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Freemasons Facts or Fiction?

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posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 07:08 AM
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Hi Guys,

Wonder if you can help me with something. I guess you would class me as awake since joining this site last year. My eye have been opened to many things. As such I have heard two sides to the whole Freemason subject. The goodwilled image and the devil worship hang a noose reound your neck type image.

I am believing either way at this point but the whole subject of Freemasonary facinates me. I really could not say why but it does.

I have heard/read alot of disturbing things and seen and heard alot about the great charity work Freemasons seem to do. The latter is really awesome by the way since there is not enough people trying to put this world right.

If there are any Mason out there that can give me there side I would love to hear it or if anyone has a take on this subject.

I would liek to point out that I am not trying to offend anyone here I am just insanely curious.

Peace to all




posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 07:22 AM
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reply to post by tempest501
 


The Devil-worshipping, baby-eating, goat-riding stories are just that; stories, products of a fevered imagination (typically with an agenda).

Freemasons are men of good character of various religious denominations who come together as a group to improve themselves and be of greater utility to themselves, their families and society in general.

HTH
Fitz



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 07:26 AM
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i think all these stories though come from the past, like for example we all know how the church used to operate in mediavel times, torturing kiling etc etc...maybe freemasons used to be bad in the past...still dont expect any mason to post here since they vow for serecy



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 07:38 AM
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If there is anything nefarious going on, it is not with the rank and file members, IMHO.

My grandfather was a Mason and a Shriner and was one of the most honorable men I have ever known. He was very active in the community, the Rotary, and gave time and money to various charities. I know several Masons that attend the church I used to go to and they are good men.

While I understand the suspicion and the questionable roots of the organization, today it is just a networking tool for business men. My opinion.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by heineken
still dont expect any mason to post here since they vow for serecy
Why not? There are more than a dozen of us who post here regularly. The only secrets are passwords and handshakes... "modes of recognition", but those, along with every other part of the ritual, were made public more than 200 years ago. If you read a ritual online, and ask a Mason here, "Is the password of this degree X?", even though the ritual has been exposed, a Mason is on his honor not to divulge that word. So you probably won't get a yes or a no. Instead you'll hear "I can't tell you that." (Note, I've never seen a Mason here lie and intentionally tell someone they were wrong when they were in fact right. We consider ourselves men of principle, and such lies are beneath us, regardless of how often we may be accused of them.)

Really the whole baby-eating, child sacrifice, taking over the world stuff is a result of paranoia and human nature... people fear that which they don't know. Masonry has closed doors, so therefore there are people who become suspicious. Not really our problem. Movie theaters don't have windows either, but there are still plenty of ways to find out what's in the movie without going to see it. You just won't enjoy all the nuances without experiencing it first hand yourself.

[edit on 9/17/2009 by JoshNorton]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by heineken
i think all these stories though come from the past, like for example we all know how the church used to operate in mediavel times, torturing kiling etc etc...maybe freemasons used to be bad in the past...still dont expect any mason to post here since they vow for serecy


So in a sense the only way to find out is by joining. Guess I will have to rely on google just so hard to find something genuine.

Wonder if they allow people to join who are not really sure on the whole God thing. I would imagine there are many (I myself am one) that dont really believe in the Bible stories but want to believe in God if that makes sense. I mean for example I want there to be a higher power in my heart but my brain tell me it makes no sense.

I digress, sorry for that.

Lets hope google and fix my curiousity, the history and the symbology is just so fascinating. The opportunity to learn about that kind of subject along side the betterment of people seem like a good path to take. Its the horror stories that dont seem to fit with that image which is what is so confusing.

On one hand you hear about the charity work etc but on the other a friend of mine said they have to wear a noose for initiation and stuff.

Very intresting none the less.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 07:49 AM
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I don't know. Taking an oath can be dangerous.

It sets one up to have to lie later.

For example, if someone asked a Mason about
a secret ritual, and they were correct, the Mason
would have to lie to fulfill the oath.

After all, it's a society with secrets, right?

Once a lie is told to protect an oath, one should
expect darkness ahead.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by tempest501
Wonder if they allow people to join who are not really sure on the whole God thing. I would imagine there are many (I myself am one) that dont really believe in the Bible stories but want to believe in God if that makes sense. I mean for example I want there to be a higher power in my heart but my brain tell me it makes no sense.


I for one do not take the Bibel stories as literal but believe in God. This is not an issue if you wanted to join. The Bible teaches moral and spiritual lessons, just as many other sacred volumes, it is whether you apply those lessons which is important.


...a friend of mine said they have to wear a noose for initiation and stuff.


It is called a cable-tow and it has a very symbolic meaning.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by kingswillquiver
For example, if someone asked a Mason about
a secret ritual, and they were correct, the Mason
would have to lie to fulfill the oath.


What about saying, "Sorry, but I can not answer that for you?"

Making this into an either/or is intellectually dishonest.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by kingswillquiver
I don't know. Taking an oath can be dangerous.

It sets one up to have to lie later.

For example, if someone asked a Mason about
a secret ritual, and they were correct, the Mason
would have to lie to fulfill the oath.

After all, it's a society with secrets, right?

