How to Fix Immigration

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posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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Background:
The idea that securing our borders is somehow "controversial" has never made any sense to me! Now, with Healthcare reform and tax hikes pinning their arguments on whether or not "illegals" will be covered, the whole idea that we know about millions of illegal immigrants and we don't do anything about it has got me thinking.

I worked in the construction industry, and I come from the Midwest where Clinton "saved" Arkansas by building Turkey and Chicken processing plants and creating tens of thousands of jobs that nobody wanted!

I realize that our infrastructure is highly dependent on this labor pool, and that certain industries would be shut down if we removed all the illegal immigrants.

I also understand that many of the illegal immigrants are learning English and attempting to meld into our society. They are often hard-working families with high morals and virtues and work ethics. So they shouldn't be looked down upon or treated as criminals.

So, how do we account for these people, prop up the industries that depend on them, and at the same time take the burden off the taxpayers, and shore up our borders from threats??


Here is my plan:

1. Amnesty. It is controversial, but it is necessary at this point. We give a 6 month cooling off period before beginning to crackdown. We set up Social Security offices and Immigration Offices and we help get as many of these workers documented as possible. We do an ad campaign and we publicize the plan, the help available, and the consequences for staying unregistered.

We get the Visas in place, we begin to tax their income just like American workers. We alleviate the disparity in wages, and we provide additional SS and tax revenue to the system that is already footing the bill! We assist employers on getting their books right, and we get everyone moving in the right direction.

2. We secure the borders at all costs!! Lethal force has always, and should always be allowed at our borders! There should never be a single person crossing into this country illegally. If a poor migrant worker can do it, then so can a well-funded terrorist!! Fences, Patrols, UAV, Cameras, Military, National Guard, Manned Gates, etc., etc. This goes for the Northern border as well, and for the Coastlines!! If boatloads of Cubans can sneak over, then so can boatloads of Criminals or Terrorists! We have to provide the means, resources, and political and economic support to our border patrols!! THIS HAS TO BE A NON-NEGOTIABLE!

3. We set up VISA help lines in Mexico. We set up satellite offices across the border, we attempt to help get people immigrating legally, and we make sure there is less and less incentive to do it illegally. With streamlined VISA's making it easier to immigrate legally, and increased patrols authorized to use lethal force, the Illegal Immigration should come to a grinding halt!!

4. After the 6 month Amnesty Period, We enlist our businesses and Hospitals, and Driver's License Bureaus, and every American to report illegal aliens! If we know they are here, and we don't get them deported, then we are all guilty!
If they show up at the ER, we patch them up, and then we arrest and deport!
If they show up looking for work, we document them, take their info, and give it to immigration!
If they want a Driver's License, we take their info, and we direct them to the licensed officer waiting to deport them!

5. We document Deported Aliens, and we make it clear that a second offense will be treated as a criminal offense, if they survive the encounter! We document, fingerprint, and database everyone who is deported, and we compare that info on every person we pick up.

6. We create a "Graduated Visa Program." One year work VISA has very few guidelines, but to renew for a Second Year will require Basic English Skills and Basic Civic Knowledge. To renew for a Third Year will require fluent English, and better Civic and Legal Knowledge. After Three Years, they will have to show continued work and tax contributions, or a desire to obtain citizenship. No Freeloaders will stay in the country for more than Three Years!

7. We hire staff, and begin to review and investigate expired VISAs. It isn't just Hispanics that are here illegally. There are a vast amount of expired Student VISAs on the books. We need to know where those people are, and what their intentions are! They are subject to the same 6 month Amnesty, and then they will be considered criminals!

My plan is still taking shape, and I would love the input of ATSers on it. If it becomes streamlined and articulate enough, I plan to help a local Congressional Representative make it part of his platform for election!

Please offer all the "constructive" criticism you can! I look forward to people disagreeing with certain aspects, but try to offer an alternative. I know it is a HOT subject, but I just can't believe anybody would not want to help people immigrate effectively, and protect our borders at the same time! I

have heard the "huddled masses" argument many times, and I agree with it. I want immigration to continue, but I want it done legally and safely, and I want the immigrants to continue to add value to our country as they have done in the past, and not become a burden upon it, or a political tool to get tossed about!

Thanks in Advance!

GetReadyAlready




posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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Good post GRA. I'm not sure this would qualify as 'constructive' but it popped in to my head so I have to spew it.


