The Desperation and Dangers of the Far-Right Extreme Evangelical Sub-Culture

reply to post by uaocteaou


Democrats voted against civil rights, too. Here are the vote totals of the '64 civil rights bill:

The original House version:

* Democratic Party: 152-96 (61%-39%)
* Republican Party: 138-34 (80%-20%)

The Senate version:

* Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%-31%)
* Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)

The Senate version, voted on by the House:

* Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%-37%)
* Republican Party: 136-35 (80%-20%)

Wiki Source

It looks like that evil racist GOP are the ones that supported the civil rights bill more than the Democrats. Wait a second...

A political party not supporting some issue that you happen to agree with doesn't make them evil people. I don't think abortion is right, but I don't think that Democrats, or others, that think it's okay are some sort of blight on my country.

The rest of what you say in your post can go for both parties. They're just mirror images of each other. They just go about scaring people in different ways.

[edit on 9/17/2009 by octotom]

[edit on 9/17/2009 by octotom]

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

These are just some of the threads that discussed that Bush is the anti-christ.

Those darn left-wing fanatics. That means all left-wingers are fanatics, right? I mean, if we're going to paint with a broad brush, well, lets get to "paintin'."

Were they desparate? Are they a sub-culture? What is/has the media said about them?


__________________________________________________

If you start giving voice to those that are in any extreme group, then you give them credibility.

“I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it.”
-Clint Eastwood



[edit on 17-9-2009 by mikerussellus]

Originally posted by octotom
Yes, I did read your post. That is why I responded to it. At the end, you made an allusion to people who believe in God:

That is an analogy. Let me state it more simply: For me to try to convince the birthers that they are wrong - is like an atheist trying to convince a believer they they are wrong.

it looks a little like you're trying to equate any one that is in this "cult" to Christianity. Do you understand what I'm saying?

I am under the impression that most (not all) of the birthers are Christians. I could be wrong. But I'm not talking about Christians. I'm talking about the sub-culture of birthers. And my views, IN NO WAY, are reflective upon Christians or Christianity as a whole, any more than radical Islam is a reflection of Islam as a whole. I'm talking about a SUB-CULTURE of right wing evangelicals who are trying to oust Obama on the basis of their FAITH that he is somehow ineligible. I'm talking about "birthers".

If you wish to continue to suggest that I'm somehow equating these people to Christians, go ahead. But that is YOUR skewed perception and has nothing to do with what I'm actually saying.

I said that these people, if given concrete answers to their claims would back down. Calling them "the village idiots" and "buffons" simply isn't going to cut it if you're trying to get through to them.

THEY WILL NOT BACK DOWN. They HAVE concrete answers. They CHOOSE their FAITH (not in God, but in their Anti-Obama dogma) in the face of FACTS.

As regards the names Shaeffer used, I don't think he's trying to get through to them. He's reporting on them. He knows that it's useless to try to get through to them. And I'm realizing this myself.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
@ the OP

Wow . . . that is a very ignorant post, and an ignorant source, for that matter.

That is what the OP does all the time.

There are people who want to dismiss all the evidence, and facts which are presented to them, even if they come from LEFTWING SOURCES....

And then these sort of people like to label, and group all Republicans as "fanatic bible thumpers"...

Not to mention that these same people, as this thread is evidence of, try to label all Americans who question President Obama policies, or even his eligibility as 'fanatical bible thumpers"...

These people have no rational, and much less intelligent argument to make, hence they sensationalize, insult, and belittle those who can see beyond the lies, and consololidation of power that the Obama administration has been after since day one.

But hey, if these sort of people like to label even their own leftwing groups as "RIGHTWING EXTREMISTS", it goes to show how weak their argument really is.

Sometimes I get the feeling the OP is JANET NAPOLITANO HERSELF....

