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The economy requires socialized participation to be healthy and so does Healthcare

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posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 09:54 PM
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During our worst economic times, the solution is more participation by everyone.

The more participation in the economy, the stronger it is. The least participation, or money going into the system, the least gets spread around and the weaker the economy becomes.

The same is true for Healthcare. The more participation we have have in the system, the stronger that system will be.

Merely mandating coverage however is not going to solve the problem. It's like mandating participation in the economy. You have to provide incentives. No co-pays, comprehensive coverage and the deprecation of the phrase "prior-condition" are the incentives of the the Public option in healthcare.

Mandating healthcare plus providing a public option provides two things... one a requirement for participation in some form, and two an available public option for those who can't afford more expensive versions of health care. This solves the problem of participation in the system and enables access to lower wage earners or entrepreneurs starting new businesses. The cost of healthcare is one of the biggest issues limiting new business starts.


So as you can see, if we apply the same rules to healthcare as we do to the economy in general, we will have a much better system overall.




posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:12 PM
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Explain to me exactly how socializing anything works.

When you run a business you have to cut out all things that are not cost effective. Having too large of a management component means your production component has to be that much more effective or you have to minimize the expense by keeping wages low. Sound familiar.

Now trying to say that in a larger system, these basic principles are not relevent is absolutely idiotic. The larger the system, actually you need to have less management otherwise the system breaks down. Sound familiar? USSR USSA.

Smaller self reliant States is the correct way to go. But this is the very reason why it only took weeks after joining that I made you a foe. I need to change you from the DARK SIDE.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


I completely agree!!!
Federal government should be on the sidelines while State governments runs their respective shows.
Federal government was meant to be the glue that holds it all together, State government should be calling the shots.

State sovereignty>National sovereignty

Unless all of those history and government classes were wrong.....



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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Sorry, I have to go with endisnighe here. Induviduality is what make humanity so special in the universe. We create out of unbrindled freedom. Socialism has never nutured that. Course I think the current system is too confirmist, so I am probably a bit biased.

Humans gain knowledge faster in tight groups an the more input the better. That's fine, but when you try to start imposing social and moral boundaries on these groups, our human nature of dissecting everything to the minutestr particle makes us into moralists who start trying to categorize and judge everything we come across.

We simply work better in smaller units. Globalism would be great if we were off world and the smallest effective unit of measure was a planet, but we *aren't* offworld, well at least to public knowledge, and until we are, group identity really won't work too well.

Maybe in a few hundred years (assuming we don't reset back to the stone age), we'll be ready to accept a planetary identity among many planets, but for now, the only way I feel we can continue to grow is to retain our induvidualism, even to the point of rejecting a gloablist economy.

*sigh* I hope this makes sense... I've had too many Cherry Bombs tonight *grin*



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by mpriebe81
reply to post by endisnighe
 


I completely agree!!!
Federal government should be on the sidelines while State governments runs their respective shows.
Federal government was meant to be the glue that holds it all together, State government should be calling the shots.

State sovereignty>National sovereignty

Unless all of those history and government classes were wrong.....


I would agree with you 99% of the time.

The other 1% would be when the States wanted to maintain segregation and the Supreme court stepped in.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Mhhmm yes, I see your point there. The 'States might do something crazy with their newfound power and try to go back to slavery, a very keen insight indeed.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 11:01 PM
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Deleted

[edit on 16-9-2009 by infolurker]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Have I moved you from the Dark Side?

Yes Hunka a central gov is necessary, but the states do have a right to socialize things. That is alright. Because it is a smaller unit gov which can be changed if the citizens want to change it. Also with a choice of moving to another state. That is exactly my argument with almost all of our countries direction. Centralization of law and power. That is what leads to tyranny. Liberal or Socialist view are not evil. They actually can work in smaller countries or states. But to centralize it is evil, because you have no recourse. Once it is done, their is no chance to change it. Look at my current signature. There has not been one change in policy since the centralization of power had begun approximately 100 years ago.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by mpriebe81
reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Mhhmm yes, I see your point there. The 'States might do something crazy with their newfound power and try to go back to slavery, a very keen insight indeed.


No I'm just saying that states rights don't work for freedom in all scenarios. Just 99% of them.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Have I moved you from the Dark Side?

Yes Hunka a central gov is necessary, but the states do have a right to socialize things. That is alright. Because it is a smaller unit gov which can be changed if the citizens want to change it. Also with a choice of moving to another state. That is exactly my argument with almost all of our countries direction. Centralization of law and power. That is what leads to tyranny. Liberal or Socialist view are not evil. They actually can work in smaller countries or states. But to centralize it is evil, because you have no recourse. Once it is done, their is no chance to change it. Look at my current signature. There has not been one change in policy since the centralization of power had begun approximately 100 years ago.


I would really like to hear more conservative representatives espousing this. They would get a lot of Liberals on their side I would believe.

I completely see the merit in doing this on a state level. I think it should be mandated... but left up to the states on how to implement it. Kinda like child support is... The Fed gov mandates that each state must have guidelines on how to determine child support... but it doesn't say what those guidelines should be,



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Still fighting the fight for Obama I see, you’re like a pusher for Obama and his policies imo.

This healthcare fiasco I think will pass because the dems will ram it threw the house and than we will see if your right here. I can't help but wonder thoe the us military has healthcare its a bit like what the public option would be minus the co pays unless of course you have to go off post to get medication because your pharmacy on post don't carry it. still I digress I have a hematoma on my finger and as we don't have a dermatologist on post I had to wate 4 weeks for a referral than I had to make the appointment for the telederm place on post which took another 2 weeks than they took the picture of it and sent it to a specialist, than I hade to wate 1 month to get what he thought it was back than after that it was 3 weeks to find out what it was than another 2 weeks to get the thing removed.

And that was a simple procedure. I think all of this is going to end up a fiasco. But that is just me so you sir keep on fighting that fight for the man.


[edit on 17-9-2009 by ashnomadonte]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by ashnomadonte
 


I never had that experience in the Navy. But then again, I was stationed at NAS Norfolk, and Portsmouth Naval Hospital was right down the road.

All of my medical experiences in the Navy were rather expeditious actually. Now had I had a situation afloat, that would have been a different scenario.

What post were you stationed at which gave you such problems? Was it remote? Not near a hospital like PNH?



[edit on 17-9-2009 by HunkaHunka]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 01:27 AM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Fort Leavenworth.

And first off let me say thank you for your service!
Secondly I did not mention that we do not have a hospital on post as the ER was taken out we have to rely on the off post community hospitals for that. The medical care here is run off appointment only and if you fail to make one they refuse to see you no matter what yes I say again no matter what. I have been refused medical care because I did not have an appointment. I tried to explain that it was not my intention to dislocate my knee as I had however I was in a lot of pain so my battle had to translate the germen I was speaking for her.
It is funny how we revert back to our native tongue when in copious amounts of pain no? I think it is just this post and it's made me jaded because of my experience here. When I was stationed in gitmo my health care was the best I had ever received in the army ever love those Navy doctors!



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