It makes me think of this:



I'm not sure, maybe I've got a bleeding heart liberal streak or something, but I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of surrounding the US with military fortifications.

I agree entirely that immigration needs to be controlled and that we MUST stop the seemingly endless flow of people across the border.

What is it that makes it seem so wrong though?

In reality, we KNOW it HAS to happen. In practice we get squeamish and don't want to hurt anybody's feelings or something....

'so I jumped the fence and yelled at the house, HEY, what gives you the right...to put up a fence to keep me out, or to keep mother nature in...if god was here he'd say it to your face...man, you're some kinda sinner.'

Is it liberalism that has me crying foul, or is just claustrophobia?

(gratitude applied accordingly)

[edit on 16-9-2009 by KSPigpen]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by KSPigpen
 


My brother said something similar when he proofread this for me! The wall could just as easily keep us in. But, I don't think Americans would run for the borders in a catastrophe, I think we would stay and fight!

I also don't think we would be keeping out any good, hard-working people! I think we should have satallite offices on the Mexican side of all the border towns, and we should try to get as many working folks, and families in as we can!
But, they have to be documented, pay taxes, and compete for the same wages as Americans!

Thanks for pic! We already have that "wall" scenario in Brownsville, TX, and El Paso, TX and others! Cuidad Juarez was just named the most dangerous city in the World!! We have to be able to control who comes and goes!



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:41 PM
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In honesty, I like your plan.

Amazing how we told Russia to tear down those walls, are not happy about the wall Israel has put up, but are OK with putting up our own wall.

I like your vision of equality on point 2. Shows your legit about the issue.

If they could improve the efficiency in point 3, people would be more inclined to come across legally. It really does take a long time to go through the system.

Point 4- Think 6 months is fair enough time before operation deportation.

Point 5- Documenting has already started. I know personally that many who have been caught again have had to spend time in jail.

Point 6- Disagree. Do you really expect people to be fluent in English in 3 years. I teach english and civics classes and can tell you it isn't possible for the majority of them. But I do think English and civics should be part of the deal.

Point 7- Shows your legit again. Most people ignore this fact and believe the Southern Border is the only way in. About 50% of illegals are people who overstayed their visas. Need to find a way here to prevent them from overstaying Visas in the first place.

Excellent.

[edit on 16-9-2009 by jam321]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:42 PM
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Your plan looks pretty good
I personally would like to see the border of Mexico turned into a military base . Yes the whole thing a quarter or a half mile wide military installation running the length of the U.S./ Mexico border.
The only problem with that is you would stop all the drugs from coming in along with all the illegals .
Then the only contraband coming in would be through military bases.
Who could you blame then?
So that will never happen



[edit on 9/16/2009 by MagnumOverDrive]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


I like the idea you have there, but I am concerned about the possible implications of walling off our country. I definitely agree about the huddled masses argument and the benefit that these workers have provided to our nation as far as jobs that Americans just don't want. The walling us off still bothers me though. Historically this has been a recipe for dictatorship, I cite Hadrian's Wall, The Great Wall of China, and the Berlin Wall.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Very interesting idea...

I'm not sure it's practical, but I have issues with your #6. I lean towards no such thing as work VISAs. If someone wants to immigrate to here, fine, they go through the process and do so. If after being here a while in that process they want to go back home, also fine. But I don't think I agree with work VISAs for (let's face it) what is called non-skilled labor. There are plenty of non-skilled people already here to fill those jobs.

And I think you need a #8: Come down hard and heavy on businesses that hire illegals. That is one thing that is sorely lacking now... actual enforcement of the laws we have is extremely spotty.

It's like the drug trade, in a way... if there was no demand, there would be no drug traffic. If there are no businesses that will hire illegals, that will also discourage such traffic. So hit those businesses hard.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


Thanks Jam,

I like the idea of a Graduated Visa program, it lets people get in with simplicity, but it asks more and more of them as they stay longer. Maybe 3 years to fluency is pushing it. We could fiddle with that some, but I know after a few weeks in Mexico, my Spanish was getting pretty good!

Since you teach English and Civics, you probably know that it is a little unfair to ask immigrants to know more about our civics than our own citizens do, but that is a different topic!



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 



Since you teach English and Civics, you probably know that it is a little unfair to ask immigrants to know more about our civics than our own citizens do, but that is a different topic!


