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Freemasons Facts or Fiction?

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posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by tempest501
reply to post by JoshNorton
 


Thank you for your contributions so far, it is def giving me food for thought. Especially about researching on your own or in a group. Very insightful.

Thank everyone for contributing to this thread by the way its really helpful.

Peace


De nada. An open mind is a terrible thing to waste.

If Freemasons are the global elite controlling the world, why is it that I'm going to be shifting 3 cubic yards of triple-mix topsoil that just got dumped in my driveway?




posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


You like word play don't you mate.

You know exactly what is being said to you, but like everyone with a hidden agenda or something to hide, you go through the motions of answering but use word play and misdirection to hide whatever it is you wish to keep hidden.

You're answers are exactly like your dark organisation it seems. Diversionary, contradictory, and full inconsistencies.

If you really believe what you say in your heart of hearts, why not answer the questions fully and honestly, without the snide and slippery retorts?

Come to that, do you also claim that a lie by omission is not a lie?



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by Dark Ghost
The biggest thing working against the reputation of Freemasons is the element of secrecy. I do not know much about them, but I have heard people talking about them and you get all those rumours and stuff.


It's about common sense. If you really want to believe the out-there tripe that gets passed around as 'truth' about Freemasonry, can you really say that there's anything that will disabuse you of that belief? There'll always be something, some further proof required no matter how forthcoming a Mason might be.


Originally posted by Dark Ghost
I would guess most people that view them as a negative movement probably do so because of the secrecy side of the movement. Although, you do hear them refute with "NOT a secret society, but a society with secrets."

How far down the rabbit-hole does one need to travel in order to discover what these secrets are?


The conspiracy theorist rabbit hole is infinitely deep and infinitely wide. There is no way to disabuse every anti-Mason from a cherished belief if he/she wants to hold onto it. Just a fact of life that Masons have to accept.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by spikey
 


you will have to be a bit more specific. I can't see what you are referring to. Fitz has answered and commented on a few things in this thread. What do you want to know? Just ask it.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


You like word play don't you mate.


Not especially. I just toasted your AA analogy (as did JoshNorton [IIRC])


Originally posted by spikey
You know exactly what is being said to you, but like everyone with a hidden agenda or something to hide, you go through the motions of answering but use word play and misdirection to hide whatever it is you wish to keep hidden.


The words were as plain as day. If you want to believe there was misdirection, be my guest. I'll let other posters who don't have a dog in this fight be their own judges of who's being straightforward.


Originally posted by spikey
You're answers are exactly like your dark organisation it seems. Diversionary, contradictory, and full inconsistencies.


My answers are direct and plain. If you see diversion, contradiction and inconsistency, then that's because your world view (or Masonic view) demands it. That your 'truth'; that does not make it reality.


Originally posted by spikey
If you really believe what you say in your heart of hearts, why not answer the questions fully and honestly, without the snide and slippery retorts?


Done and done. You are welcome to see it as you choose to.


Originally posted by spikey
Come to that, do you also claim that a lie by omission is not a lie?


A lack of confirmation is not a lie. I made a promise not to divulge Masonic secrets and I haven't and won't. That is not to say that others haven't or won't again. But that speaks to their characters and not mine. I'm a man of my word and take to heart the maxims of Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth.

Don't like that? I'm sorry for you then.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by spikey
You know exactly what is being said to you, but like everyone with a hidden agenda or something to hide, you go through the motions of answering but use word play and misdirection to hide whatever it is you wish to keep hidden.


Ask direct questions. Anything you want to know.

Direct questions will get direct answers.

Try us!



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon

A lack of confirmation is not a lie. I made a promise not to divulge Masonic secrets and I haven't and won't.


Maybe is an honest answer? No matter how you twist it,
it's dishonest.

I see no honor in that whatsoever.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by kingswillquiver
 


Please tell us your Bank and ATS login and password.
I assume that you will not refuse, since, by your own admission, that would lack honor, and is dishonest.

Then feel free to ask me my Masonic passwords.
I will refuse, since keeping my oath is my definition of the honorable thing to do.





[edit on 17/9/2009 by Saurus]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
No. If you don't have a belief in a Supreme Being, you aren't a candidate for Regular Masonry.


I would just like to add to this...

You don't need to believe the bible, and you don't even need to believe in the Christian God to become a Freemason.

You must just believe in A Supreme Being.


But what if say, like myself, your heart wants to believe in a God/Supreme Being but your brain is telling you it doesn't make sense. Would that disqualify you?

For me, personally I do have a passion for looking into this as I desperately want my heart to be right if that makes sense.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by kingswillquiver
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

A lack of confirmation is not a lie. I made a promise not to divulge Masonic secrets and I haven't and won't.


Maybe is an honest answer? No matter how you twist it,
it's dishonest.

I see no honor in that whatsoever.


Your train of logic is lost on me. What Mason in this thread has said that they'd answer "maybe" if asked a question that required divulging a Masonic secret? The responses I've seen have been "I can't answer that" (or some variation thereof.

I (and other real Masons) made promises not to divulge the secrets entrusted to our care. It's a test of personal character because anybody can Google Masonic ritual if they're that interested. Masonic ritual has been available to the general public for pushing three centuries; it isn't like the Internet was necessary for that.

