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I believe over 1,000 people were murdered due to the actions of a UK national newspaper

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posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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Wouldn't it stand to reason that seeing these words *anywhere* - not just the Daily Mail - would incite people to commit these acts? While we're on our book burning parade - let's make sure to ban all questionable phrases from being printed or spoken.

For instance, Ginsu CANNOT advertise that they sale "a Knife People like!" - because anyone who sees that advertisement is quite likely to go knife some people.

Does the Daily Mail use special magical ink that affects people more than any other piece of print that's mentioned knifes??

If the title had read "Knifes out for Brown" and Brown had gotten knifed (or even any old schmuck named Brown for that matter) or the actual Spice Girls axed (we could all rejoice) - I might say "whoh, a little merit here" - but since that is not the case, I'm sorry, but I believe this to be hogwash.




posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by mattifikation
Can we say "paranoid delusions?" You sound like the guy from Conspiracy Theory. You've convinced yourself that not only is the Daily Mail inciting violence, but that they are doing it specifically because of you and the letters you wrote to them. Here's something to chew on: Every time you wrote them letters asking them to stop, they would print more articles. Despite having full knowledge of this fact, you continued to send letters.

Simple observation of cause and effect should have told you that your own letters were provoking the Daily Mail to incite this knife violence. Maybe some blood is on your hands, too?




There is no deliberate "blood on my hands" whatsoever. It is certainly true that there have been homicides that could have been prevented had the Daily Mail not printed headlines like "Knives come out again..", however how was I to know that Mr. Paul Dacre, the Chief Editor, would act utterly irresponsibiliy - every time that I wrote to him pointing out that these headlines may lead to violence, with sound information - he used them more, obsessively in fact. I was asking for the newspaper to "Stop", not do it more, I was not the one behaving irresponsibily or illegally.

Furthermore, when Richard Wallace, of the Daily Mirror, wrote me a brief letter to say that he had noted my points about dangerous phrases and the fact that the Sun newspaper had put in red and shadowed the sport page headline "KNIVED", in 2005, (which I believe led to the knife murder of a girl by a foreigner), I totally expected that he would not countenance similar headlines or techniques in his own newspaper.

But then, the very next day, presumably influenced by my letter, "I'll show that guy how powerful the media is" or something like that, he sanctioned the highlighting of the word "AXED" on the front cover by printing it in Red, which blurs the metaphorical impression of the headline. And that very afternoon, a poor chap called Anthony Walker was killed with an Axe.

I sent approximately 20 letters, many by Special Delivery, to the Daily Mail between July 2001 and June 2009. In 2006, I wrote a letter to Paul Dacre saying that I would broadcast the information about the whole scandal if the Daily Mail would not stop printing "Knives are out" or "Knives come out".

Whilst the letter I had written was perfectly clear, I then received a polite, though I think 'obfuscated' letter from Mr. Robin Esser, the Executive Managing Editor, saying that the newspaper had a duty to report knife crimes when they happened, and was I arguing that the newspaper should not report knife crimes because it may lead to copy-cat crimes? Furthermore, he said the newspaper believed that tougher sentencing was part of the answer [to tackle Britain's knife crime problem].

I wrote back to Mr. Esser, explaining that I was complaining about the metaphorical knives - the 'pretend' knives in the headlines like "Knives come out again for Gordon Brown". I also enclosed testimony from a criminal who had commited knife crime having been triggered by a Daily Mail headline.

He wrote back - to say that he would send a memo to all editorial staff, advising them that these phrases "can be unhelpful in the fight against violence." He wrote "We can but start to change."