I don't think it's unfair. I think what is unfair is that our government don't demand that Americans be better educated in civics.

Of course, we all know why they don't push the issue. Job security is priority one.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by Open_Minded Skeptic
 



And I think you need a #8: Come down hard and heavy on businesses that hire illegals. That is one thing that is sorely lacking now... actual enforcement of the laws we have is extremely spotty.


You're right, and I actually had planned to address that and it slipped out through editing.


It will be the responsibility of businesses to report illegal immigrants during and after the amnesty period. Even applicants should be reported. The businesses that don't get their documentation and books straight during the amnesty period should face huge fines and penalties.

We may even be able to offer some incentives to the legal immigrants to report illegal activity. Kind of a "crime stoppers" for immigration!



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by Open_Minded Skeptic
 



There are plenty of non-skilled people already here to fill those jobs.


Most people think so, but that really isn't the case! The Meat Processing plants in Arkansas, Missouri, and Kansas can barely keep enough employees to stay running. They have dozens of openings at all times, and when immigration starts snooping around, they have to close down some of their shifts and work less hours, because they don't have the manpower!

Construction is similar. I was on a big project with heavy equipment zooming around and cranes, and air hammers, building an apartment complex. Worker's Comp reps showed up, and a rumor of immigration spread, and it was a ghost town! My Mason's were laying brick, there was a couple of supervisors with walkie talkies, and one lone hammer off in the distance!!

We do need the immigrants for those "non-skilled" positions, but they need to pay their taxes!



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Huh... I am surprised... but I stand corrected, thanks! If we get them on the tax roles and fully documented, that sounds like it could work...



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


I think you have only one major hurdle to jump over in order to convince people this is possible.

What makes your plan different from what took place in 1986 under Reagan?

Many people believe Reagan's plan failed. I view it otherwise.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


You ready for this, GTA?


Gather up all illegal immigrants, and ship them to Venezuela, let Chavez have them back.

Build a wall, with spotlights on them, and snipers in the towers, anyone trying to enter via illegal means is shot, and let the Mexican's bury the dead, if they don't that will remind all who see the unburied dead that we are not kidding.

As the exit points of the border, post a sign which reads the following :


If you plan on coming back with diseases, including the sexually transmitted types, drugs, weapons, hookers, illegal immigrants, or anything illicit that is against the laws of the United States of America, we will give you one last chance upon re-entry to turn around.

Once you pass into the zone demarcated as "No Man's Land", and you are found with any of these, you as well as your vehicle and anyone within the confines of said vehicle are subject to a new device which was built into the ground which opens up, similar to a car crusher, and it will immediately pulverize your sorry butt.

Have a nice day and enjoy Mexico!


Requirement Number 1

* To visit America, you must speak English.

Requirement Number 2

* To live in America, you must speak English well enough to be understood.

Requirement Number 3

* To leave America, you must not have committed a crime against a citizen, or you will be departing to Guantanamo, designated as a foreign national.

Requirement Number 4

* If you are a convicted felon, convicted pedophile, or convicted rapist of your home country, don't bother getting on the plane to come here because you will not be getting off the plane when it lands, the Federal Air Marshall will throw you out of the plane somewhere over a shark infested waterway, or in the Bermuda Triangle, whichever is closer and or more devious depending on the nature of the sadistic twisted humor of that individual A.M.

@ Side Note : Do not bother swimming to America, the Coast Guard will have received your location to watch for you.

Is it telling I'm in a very sadistic mood today?


[edit on 16-9-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


SKL,
That is harsh, lol! I see your point, and I think we can get there. I think we need to get there in several steps though.


Like I said before, some of these people are good people, and our commerce in several sectors is built around them at this point. So, we need to cleanup our mess, and provide an alternative, and then we can go to the "No Nonsense" approach you outlined!


Thanks for your input, and I know that a lot of Americans feel the same way! That is exactly why I think this is one of the easiest political issues to address and fix. There are strong opinions, and clear avenues of relief, and we just need a fair plan to address everyones concerns, with a clear objective and deadline, and rewards and penalties!




posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Well, I hope you, as well as everyone else realizes that my post was done with some humor.

I have nothing against citizens of other countries, I have been to Australian three times, and I learned Australian Strine, their slang, before going, so at least I made people laugh imitating them a tad, as well as having fun with them.