If keeping your word as your bond strikes you as dishonourable, then that speaks more to you character than mine.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by tempest501

But what if say, like myself, your heart wants to believe in a God/Supreme Being but your brain is telling you it doesn't make sense. Would that disqualify you?


Reconcile that question for yourself and your answer directs your path vis a vis joining Masonry. If you can't honestly affirm a belief in a Supreme Being, you can't honestly become a Mason. Of course, the operative word here is "honestly".


Originally posted by tempest501
For me, personally I do have a passion for looking into this as I desperately want my heart to be right if that makes sense.


Follow your path to its personal conclusion. Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth can be exercised outside the dictum of the Lodge (or a particular religion for that matter). If you can do these things for the sake of doing them, you have accomplished much of what it means to be a Mason and society will have been well-served.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by tempest501


But what if say, like myself, your heart wants to believe in a God/Supreme Being but your brain is telling you it doesn't make sense. Would that disqualify you?

For me, personally I do have a passion for looking into this as I desperately want my heart to be right if that makes sense.


I would say something cheesy here like follow your heart, or some such stuff, but in reality, you will eventually find your truth. Weather it be by a divine intervention, or just an epiphany. Nobody can tell you what to believe. I can tell you that you won't find the answer to that question inside masonry.(IMHO) You will have to have determined that before you go that direction is you so choose. I can't see how anyone can question God after seeing one of you children being born. the miracle of birth is just that. That is my truth. As long as you listen with attentive ears, and look with attentive eyes, you will find your answer.

edit to fix bad typing.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by network dude]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by tempest501

But what if say, like myself, your heart wants to believe in a God/Supreme Being but your brain is telling you it doesn't make sense. Would that disqualify you?

For me, personally I do have a passion for looking into this as I desperately want my heart to be right if that makes sense.


Freemasonry urges you to explore this type of question with vigor, and provides an environment where you will meet people from all types of religions - Christians, Wiccans, Muslims, Pagans, Jews.

In my experience, being in such an environment forces you to think about the nature of your maker. Perhaps you will find something common to all those religions, and establish your own idea of the nature of Supreme Being.

Of the all the Masons I know (with the exception of Roark on this site), Freemasonry has made Masons' own beliefs much stronger, and removed doubt where it existed.

If, like Roark, you find that it does not help, you are free to leave.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by spikey
You know exactly what is being said to you, but like everyone with a hidden agenda or something to hide, you go through the motions of answering but use word play and misdirection to hide whatever it is you wish to keep hidden.


Ask direct questions. Anything you want to know.

Direct questions will get direct answers.

Try us!


Are there any sexual rituals in Masonry?



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by kingswillquiver

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by spikey
You know exactly what is being said to you, but like everyone with a hidden agenda or something to hide, you go through the motions of answering but use word play and misdirection to hide whatever it is you wish to keep hidden.


Ask direct questions. Anything you want to know.

Direct questions will get direct answers.

Try us!


Are there any sexual rituals in Masonry?


Eat at home. Keeps the wives happy.

Of course, certainly nothing that you couldn't have learned from watching Oprah or Jerry Springer.

HTH
Fitz



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


So, is that a yes or a no?



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by kingswillquiver
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


So, is that a yes or a no?


That was the sum total of any "sexual ritual" in Masonry. And truth be told, that's more of a banquet room message than lodge room. Like I said, available from Oprah, Jerry or Montel 5 days a week

[edit on 17-9-2009 by Fitzgibbon]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by kingswillquiver


So, is that a yes or a no?


There are no sexual rituals in Masonry.

Most Masonic rituals are initiation ceremonies, the purpose of which is to teach the candidate lessons in morality, ethics, and philosophy by means of symbols and allegories. Other rituals, which are usually public, concern things like funeral rites and celebrations of important days in Masonic history.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by kingswillquiver

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by spikey
You know exactly what is being said to you, but like everyone with a hidden agenda or something to hide, you go through the motions of answering but use word play and misdirection to hide whatever it is you wish to keep hidden.


Ask direct questions. Anything you want to know.

Direct questions will get direct answers.

Try us!


Are there any sexual rituals in Masonry?


This did make me chuckle, when I started the thread i never would have guessed that kind of question would pop up lol.

People really are wonderful arent they, you never know where a smile is going to come from.

Peace



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by Saurus


Freemasonry urges you to explore this type of question with vigor, and provides an environment where you will meet people from all types of religions - Christians, Wiccans, Muslims, Pagans, Jews.

In my experience, being in such an environment forces you to think about the nature of your maker. Perhaps you will find something common to all those religions, and establish your own idea of the nature of Supreme Being.

Of the all the Masons I know (with the exception of Roark on this site), Freemasonry has made Masons' own beliefs much stronger, and removed doubt where it existed.

If, like Roark, you find that it does not help, you are free to leave.


Its funny because I have looked to many religeon over the last 8 years (due to the death of someone very close to me). I have seen many similarities and you trace back certain aspects of religeons etc. The last church I belonged to I really didnt like because the minute I would start to question (which I did vigoursly after this death) they would tell me to be quiet and God should not be questioned and that I should just blindly have faith.

Like I say my heart wants to believe there is a god. I want to find the knowledge to , hopefully, marry my heart with my head if that makes sense.

Asides from that this whole topic completely fascinates me.



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