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International treaty gives foreign troops identity of American gun owners

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posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 09:48 PM
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People believed all the claims that President Obama will never go after our Second Amendment right, but in fact he has made calls to ratify an international treaty, CIFTA, which "calls for a regime of gun control never seen in the United States, creating a gun registration system which will be open to international sharing." But the treaty is not only to control small arms, but also for "ammunition, explosives and other related materials." Offenders of this treaty will be prosecuted under treaty law and they would be elegible for extradition.

Ex-President Clinton signed the treaty in 1997, but it was never ratified by the Senate. Now President Obama wants to make this treaty a priority, and for the Senate, which is mayorily Democrat, to ratify it.

In the following link you will find a video, from no other than CNN, which corroborates the information above.

wearechangecoloradosprings.org...

[edit on 16-9-2009 by ElectricUniverse]




posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


I've heard this before. I'm pretty sure nothing came of it. Are you aware of any recent action?

This treaty is very much useless. The rifles used by the thugs in Mexico are not from America. Maybe their hand guns are, but not rifles.

It's pointless anyways, they can already track down the original purchaser and have been doing so through the US Govt. for some time.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:03 PM
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Scary indeed...

Hopefully this will be shot down in the Senate, this idea is rediculous and if Obama thought people had it out for him with his healthcare bill he has no idea what opposition he would run into with this.

Things are looking like they may be heating up a little....



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:09 PM
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Can you say revolution?


Get some!



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:15 PM
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If I remember correctly this very same treaty was signed by Clinton. But the congress was smart enough not to ratify it at that time.

But of course we have the House of Pelosi now and I think this is the last piece of the pie.

S&F



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
If I remember correctly this very same treaty was signed by Clinton. But the congress was smart enough not to ratify it at that time.

But of course we have the House of Pelosi now and I think this is the last piece of the pie.

S&F


These sort of treaties do not need Congress approval, only the President and the Senate, which in itself is another way to circumvent U.S. law. This treaty will affect all Americans, and Congress has no say on the matter.

Remember that President Obama has also been confirmating people who are gun control advocates, including Sotomayor, who even has ruled out against Americans having "nunchakus at home",
and she believes like so many other gun control freaks that only the police, and the military should have weapons, and she also believes the Second Amendment has made it illegal for Americans to own firearms...


As for anything new regarding this. This news is from April of this year, but I looked for the video in the forums and couldn't find it, apart from Sotomayor being confirmed, who also would love for this treaty to be ratified, I haven't heard anything else. Which means President Obama is still wanting for the Senate to ratify this treaty.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 05:32 AM
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Here's the text of the treaty:

www.state.gov...

I see a lot about monitoring how firearms are manufactured and sold, but I couldn't find anything on tracking individuals purchasing guns.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 06:16 AM
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Will read the treaty later. I just wanted to say that the most probable way to detect who has firearms would be to review the records of people who registered to carry concealed weapons. Where I live a form is filled out requesting admission to a concealed weapons class with $90.00 fee, I don't know exactly what goes on in the class, I suspect lectures relating to gun laws and there is some firing practice done with highway patrolmen, if the person qualifies they are given a token gun lock along with paper that proves he is a legal carrier of concealed weapons. Now at some point, the applicant is looked up on this national wide database and their criminal records are reviewed.

One of the first things a highway patrolman asks when stopping someone is whether they have weapons or drugs in the vehicle. As I understand it, a person may still carry a gun in a vehicle as long as it is in clear sight and unloaded. Am I right about that?

If a person buys a gun in a gunshop, the person is looked up on a database that gives their criminal history prior to any sale. Also, if a person purchases a gun, that doesn't necessarily mean he/she has that gun forever. In fact, I had a new 380 pistol stolen from my home when my son was having a party. Wasn't that great
.

There are a lot of guns in black market, guns traded or sold to another person. I believe that it would be difficult at best to find everyone who has guns, but they will find the people who registered to carry a concealed weapon.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by catamaran

One of the first things a highway patrolman asks when stopping someone is whether they have weapons or drugs in the vehicle. As I understand it, a person may still carry a gun in a vehicle as long as it is in clear sight and unloaded. Am I right about that?


It varies by state but is true in Virgina anyway, you are correct. I miss
Jesse Helms on this one, he stopped alot of UN power-grabbing from
happening to the US. one bright spot in this is even if the US becomes
a signatory to this it will up to the US to enforce it (which they won't).

All these UN resolutions do not trump US law or the Constitution, it's
more of a mind game of convincing people that they should act on these
resolutions though they are not lawfully binding.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:57 AM
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Good luck to any foreign power who decides it's a good idea to come into the United States and confiscate citizens' weapons. They can start in the South, in the state of their choosing. That would be a very short campaign indeed.


Anything short of a D-Day scale amphibious operation would be decimated within hours. By civilians.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by moonwilson
Good luck to any foreign power who decides it's a good idea to come into the United States and confiscate citizens' weapons. They can start in the South, in the state of their choosing. That would be a very short campaign indeed.


Anything short of a D-Day scale amphibious operation would be decimated within hours. By civilians.


there will be no foriegn d-day invasion... economic defeat is much less messy. kill the middle-class economically and we turn into a defeated third world nation without a shot fired. ALL HAIL THE CORPORATION!!!