For several months, there were no knife cacophemisms used, and in fact there was a dip in knife crime, although not a total cessation. Then, after just two or three months, the policy of not printing cacophemisms was dropped, and "Knives are out" etc. begun cropping up in newspaper headlines again. And every time it was printed, a few days later you had "Man is found stabbed to death". I had noticed that "Knives are out" would never appear in the same edition as the report of a stabbing, but eventually this got dropped too, so you would have "Knives come out for ...." on one page, and "Man is found stabbed" a few pages in.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by quackers
I'm not seeing how the headlines in one national daily paper can subconsciously incite people into violence. Surely all news papers would be guilty of sensationalist mantra, not only the Mail. Is there any proof of a direct link between their headlines and knife crime? Are there any stats showing how many people involved in knife crime actually read the Daily Mail? Or do you just not like the Daily Mail?



The Daily Mail and it's associated group is not the only newspaper that has had a violence-generating effect. However, this is the newspaper group that I have concentrated my energies on trying to stop, because the Editor sanctioned the use of evocative knife metaphors about "knives being got out", I believe, in an continuous obsessive manner.

The Daily Telegraph a few months ago printed their front page headline:-
"Plot to knife Brown ends in failure"

The Daily Mirror printed their own knife cacophemism a little while back in the Sports section:-
"Knives are out for Ancelloti"

The British Broadcasting Corporation allowed Nick Robinson, to conclude a report on TV by saying simply "The knives are out".

ITV News, broadcast by ITN (20% owned by the renigade media organisation DMGT plc), transmitted Tom Bradbury "putting the dagger firmly in the Speaker's front" in reference to the removal of the speaker.

The Sun has on occasion printed the word "assasinate" - a form of murder - in respect of efforts to oust Gordon Brown. But it's not assasination at all.

I believe perhaps the worst offences of all was during the knife amnesty when the Government was doing something reasonable to tackle knife crime, and then the Mail on Sunday published the article headlined "Knives are out" - just those words - which many youngsters interviewed have said they think means get the knives out. Mid knife amnesty a call to get knives out, thus stuffing up the Government's knife amnesty. And then, Paul Dacre, had the audacity to print in his Comment

"The knife amnesty has been a failure. The blame lies squarely with Tony Blair".

And by July 2009, they had become so corrupt, that they think it completely acceptable to print

"In the wake of the credit crunch, however, the knives are out."

in article body text. Absolutely no consideration for the fact that there is no indication given in the paper that the knives printed in this mass media paper are 'pretend'. "Everybody knows that the 'knives are out' are only pretend knives" - that just doesn't wash.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by star in a jar
reply to post by phoenix103



But say, 'Rape Girl' instead of 'Raped girl' and I definitely believe that someone, somewhere, will be more inclined to rape a girl.

[edit on 16-9-2009 by star in a jar]


That's right. You cannot print "Rape girl" as the beginning of a headline. It's blatantly obvious that this incites rape, because some people, especially youngsters, may see it as a directive.

Incidentally, the headline in the Daily Mirror about this was also
"Rape girl, stoned to death"

How utterly irresponsible - this poor girl is stoned to death, and then what the newspapers have done is ended up causing more rape by omitting just one letter.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by Hazelnut
reply to post by TheDailyPlanet
 


What you are implying is that the Daily Mail deliberately included headlines that induced more knife crimes? Am I reading this right?




Before July 2001, I would have thought this inconceivable, but yes all my evidence is showing that the Daily Mail and its associated group took action to provoke knife crime in the UK (and don't forget the paper has international reach too), because my letters in 2001 to Mr. Dacre were not just ignored, but the opposite was implemented at the time.

When I complained about the Sun newspaper in 2005 to the Press Complaints Commission, complaining about their specific language "KNIVED" printed in Red, and embossed and shadowed, saying that I believed that this had led to a murder, the Press Complaints Commission replied with a letter of obfuscation - "We are sorry that you took exception to a Photograph in the Sun newspaper. We are unable to take action because we only get involved in cases where you have been personally affected by press content". I did not complain about a photograph !

And get this, the Chairman of the Press Complaints Commission, is... Mr. Paul Dacre, the Editor of the Daily Mail.