[edit on 17-9-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by mikerussellus


Of course people on ATS are going to say that various people are the Antichrist. It's ATS. A conspiracy-based community. ATS does not accurately represent the demographics of the US as a whole. If we went on a dog board, we'd see very few people talking about who is the Antichrist this week and many more talking about what their dog's poop looks like.

I'm talking about 1/3 of conservatives! Not a few conspiracy theorists on ATS.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Where do you get 1/3rd of conservatives from?

As a conservative, I take offense. My religious beliefs are my own. My personal beliefs are my own as well.

I'd like to think any position I take is based on fact, not hope and change, or any other ideological fluff.



[edit on 17-9-2009 by mikerussellus]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

That is an analogy. Let me state it more simply: For me to try to convince the birthers that they are wrong - is like an atheist trying to convince a believer they they are wrong.

Gah. I know that it was an analogy. That is why I used the same analogy in my response. The keyword was my use of "like".

I am under the impression that most (not all) of the birthers are Christians. I could be wrong. But I'm not talking about Christians. I'm talking about the sub-culture of birthers. And my views, IN NO WAY, are reflective upon Christians or Christianity as a whole, any more than radical Islam is a reflection of Islam as a whole. I'm talking about a SUB-CULTURE of right wing evangelicals who are trying to oust Obama on the basis of their FAITH that he is somehow ineligible. I'm talking about "birthers".

You realize that evangelicals are Christians, right? So it is simply not possible to say that you're talking about Evangelicals but not Christians. Your best bet in this subject is to simply leave Christians of any sort out of the birther discussion. It's not possible to know if the majority of those in the birther movement are Evangelical Christians. Saying that they are is just speculation.

[edit on 9/17/2009 by octotom]

Pretty much sums up the right wing position nowadays.

reply to post by mikerussellus

Where do you get 1/3rd of conservatives from?

The OP got 1/3 from a poll of New Jersey conservatives. Apparently, New Jersey conservatives are a good cross section of the the rest of the nation.

reply to post by octotom


You're right. I'm sure the percentage of Conservatives in Texas and Utah who think Obama is the anti-Christ is much lower.

Hmmmmm....

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
@ the OP

Wow . . . that is a very ignorant post, and an ignorant source, for that matter.

And then these sort of people like to label, and group all Republicans as "fanatic bible thumpers"...

Not to mention that these same people, as this thread is evidence of, try to label all Americans who question President Obama policies, or even his eligibility as 'fanatical bible thumpers"...

These people have no rational, and much less intelligent argument to make, hence they sensationalize, insult, and belittle those who can see beyond the lies, and consololidation of power that the Obama administration has been after since day one.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

I'm one of these people - I have no problem with questioning, but when there is a clear pattern of fear based xenophobic propaganda I begin to question motive...

So far Obama is a Muslim, foreigner, homosexual, fascist, communist, Zionist, anti christ says the rhetoric. Funny enough Obama seems to be small town Americas favorite things all rolled into one. Talk about consolidation kettle

reply to post by Avenginggecko

You're right. I'm sure the percentage of Conservatives in Texas and Utah who think Obama is the anti-Christ is much lower.

Just because someone is conservative doesn't mean they're Christian! (Antichrist is a Christian idea, remember.) So if you did a poll in Texas, which is larger than New Jersey, of conservatives, the percentage of conservatives that think Obama is the Antichrist could be smaller.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


The extreme end of either party is really only about 10% (if that) if we are to look to research in personalities and temperaments as the base. What someone identifies with in a poll does not necessarily prove their inclinations and temperament in general. Furthermore, be it Rayid, Kiersey, Myers-Briggs there is a lot more to identifying and distinguishing type than a political poll.

Extremist types, by their very definition, are louder, more publicly vocal, and aggressive in their displays than other types. They fit the "squeaky wheel gets the grease" pattern. Everyone on this website, including the OP, has some manifestation of the extreme to continue to post and debate in a public forum with strangers.

