Originally posted by Brainiac
The Universe is 10 billion years old est. Earth is 6 billion years old. everything is spreading out away from us, so that means the farther away from earth you get, the younger everything is...

Hence No Aliens... probably 95% no...

Everything isnot moving away from just the Earth.

In fact everything is moving away from everything else - that's the nature of expansion.

Imagine dots on the surface of a balloon slowly growing further apart as it inflates. There is no single dot that everything else is moving away from - they are all separating from one another at an equal velocity.

But if you look at any one dot it will appear that it's stationary while all else moves further away.

Saying that all is moving away from us is akin to saying the Sun orbits the Earth, and even the vatican has given up on that one.

Relativity is a cunningly deceptive concept - simple, yet illusive.

I wonder how aliens choose which place to visit and abduct from (if indeed they do)?

A possible reason could be that they choose the destination based on observations made from their home planet, before disembarking.

If this is correct, then perhaps, taking into account the speed of light, their observations were of the Earth when the Roman Empire ruled, hence their decision to land in Italy.

The Roman Empire is debated to have ended circa 500AD, so we're looking for a system/galaxy that's approx. at least 1500 light-years away.

We can't know how fast their ship travels (but one assumes it's faster than light, probably employing custom made wormholes), but we do know how fast light travels, so any distant observations they may have made of our planet are confined by that speed.


EDITED FOR GRAMMAR AND LOGIC (I REALLY MUST PREVIEW MY POSTS)

[edit on 17-9-2009 by McGinty]

Being half Italian, I had heard of this case a long time ago, and it always had me intrigued, enthralled in fact.

Up to one point;

The 'Ball' Pier claims was given to him by the 'aliens'. It was claimed that it was hidden, but he visited it 2 times per day as a compulsion. But in recent times, when sceptics have called for him to reveal it as 'proof', he refused to do so.

Pier currently claims that the 'ball' is in a hidden location, constantly under armed guard.

He appeared on Italian TV a few years ago, with the journalist asking for photos of the ball - he claimed that only '5 points of light' would appear on the photos, and it was impossible to see the artefact on film.

The photos that he did supply, were so bad that they showed as completely black, completely white, or were of completely blurry shapes. No balls, points of light, or anything else.

He is around now, does conventions now and again, but has no real employment prospects, has had his firearms licences etc taken away, and from the outside, has made very little money out of things.

He has given a date for the 'return' of the creatures... 2010. Guess we won't have to wait long until we find out if it is a hoax or not!

I am now in the 'not true' camp, but there is always that few percentage points of doubt in my mind that he may just be telling the truth, as I fail to see any real motivation for a hoax.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by Fraank Fontaine]

Originally posted by colloredbrothers
And they will return in numbers hmmm.

I read a book by Erich von Dänicken where he shows that big civilizations in the past had encounters with beings from another planet and in all those cases the beings talked about a return.

Today I had a dream, normally i don't have these kind of dreams so its really weird.

I look out the window and there is someone that jumped the fence and walked in my yard he had a very powerfull camera with him and I was wondering WTF!? so i looked at him and in the sky where he was waching and I saw allot of ufo's standing in circles or flying up and comming down like the sky was full of them. I told my dad and I couldn't talk specifics i was almost in shock so the only thing that came out of my mouth was OMG OMG OMG OMG look look!!!!! and my dad looked but sayed he didn't see anything and I was like OMG OMG OMG8!!!!

That night I had my first lucid dream btw, its like my attention ws fully on my dream and suddenly a new scene came before my eyes where i saw all of these ships. Like someone was just waiting for me to become lucid to show me these things.

BTW: everybody was standing outside in awe saying its amazing and stuff.

that's crazy i had a similar dream not too long ago within months.

This is the first alien abduction I've read of dealing with a big black triangle. I, myself, had a very CLOSE encounter with a big black triangle in the summer of 1997. First my sister saw orbs of lights on the horizon -- we went outside. She had seen similar lights elsewhere so returned. I watched the lights -- each a different color -- doing strange manuevers on the horizon. I ruled out headlights, helicopter, plane, tower light. Then suddenly I saw a craft -- an airplane -- flying slowing and making a humming noise -- coming from the horizon. It had lights on each corner and came right over the tree line -- moving really slowly. It then passed right over the hill on the northside of our yard and then over the tree on the north end of our yard, and then the garage.

