War Watch; USA,UK,France,Israel-vs-Russia,China, Iran... aka WW 3

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones



Here's the deal Sancho.

Those might show numbers in uniform but it really doesn't reflect how many have actual combat experience in the past 20 years or so...

If we were to add those experienced reserves to the figures. Those countries who have combat experienced reserves would be more formidable IMO.





[edit on 18-9-2009 by SLAYER69]

I have many friends in the Navy, the fact that it is very likely we will go to war with China and Russia in the near future is not really new news for me at least.

The most prominent concern is out debt obligations to China. If China has no enemies why is it building up it's military so rapidly. Russia is unfriendly to say the least. There are many in Russia today with Cold War mentalities.

Part of the United States foreign policy has been to sabotage Russia's and China's relationship because the US fears a Russian/Chinese joint effort to take on the US.




[edit on 18-9-2009 by oconnection]

Originally posted by oconnection
Part of the United States foreign policy has been to sabotage Russia's and China's relationship because the US fears a Russian/Chinese joint effort to take on the US.

Check the history books...

Communist China and Communist Soviet Union although they weren't perfect bed buddies, we have faced that combination before.

That's nothing new.

reply to post by Sky watcher

I understood exactly what you were pointing out, but you brought NATO into it and some here would rally to that and not realize the implications of said action.

"Russia will make the same mistake again trying to invade Israel through the Beka valley. One well placed nuke will stop their advances and more will destroy them.

Russia can not afford to throw countless nukes at Israel when the U.S. could strike them at any time. They will loose so much of their army in that exchange that they will pull back and rethink things, Saving what they have left for self preservation. If they cant get their army or ICBMS into Israel then they have no other choice"

Entertaining the scenario you outlined above. I'll stick with the second paragraph here. Actually the second sentence referring to Russia's losses. I didn't once see you mention the US losses that would happen during this exchange or is this just the nuke dropped by Israel in the Beka valley? If this is the one nuke in the Beka valley are you implying that no others would be fired due to the amount of losses the Russians know they would face as the US would be pulled into this new exchange as well?

I may regret asking this other question for personal reasons but I'm not familiar with this web bot prediction. Could you elaborate on it?

reply to post by SLAYER69


Totally agreed. Your correct; the problem is I don't know how We can gauge that; exactly. I realized the other day most Vietnam vets are hitting 60 years of age, or more soon.

I know there have been a steady range of small skirmishes that the States have been involved in, but so have other countries.

I went again to the site globalfirepower.com. It looked like the US was extremely dominate in many arenas, but that was in the mechanized areas of Aircraft, and Navy.

Russia, and China excelled on the land based weaponry, and China also excelled on the patrol boat area.

Very interesting looking at all the numbers, and how they all actually to varying degrees counterbalanced. I was surprised to see North Korea ranking up as one of the biggest contenders in the World. I don't think they are friend to any particular side. I had a thread a while back discussing Russia moving their air defense missles over on their Eastern border...... The pretext was for defense against North Korea.

I did find one HUGE major concern for all US Americans. We are the largest consumer of Oil, and definitely not near the top for production. This is a critical factor, and I discussed how critical here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

In that thread I linked the Oil Chokepoints throughout the ME region, and there are a couple major points; which could cut the World oil supply down by over 40%. The Med. Sea, and Europe have been loading up on Oil for the last several months.

Here's a little from the site globalfirepower.com.

Oil consumption:

United States of America
20,800,000 bbl
China
6,930,000 bbl
Japan
5,353,000 bbl
Russia
2,916,000 bbl
Germany

Oil production

Saudi Arabia
11,000,000 bbl
Russia
9,870,000 bbl
United States of America
7,460,000 bbl
Iran
3,956,000 bbl
China
3,725,000 bbl
Canada
3,310,000 bbl

reply to post by SLAYER69


Depends on how idealistically aligned they are these days. They haven't always seen eye to eye as the take on communism in China is a bit different than the Russians take on it. Not really sure if they would stay allied based on ideology or would their national pride win out and we have a rift there.

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


Keep in mind that we have been rotating our troops in and out of both Iraq and Afghanistan over the past 8 years [ My son came back in March of this year ] not to mention the 575.000 Gulf war 1 vets. I wasn't really counting the Vietnam vets although I'm pretty sure if my father was still around and we came under attack he wouldn't think twice about picking up a weapon. I'm starting to get up there myself now.

I'd grab my rifle so would my uncles and my brothers.

It's a family thing going back a few generations.


[edit on 18-9-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by serph


And the truth is, these four countries have very little in common ideologically.

NK is Stalinist, China is Communist in name but capitalist/authoritarian in reality, Russia is a capitalist democracy, and Iran is a theocratic semi-democracy with a market economy.

Really, the ONLY thing these countries have in common is mistrust of the US, and in both the Russian and Chinese cases, that's mostly just posturing anyway.

I hate to disappoint ATS, but I don't think WW3 is exactly "around the corner"

Israel and Iran might conceivably go at it, but I suspect the US will try to stay at arms length.

And I can guarantee you nobody is going to be willing to sacrifice Beijing or Moscow to protect the Iranians from their own stupidity

[edit on 9/18/09 by xmotex]

reply to post by oconnection


Well who is behind Obama now? Ah the good ole Zbignew Brezinski who hates russia his plan is to bring russia and china into another quagmire somewhere in the world only this time it will not happen putin is not a dummy like breznew

reply to post by akoola111


China getting ready for a showdown with India across Karakoram?