I studied Australia over a year before actually going, knew what I was getting into.

Outback Steakhouse is a joke there, Foster's beer is rocket fuel which why they export it, and never ask an Aussie how they like Bloomin Onion's, or you'll get a bloomin black-eye.

Illegal immigrants however, can get the Hell out of our country, period.

You want inside the U.S.A., come in through regular channels, or do not bother.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:45 PM
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That's a good start to a workable immigration plan. I have issue with a couple of them though.


Originally posted by getreadyalready

2. We secure the borders at all costs!! Lethal force has always, and should always be allowed at our borders! There should never be a single person crossing into this country illegally. If a poor migrant worker can do it, then so can a well-funded terrorist!! Fences, Patrols, UAV, Cameras, Military, National Guard, Manned Gates, etc., etc. This goes for the Northern border as well, and for the Coastlines!! If boatloads of Cubans can sneak over, then so can boatloads of Criminals or Terrorists! We have to provide the means, resources, and political and economic support to our border patrols!! THIS HAS TO BE A NON-NEGOTIABLE!


The problem I have with #2 is the deadly force part. It is just inhumane to kill someone for crossing a geopolitical line. I'm of the opinion that we are all born into this world and the Earth (all of it) belongs to us all.


6. We create a "Graduated Visa Program." One year work VISA has very few guidelines, but to renew for a Second Year will require Basic English Skills and Basic Civic Knowledge. To renew for a Third Year will require fluent English, and better Civic and Legal Knowledge. After Three Years, they will have to show continued work and tax contributions, or a desire to obtain citizenship. No Freeloaders will stay in the country for more than Three Years!


I only disagree with #6 because the federal government, to this day, has failed to recognize English as our official language. If/when that day comes to fruition, then I will agree completely.

All in all, great ideas to get us started. Problem is, getting a majority of Americans to agree to this plan. I think such a plan would probably cause as much division and hatred as the health care issue. I don't think we will ever have a majority rules scenario that is in favor of legitimizing illegal aliens.

Just my 2-cents

EDIT: S&F


[edit on 16-9-2009 by Aggie Man]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by getreadyalready
 


I think you have only one major hurdle to jump over in order to convince people this is possible.

What makes your plan different from what took place in 1986 under Reagan?

Many people believe Reagan's plan failed. I view it otherwise.


Jam,
I got caught up at work, and I couldn't respond. You bring up a great point, and I will have to go back and look at Reagan's actions. Luckily, I get to be the idea man and ink man, but someone else will ultimately "sell" it!

I may eventually throw my own hat in the ring, but I have too many irons in the fire at the moment, so I am trying to help our "Tea Party" "Whig" candidate out!

Immigration is a pretty hot issue in Florida, so I think a clear plan will really help him, and I think we can devise just such a plan!!

Thanks for bringing up Reagan, I will look into it more this evening.

GRA



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:53 PM
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I say Deport all Illegals..and let the fat lazy Americans work for 7.15 an hour....


...I Have a Better plan..

1. Abolish all Nations...
2.Everybody is a citizen of the world...so everybody can go anywhere they want..
3.Take all the right-wing conservatives xenophobic to an island...far far away from the rest of us...


..Nations + Patriotism = Right wing nut cracks that think the world belongs to them...



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by Aggie Man
 



The problem I have with #2 is the deadly force part. It is just inhumane to kill someone for crossing a geopolitical line. I'm of the opinion that we are all born into this world and the Earth (all of it) belongs to us all.


Thanks Aggie. I was hoping to get a Texan's opinion!

I am even torn up about this point a little, but if we provide plenty of alternatives, and legal avenues, and ample warning of the consequences, then I don't see a problem. If someone is coming across the border illegally, when legal avenues are readily available, then they must have some dark intentions!! Plus, picking them up, bussing them home, and picking them up again the next day is ludicrous! And, many of them are dying in the deserts, and in the abandoned trailers now, so we have to stem the tide somehow, even for their own good!!

The "English as an Official Language" is another topic I guess. I really don't see a problem with designating a language, but there seems to be a lot of resistance to it? There is nothing wrong with Creole in NO, or Spanish in SoCal and Miami, but it seems very inefficient to not have one central language? Maybe, my candidate should approach that subject as well?

[edit on 16-9-2009 by getreadyalready]





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