When I complained on the phone to Mr. Robin Esser, that a man had been stabbed to death a few days after the London Evening Standard (within the same group at the time) had printed "Knives Come Out for Michael Grade", he said "That's right" in a voice which to me indicated that he knew there was a connection.

You see what I think has been going on is that these people I am delegated to, Mr. Robin Esser, the Executive Managing Editor, and Mr. Charles Garside - they are not responsible for the obsessive knife metaphor headlines, as far as I can see they may be against them, but Mr. Dacre keeps wanting it to say "Knives are out".

The very last time I spoke to Mr. Garside, the Assistant Editor, of the Daily Mail, on the phone, he said - actually in a shaky voice - "We are trying very hard", as though it is a hard thing to acheive a newspaper that does not print things like "the knives are coming out".

I cannot be certain but there is a chance that staff like Mr. Garside are completely against these headlines due to their problems, but he does not have the power that Mr. Dacre has at the newspaper ! I have heard from someone who had a friend who worked for Mr. Dacre's organisation, and apparently the man is an "absolute nightmare" to work for, allegedly. I also found on the internet a quote from an ex-Daily Mail journalist:-

"Dacre kills with headlines."

[edit on 17-9-2009 by TheDailyPlanet]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by TheDailyPlanet
 


I am so, so embarassed by you!

Should football commentators cease using the word "kick", just in case it incites some one to kick someone to death?

How about the alcoholic mixed drink, punch? Surely this should be banned, no?

And the (well... this post will be removed if I use the term I would like) who is trying to find ridiculous situations for a "psycho" to read a mid paper article, like a paper being blown open on the street etc! It's really quite pathetic! People are culpable for their actions, they don't need outside stimulus.

It is the people who commit the crimes who should be held responsible, not a journo who uses such a common phrase as "the knives are out for..." and if the OP had really never heard that phrase before then s/he really has led a very sheltered existence which I think could well be the problem here.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by CRB86
Of course, the problem with this scenario is that it suggests that 'hoodies' in Brum, Manchester and South London all read the Daily Mail.

A paper, which, is predominantly read by the elderly and lunatic right-wingers.


'hoodies' may not read the paper, but headlines show up in bold easily noticed text. They are there to draw attention.

This effect may be a demonstrable manifestation of a meme.


A unit of cultural information, such as a cultural practice or idea, that is transmitted verbally or by repeated action from one mind to another.


Not nessesariy a thought virus, but the concept or the idea passes from one person to another, and pre-loads them to think of something that they ordinarily would have never considered.




This is not Mind Control.... Think about it.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by RoofMonkey]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by triplesod
reply to post by TheDailyPlanet
 


I am so, so embarassed by you!

Should football commentators cease using the word "kick", just in case it incites some one to kick someone to death? No, there is no suggestion made in the statement "kick the football" to "kick somebody".

How about the alcoholic mixed drink, punch? Surely this should be banned, no? No, I do not think that Punch should be banned at all. Your statement is ridiculous.

And the (well... this post will be removed if I use the term I would like) who is trying to find ridiculous situations for a "psycho" to read a mid paper article, like a paper being blown open on the street etc! It's really quite pathetic! People are culpable for their actions, they don't need outside stimulus.

It is the people who commit the crimes who should be held responsible, not a journo who uses such a common phrase as "the knives are out for..." and if the OP had really never heard that phrase before then s/he really has led a very sheltered existence which I think could well be the problem here.


Well sir, I have received letters and spoken to people who say that headlines such as "Now they will stab him.." have influenced them to commit knife crime, because the evocative language has led them to believe that "knife crime is OK".

Up until the age of 24, I had never heard the phrase "knives are out" ever before, I regularly read the Daily Mail newspaper in earlier years, when it was edited by Sir David English, and the phrase was never used.