Once a lie is told to protect an oath, one should
expect darkness ahead.


Wise words and I agree however maybe a refusal to answer?

[edit on 17-9-2009 by tempest501]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by tempest501
Wonder if they allow people to join who are not really sure on the whole God thing. I would imagine there are many (I myself am one) that dont really believe in the Bible stories but want to believe in God if that makes sense. I mean for example I want there to be a higher power in my heart but my brain tell me it makes no sense.


I for one do not take the Bibel stories as literal but believe in God. This is not an issue if you wanted to join. The Bible teaches moral and spiritual lessons, just as many other sacred volumes, it is whether you apply those lessons which is important.


...a friend of mine said they have to wear a noose for initiation and stuff.


It is called a cable-tow and it has a very symbolic meaning.


Yea def I think the words and teaching of Jesus (whether it happened or not) have very godd and decent lessons. I have read the bible a few times and was born in a catholic family. There is almost certainly good to be learned in the teachings and principles



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by kingswillquiver
 


I have been a mason for over three years. And I have yet to have to lie about anything to fulfill my obligation. As has been said, there are things I can't tell you, but I have seen everything that is supposed to be secret on the net. So the secrets are not all that secret. We are just attempting to keep the secrets to prove to ourselves that we are in fact honorable. I can equate it to golf. You could lie about your score, but in the end, you are playing against yourself, so who are you cheating?



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:05 AM
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Mankind's goodness is perpetuated with truth.

That's why people meet in groups like AA to
solve their personal problems.

Once the truth is out, then all minds can
work on solving the problem.

Secrecy is abhorrent, and will eventually
lead one to sorrow and misery.

Diverting the truth is still a lie.

Destruction in the face of truth,
is much better than self preservation
in the darkness of secrecy.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by kingswillquiver
Diverting the truth is still a lie.


So if a person walked up and asked you for your Mother's maiden name anf your Social Security number would you give it to them or would you say that it is none of their business?

I am curious to see how your absolutism works in this regard.



[edit on 17-9-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:11 AM
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reply to post by tempest501
 


your situation sounds a bit like mine. I was brought up Catholic and ended up a bit disillusioned with "the church" as a whole. I felt it became more about building a bigger building, and making more money, than it was about bringing people closer to God. Church isn't supposed to be a business. I didn't give up on God, just the people who exploit him. I don't even think they are doing it on purpose, it just seems to have become the norm.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by tempest501
Lets hope google and fix my curiousity, the history and the symbology is just so fascinating.
You might start here... it's a nice collection of many of the historical texts.


The opportunity to learn about that kind of subject along side the betterment of people seem like a good path to take.
I personally find it better to learn among other people, as we each interpret things our own ways, through the lenses of our own lives & experiences. You could try to understand it all as a solitary researcher, but ultimately, you'd have nothing against with to measure its accuracy.


Its the horror stories that dont seem to fit with that image which is what is so confusing.
You can live your whole life thinking the best of people, or the worst of people, each without proof. But why would you want to go through life filled with hatred or mistrust when it is unfounded? I don't begrudge people who have personal beefs based on their own experiences, but if you take some of the crap that's out on the internet and just accept it as truth without questioning the motives of those who spew it, then you'd just be coming to the matter with your mind already made up. There's no teaching such people, because they're already set with their opinions and no amount of truth can persuade them otherwise.


On one hand you hear about the charity work etc but on the other a friend of mine said they have to wear a noose for initiation and stuff.
It's a rope, a cable-tow, as Augustus mentioned. It's not tied, and yes, it has a symbolic meaning in the ritual. There are a LOT of symbols in Masonry. It's small minded to think of any of them as singularly evil.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by heineken
i think all these stories though come from the past, like for example we all know how the church used to operate in mediavel times, torturing kiling etc etc...maybe freemasons used to be bad in the past...still dont expect any mason to post here since they vow for serecy


From my understanding, masonry has not changed much from it's origin. People and the times have changed, but the idea masonry was founded upon is that of brotherly love, charity, and honor. I don't see how any of that could be bad. Bad people yes, but not the group as a whole. And our secrets are only a test for ourselves. Everything I have held secret in regard to masonry, I have seen outside of the lodge.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by kingswillquiver
Mankind's goodness is perpetuated with truth.

That's why people meet in groups like AA to
solve their personal problems.

Once the truth is out, then all minds can
work on solving the problem.
And yet AA members don't use their last names in meetings... membership rosters or records of attendance are secret and protected by law (I believe)... etc. (There was actually a "Is AA a secret society?" thread here a few years back.)

[edit on 9/17/2009 by JoshNorton]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Yes, I have given out my SSN and mothers maiden name thousands of times through the years.

But you do have a good point. If everyone used absolute truth, things like social security numbers would be non-existent.

But with societies, governments, corporations with secrets, a perfect freedom is not possible, and is blocking those deserving of a perfect freedom from getting to it.

Only through truth, can freedom prevail.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by heineken
i think all these stories though come from the past,..[snip]


Oh they're from the past alright. Still trace their origin to the machinations of a fevered imagination of some non-never-been-Mason but definitely from the past

[edit on 17-9-2009 by Fitzgibbon]



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