Strange activities are being watched by Indian residents near the border areas across Karakoram. Peaple’s Liveration Army of China (PLA) – has engaged in construction activities across the Karakoram ranges for stationing of additional personnel and mounting cameras for monitoring Indian troop movement. In addition secret underground construction is being watched that could be positioning short range nuclear missiles against Indian Army.

reply to post by SLAYER69


that would be a short fight i think...

reply to post by SLAYER69


You, and Yours are good People. I'm glad Your boy is back. I am glad there are many American's out there like ya'll. My brides family are all hardcore generational military(mainly marine core); their also of ladino lineage, so fiesta's always turn into insults followed by huge brawls, then followed by hugs, and "I love ya' mans'

Originally posted by open_eyeballs

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones

 

Im sorry. these doomer threads get worse and worse...where is your evidence of any war talk? especially between china and russia and the U.S.?

i just want to know how they are going to create war when our militarys are conducting joint exercises...we are financially dependant on one another and our politicians have been in kahoots for decades...especially with china...

russia turned a corner long ago...you are extending and applying neo con cold war arguments that are no longer in the front of americans minds...if israel strikes iran, there may be some recourse, but to what extent? expecially if they are tactical and very limited strikes to the nuclear sites...

as long as oil continues to flow, there will be no war...sorry to dissapoint

if oil stops flowing, then i may entertain the idea...but wouldnt jump to any conclusions...who knows maybe the lame duck UN could get something done...

..ok ya..thats not gunna happen...

edit to fix reply

[edit on 18-9-2009 by open_eyeballs]

Will all of you please read this man's post I quoted. It's more realistic than what most of you are saying


All you guys are doing is looking at long starring contests that have been going on ever since high school began.


Like he said the world has never been more united against war, and we are dependent on one onother in more ways than economically. This reminds me of all the people at ATS who every day come up with an excuse to throw around " OMFG THE S*** WILL HIT THE FAN OOMMG!! " every time I log in here. And guess what, nothing hapens.

reply to post by Redneck from Hell


It was a very good post and for some would be a recommended read. And I would gladly get into that type of discussion with some one any day as it's amazing what you might learn from it.

I began posting in this thread because of the title. Knowing what I have pieced together from studies in political science, economics, news sources, independent research, and first hand experience, well lets just say that the title intrigued me. I thought it could use a little analytical breakdown as you can see from some of my post. Actually, the bulk of my post have argued against a global conflict and why it won't happen.

I find threads like these intriguing as many posts seem knee jerk in reaction to world events, which is exactly what we do not need when facing "interesting times".

reply to post by Redneck from Hell


Hi, that does have some great point's; We do live in a global economy now. The Internet is helping further that.

The posturing is still present. Now Israel is setting deadlines for an actual attack on Iran.

My food for thought on Your quoted post is what about in other World conflicts where the multinational corporations were trading, and doing business with all??? Ford, GM, General Electric?? These companies amongst others didn't stop WW 2. I think it could be argued strongly that there has always been a somewhat global economy; which has traded necessary goods, but hasn't stopped wars.

Did I answer Your question?

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


Not gonna happen with Obama in office, but that's what the teams would be in the lineup for a WWIII scenario...

Originally posted by TheCoffinman
i also dont think pakistan or india would be involved at all.. they have thier own problems and really prolly wouldnt mind sitting this war out..

India is a huge ally of Israel and relies on them for all their advanced technology, Im fairly certain they would help them out in war. You are right about the results being very harmful to the west...

Originally posted by FadeToBlack
I'm not saying lets tell them to go attack Iran's nuclear facilities, but I am saying if Israel does get attacked, what is so wrong with providing them with food, clothing, and support? I'm not saying fight their war for them, but... I don't see a problem.

I think you are dead on in policy. Humanitarian aid should always be given. Even to HAMAS and all, give them food and blankets, cash is idiotic, they will just buy weapons.

Originally posted by Sky watcher
It is just like them sickos to do something like that. You know when these people hide in Mosques and Hospitals after taking pop shots at our troops that is what they are capable of. Hell they may even claim Israel nuked them.

Um where have you been, Iranians are not taking pot shots at your troops... that would be Iraqis

Originally posted by SLAYER69
If we were to add those experienced reserves to the figures. Those countries who have combat experienced reserves would be more formidable IMO.

Have you SEEN Russias reserves?? I mean first hand? Their reserves would cruuuusssh ours and you forget, they have veterans too.

I agree with you on invading the US though, like the Japanese general said, it is impossible, there would be a rifle behind every hill!

reply to post by breakingdradles


No, you wouldn't. Israel would use their nukes quicker than anyone.

reply to post by Brainiac



Funny You'd mention that. I would actually have to agree with You. I think Obama has done a lot to deter this coming war. That being said, many People across the Net, and a few Psychics.........now more claim he will be assassinated shortly. I know Sorcha Faal aka Sorta False has presented several stories of attempted, but botched assassination attempts.

I do agree with You, but I also can totally see where the psychics, and Sorta False are coming from

Originally posted by Ridhya
Have you SEEN Russias reserves?? I mean first hand? Their reserves would cruuuusssh ours and you forget, they have veterans too.

I agree with you on invading the US though, like the Japanese general said, it is impossible, there would be a rifle behind every hill!

I agree Russia has a huge reserve of experienced veterans but not combat experienced veterans at least not in the numbers equal to the US.


[edit on 18-9-2009 by SLAYER69]