Extremism cannot be associated with a party or religion. The Bolsheviks were radical, left-leaning atheists and you would be hard-pressed to find someone more extreme than VI Lenin.

PETA is extreme. Greenpeace is extreme. Move On (ask Cindy Sheehan) was extreme. Pax Christi--gulps--we can be extreme.

Extremism has a place in society, whether we choose to acknowledge it or not. Most personalities need the extremists to motivate them towards something. To the atheists I say: it is evolutionary. To the Christians I say: God has a plan.

I am grateful to extremists even if I don't agree with them.

reply to post by octotom


Thanks.

New Jersey. hffmmp.

So, how many liberals in New Jersey think Obama is the second coming?

Should we ignore the other side of the coin?

As for Texas, since I've spent a couple of years there, most would think Obama is a dumba##, and leave it at that.

reply to post by octotom


Utah?

We're just too damn weird to be included in any poll here.

Originally posted by uaocteaou
Fear and loathing in Washington, DC.....

The GOP::

Voted against Social Security
Voted against medicare
Voted against civil rights

Yes they voted against social security, it's nearly 20 trillion in debt. You can own that.

Yes they didn't like medicare, it's over 20 trillion in debt, own that one also

The GOP was created by anti-slavery activists, and it's first president elected, was Abraham Lincoln. Which is probably why Martin Luther King was a Republican.

Originally posted by uaocteaou
It's a sad day, a sad day when people choose to believe lies and deny the truth because it fits their personal prejudices and hatred.

Yes it is, I feel very sad for you.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by aravoth]

[edit on 17-9-2009 by aravoth]

reply to post by octotom


So you're saying that Texas is more secular than New Jersey?

Have you been to Texas?

Anyway, being a native Texan, I believe my point still stands rather well.

This forum is going to implode.

To much hate.

watch

Originally posted by mental modulator
I'm one of these people - I have no problem with questioning, but when there is a clear pattern of fear based xenophobic propaganda I begin to question motive...

So far Obama is a Muslim, foreigner, homosexual, fascist, communist, Zionist, anti christ says the rhetoric. Funny enough Obama seems to be small town Americas favorite things all rolled into one. Talk about consolidation kettle

Having grown up in a big city and settled in a small town I can tell you that you will see more racism, homophobia, and other human ugliness when people are stuffed closer together in cities. I could point to behavioral studies as to why proximity causes tension, if you'd like.

Please don't generalize unless its in a happy way.

I can't believe that you people are defending something that is very bad for the country as a whole.

You either deny the facts because, "well the left did it against Bush too", or you just deny the facts because it's easier to believe a lie and jump on the bandwagon, sure.... Deny Ignorance.

In the few Months that he has been President, not over 8 years, but in 8 Months.....

Obama is a Nazi
a Commie
a socialist
the anti-christ
Not a citizen
is a racist
not a christian
wants to kill old people
wants to give benefits to illegals
wants abortions in every household
hates white people
hangs around with terrorists
et al.

We see people with loaded weapons going to civic and political venues, people calling him the antichrist and screaming that he's not an American.

WTF good can you expect to come from this..?

Nothing good is going to come from the LIES and misinformation coming from the far right lunatics and the special interest funding, NOTHING!

I'm sure you believe that everything will just settle down on it's own..? Or you'll scare Obama out of office..? Not likely either.

It's only going to get worse, because Fox news has no responsibility,(remember tiller the baby killer), they're only in it for the ratings, advertisers, MONEY. Special interests who are funding this won't stop, because they're in it only for less corporate regulation, just the MONEY.

So they will continue to distort the truth, tell outright lies and spoon feed people until some PEOPLE go way across the line of "demonstration", and some people will get hurt.

And when the government has no choice but to clamp down on it, you will scream about your personal freedoms being taken away...... Give me a break.

You people defending this junk have no right to tell anyone else "don't be sheeple", or to tell anyone else to "deny ignorance"... You are blowing it, and you either can't see it, or you just don't care.