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


This ties in with the following:

Now all Guns must be listed on your next 2010 tax return!
www.abovetopsecret.com...

They are not admitting it but I am 100% sure they want to setup a gun database similar to the one that failed in Canada.


[edit on 17-9-2009 by warrenb]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:05 AM
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The solution is simple. Buy weapons person to person only, or make your own. Don't have any weapons that the gov't knows about.

The problem is that not many people will do this.


Ammuntion is another problem altogether, even if you reload you still need the supplies, brass, powder, primers. If they cut off the ammo we will have to depend on our existing stocks or come up with our own.

Either that, or do whatever we can to stop crap like this from happening, but I fear that before long it won't matter what we do.

Politicians blatantly defy their employers every day, their paycheck is not what motivates them, when the fringe benefits from the lobbyist are far more valuable. Their loyalties lie with them. Greed is the cancer and 1776 is the answer.

edit: Just wanted to add that witht he state of military technology, the most important weapon you can own, as always, would be your brain.


Personal weapons would be useful for personal defense only. If the people have to stand up, countermeasures to the new Area Denial Weapons and other less-lethal devices will have to be worked out. Can't take out a predator drone at 20,000 feet with rifle fire.




[edit on 17-9-2009 by hotrodturbo7]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:25 AM
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Every firearm produced by a recognized company in this world is considered legal by the bill itself. The only place logically that this bill speaks to is maybe parts of India and Pakistan that produce very good looking but very iffy in the quality dept, copies of rifles and pistols by hand.
All manufacturers are already licensed by this and other governments. Where this falls is how the language will be instituted by the criminal organization known as the UN. For our government to release any information about our legal ownership of firearms is tantamount to treasonous actions by this government. They have no mandate to do this. Of course this will never stop the megalomaniacs in the District of Criminals!

Zindo



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by hotrodturbo7
The solution is simple. Buy weapons person to person only, or make your own. Don't have any weapons that the gov't knows about.

The problem is that not many people will do this.


Ammuntion is another problem altogether, even if you reload you still need the supplies, brass, powder, primers. If they cut off the ammo we will have to depend on our existing stocks or come up with our own.

Either that, or do whatever we can to stop crap like this from happening, but I fear that before long it won't matter what we do.

Politicians blatantly defy their employers every day, their paycheck is not what motivates them, when the fringe benefits from the lobbyist are far more valuable. Their loyalties lie with them. Greed is the cancer and 1776 is the answer.

edit: Just wanted to add that witht he state of military technology, the most important weapon you can own, as always, would be your brain.


Personal weapons would be useful for personal defense only. If the people have to stand up, countermeasures to the new Area Denial Weapons and other less-lethal devices will have to be worked out. Can't take out a predator drone at 20,000 feet with rifle fire.




[edit on 17-9-2009 by hotrodturbo7]



How is making your own gun a simple solution??? Honestly, what kind of answer is that.


Anyways, I wouldn't worry about this too much. Even with a majority of dems in senate it's not going to pass.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by hotrodturbo7
Can't take out a predator drone at 20,000 feet with rifle fire.


Maybe not. But you sure can take out the operator on the ground with rifle fire. And disrupt the supply chain to the base the Predator is operating from, so it sits uselessly on the runway.

Or better yet, kill the general or politician who is responsible for ordering troops to fire on their fellow citizens in the first place.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by moonwilson]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:29 AM
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This is the reason why the NRA jokingly named Obama the "Firearms salesman of the year." Due to his somewhat radical anti-gun views, people went out in hordes to buy firearms and ammo when he was elected.

By the way, any attempt to take firearms away from American citizens would be disastrous. Americans don't like to be separated from our guns. And, if any foreign country tries to do so, then they would be making a very big mistake. There would not be a kind reaction to armed forces from other nations trying to forcibly disarm US citizens. Americans would be a lot less hesitant to fire on soldiers from other countries who taking away their rights, and their self-defense. Since Obama has been in office, there have been more firearms bought by American citizens than the amount needed to supply both the entire Chinese armed forces, and the entire armed forces of India too. So other countries may have trained soldiers with much better supplies, technology, and weapons, but there is still no way they could fight against hundreds of millions of armed and deadly Americans. If you think that guerillas and terrorists are bad over in Iraq and Afghanistan, then you couldn't even fathom what would happen if US citizens decided to fight back against foreign troops in our land...

I strongly, sincerely, with all my heart, pray that this does not get passed!
Thank you, OP, for bringing this issue to attention.
S + F



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:49 AM
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I don't understand why everyone makes an issue over anything involving guns. You forget that the biggest mistake the government ever made was giving us the right to them in the first place. If attempts to take them are made, all it takes is the first shot to be fired causing a new Civil War to erupt. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that all gun owners as of now have their finger on the trigger. The gov knows this and aren't dumb enough to provoke them.

And BTW, god help any country that wants to come over and try to take our guns away. It's suicide.

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by merryxmas
 


The Chechyns do it all the time.

Chechyn resistance weapons

There is a wealth of information on the interwebs re: clandestine gunsmithing.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by hotrodturbo7]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by moonwilson
 


Exactly my point about the brain being the most useful weapon. Any of the scenarios you stated could be accomplished without firing a shot.



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