You may think that "the knives are out" is an 'everyday' phrase, but it wasn't. Things got so bad about 2 years ago, after the Daily Mail obsessively said "Knives are out" week after week, that it permeated more and more into society and other media. Until the point you had a television commentator saying on Channel 4

"The knives are out in the Big Brother household"

And then, on the news later, you have

"Why is knife crime such a big problem? What can we do to stop it?"



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by oneclickaway
Well. let's hope that one of these mentally triggered people is not reading this thread. With the number of 'knife him's' mentioned there may be a bloodbath about to happen....lol


There's one writing it!

DailyPlanet. With all due respect, tell us your mental health diagnosis, please.

I ask this in all seriousness. You are delusional, paranoidal, you believe environmental changes occur due to your actions and you are also obsessed and somewhat compulsive.

I know you have a mental health problem, as do you and there is nothing wrong with that. Many hundreds reading this also have mental health problems and this thread, more than any headlines could cause them to react abnormally to your words. That is why I think you should be honest and, if you don't want to explain exactly what your diagnosis was, at least admit to having mental health problems.

I am honestly not picking on you or anything like that, I am concerned about group sanity.

All the best and good luck anyway.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by triplesod]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by triplesod
 


Kind of you to offer me best wishes, but I think you're talking tripe. As for the suggestion that there is a risk now that I am going to commit a knife crime, I found that quite offensive.

I do not have a 'mental health condition' whatsoever, and consider myself extremely stable.

I have confirmed information about 7 knife crimes that were commited after the Daily Mail printed headlines like "After a week to forget, the knives are out".

It may not inspire you or I to get a knife out, but for some people it does - because they've told me so!



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:59 AM
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Re-iterating an earlier post of mine:-

According to expert advice at waylink-english.co.uk :- "With a metaphor, because the comparison is not explicit, it can lead to confusion. If the comparison is not recognized, the expression may be taken literally instead of figuratively."

Quoting RoofMoney:-

" Not nessesariy a thought virus, but the concept or the idea passes from one person to another, and pre-loads them to think of something that they ordinarily would have never considered. "


I think that's absolutely right. If the Daily Mail prints as they did, something like:-

"...rushing to put the knife into Mr. Brown"

I believe, due to the countenancing of knife crime - ie. taken literally, it's OK to commit knife crime against Gordon Brown, these kind of headlines have led to vast amounts of violence. But the perpetrator of the violent crime may not have even seen the original headline. The original reader has the fact that the "knives are out" or "the knives are coming out" embedded on their subconscious, and this gets passed on - whether through conscious recounting, or other subconscious influences onto others.



[edit on 17-9-2009 by TheDailyPlanet]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by Malcram
 


I suppose my subconscious is of stronger fiber than yours, if you read a title like that and are influenced by it to commit a serious crime.

I'd like to see your "research", please, that has examples of news article titles which have lead or incited acts depicted within their meaning.

Had the title said, "Go rape" or "Kill your dad" or "Drink poison now", I'd be more inclined to agree with you. Those are directives which I could see as being picked up by the subconcious as a "real" command that *you*, the individual reading it, should carry out. Not likely, but I'll go with your argument.

But the title, "Rape girl, 13, stoned to death" certainly doesn't imply any command to me. The word 'rape' isn';t being used as a verb in this case but as a descriptor for the noun, girl. And then, "stoned to death" is just a verb phrase.

Unless one has a problem understanding English, I cannot see how that title could "incite" anything by definition of what it is. Perhaps the meaning and emotional connotation of a 13 year old rape victim being stoned to death would cause people to get upset, but not go out and "rape".

I just don't see it.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by TheDailyPlanet
And then, on the news later, you have

"Why is knife crime such a big problem? What can we do to stop it?"


At the risk of running off topic....

To that I'd say the reason is down to our (UK) poor laws and the enforcing of those laws for young offenders.

They usually get a slap on the wrist and an ASBO, which, in some areas, is more of an accomplishment than an embarassment.

To stop it? Well, stop being so soft on kids and teens caught with knives. Lock them up in isolation for a month, put them into 6 weeks of national service - make them uncomfortable and take them out/away from their comfort zone. make them realise that just because they're kids, doesn't mean the law doesn't apply.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by TheDailyPlanet
reply to post by triplesod
 


Kind of you to offer me best wishes, but I think you're talking tripe. As for the suggestion that there is a risk now that I am going to commit a knife crime, I found that quite offensive.



I never said you were going to commit a knife crime! I never even considered the idea.

If you really haven't had a mental health diagnosis, I really would suggest a visit to your GP or community mental health team.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by noonebutme

Had the title said, "Go rape" or "Kill your dad" or "Drink poison now", I'd be more inclined to agree with you. Those are directives which I could see as being picked up by the subconcious as a "real" command that *you*, the individual reading it, should carry out. Not likely, but I'll go with your argument.

But the title, "Rape girl, 13, stoned to death" certainly doesn't imply any command to me. The word 'rape' isn';t being used as a verb in this case but as a descriptor for the noun, girl. And then, "stoned to death" is just a verb phrase.

Unless one has a problem understanding English, I cannot see how that title could "incite" anything by definition of what it is. Perhaps the meaning and emotional connotation of a 13 year old rape victim being stoned to death would cause people to get upset, but not go out and "rape".

I just don't see it.


You may not see it, but hundreds of thousands of kids in Britain are NOT used to seeing "Rape Girl, 13" and understanding straight away that the context is a descriptor for the noun despite dropping the 'd', and not being used as a verb.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by triplesod

Originally posted by TheDailyPlanet
reply to post by triplesod
 


Kind of you to offer me best wishes, but I think you're talking tripe. As for the suggestion that there is a risk now that I am going to commit a knife crime, I found that quite offensive.



I never said you were going to commit a knife crime! I never even considered the idea.




I quote:-

Originally posted by oneclickaway
Well. let's hope that one of these mentally triggered people is not reading this thread. With the number of 'knife him's' mentioned there may be a bloodbath about to happen....lol

You wrote, in response to this:- There's one writing it!


It is blatantly obvious when you look at this thread, that it is against knife crime. The statement "knives come out" or "knives are out" is not against knife crime.


[edit on 17-9-2009 by TheDailyPlanet]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:58 AM
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"Knives are being sharpened for Health Secretary Andy Burnham..." was printed in article body text on 22nd August 2009 (article by 'Blackdog') in the Daily Mail.

Just think for a moment what that means ! It's acceptable in 2009 to print that in a "family newspaper" read by over 5 million ?

"Knives are being sharpened" is in the context of the preparation for kniving !

I believe a huge number of murders were related to the use of these phrases by the Daily Mail newspaper and its group in its headlines, or similar, on over 150 occasions:- "Knives are out..", "Knives come out..", "Knives are being sharpened", "Who will wield the knife?", "Now they will stab him in the front".



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by TheDailyPlanet
 



I had noticed that "Knives are out" would never appear in the same edition as the report of a stabbing, but eventually this got dropped too, so you would have "Knives come out for ...." on one page, and "Man is found stabbed" a few pages in.


thankyou - you have just invalidated your own correlation


the knife crime must have occured before the headline was written



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by TheDailyPlanet
 



I had noticed that "Knives are out" would never appear in the same edition as the report of a stabbing, but eventually this got dropped too, so you would have "Knives come out for ...." on one page, and "Man is found stabbed" a few pages in.


thankyou - you have just invalidated your own correlation


the knife crime must have occured before the headline was written



No - what I am saying is that one murder was reported, and concurrently a new murder was being set up at the same time.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by TheDailyPlanet]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by TheDailyPlanet
 


I just want to throw in my support of your observations.
This is one of the oldest tricks in the book. Idle minds are playgrounds for the devil.
We are only aware of what we see, thus the idle mind, sees what it is fed.
Liminal Thought Injection.



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