It was an equilateral triangle with no fuselage -- just a perfect flat triangle. Then I read Curt Sutherly's UFO Mysteries book which has quite a bit on black triangles and then I read the MUFON reports for my area -- there had been several similar sightings right by me about the same time, the mid to late 1990s. One in Wisconsin had been seen to accelerate at vast speed -- disappearing. The Belgium jets could not keep up with these triangles. They're not blimps -- they're some sort of plasma antigravity propulsion.

A local newspaper lady showed me her 3-ring binder of a UFO flap right in our local area -- my parents' house is north of Stillwater along the St. Croix river in Minnesota, next to the Wisconsin border. She had photos of UFO crafts right in the local newspaper. She then said there had been cattle mutilations next to Carlos Avery wildlife refuge and one rancher moved out scared. Finally she said this area was in a "military test flight corridor."

Richard Dolan told me he's writing a new essay on how the black triangles are actually military and not extraterrestrial. Nick Redfern documents a black triangle back to 1947 at a U.S. military base in the U.K. One of the cable shows on UFOs -- on Area 51 -- showed a Northrup designed triangle that was almost an exact equilateral triangle -- flat.

Great stuff OP, had never heard of this case, is a real shame the guys life has went the way it has and is one of the few cases I have seen that there is substantial evidence that something has generally happened to this man. Normally I do not normally comment on abduction cases as they do not interest me and usually have simple explanations however this taken at face value seems to be a real abduction.

Hopefully the ten foot tall beasts stay well away from me

I just only want say THANKS to everyone. I consider every flag and star not for my work, but for the poor Mr. Zanfretta, who lost everything in his life before his first encounter.

This case is really interesting because is well documentated and cover 30 year of history.

I will post the rest of the story really soon, i need some time to translate, and as everyone can see, english is not my first language. I want also reply to everyone that have posted some question, of course if i have the answers.

Thank you again!

cool so reptilian threads are OK now?

bloody reptilians...

[edit on 17-9-2009 by watchZEITGEISTnow]

Originally posted by Orion65
...."they want to talk with us and that they will soon return in larger numbers."

They interrogated/questioned him and examined him (and scared the cr@p out of him) but they ultimately didn't physically harm him (?) so does this mean they want to "talk with us" benevolently? And since this happened between 1978 and 1981 have they returned "in larger numbers" yet?

They not returned yet, but there is some interesting related news at the end of the story, something happen just one year ago to Mr. Zanfretta. As i said i'll post the rest of the story soon.

Hi! It is amazing the aliens bring people back to their location...alive even.
Why is it they don't eject bodies into the air, or leave people on the moon ?or mars? or in space? They have lots of room to be incredibly evil and insensitive. Science. Think of all the terrible experiments that we have done on animals. We don't seem to have control over our skies. We need to build a moon base to protect our planet. Every one needs to get along and work diligently together. Humanity Safety is at stake.

An interesting case and a very good presentation.!

But there are some things that I find strange, like this part:

He kept saying: "My God, are they ugly!". The operator then asked if "they" were human and if they were assaulting him.

Isn't it strange for the operator to ask if "they" were human and assaulting him? Wouldn't it be more natural for the operator to just ask who "they" were?

Or is this something that was "lost in translation"?

Hi Armap!
I'm really happy to see you in this thread, i really appreciate every your intervention here on Ats.

You are right, this is a case of "lost in translation" because when Zanfretta call the operator for the first time he said "My God, are they ugly" and the operator said only " They are assaulting you?" and Zanfretta reply "The are not human! they are NOT human!". So the operator dont ask him if they were human.


@watchZEITGEISTnow

As I said before, this is only a artistic recontruction. I find also some similarity to some reptilians description. Zanfretta described the creatures in that way:

"They are 3 meters high, green with large yellow triangle eyes, skin wrinkled as if they were old, have a mouth with something that looks like iron, and some red vein on the head, pointed ears, arms with nail with something round".

Originally posted by frugal
"Hi! It is amazing the aliens bring people back to their location...alive even.
Why is it they don't eject bodies into the air, or leave people on the moon ?or mars? or in space? They have lots of room to be incredibly evil and insensitive. Science. Think of all the terrible experiments that we have done on animals."

If you were to review the mysterious case from about 1950 in Sweden here on ATS a couple of months ago which seemed to be a multiple abduction case that resulted in seven deaths, you probably would find an answer to your question.

There are a lot of these star folk coming here. They don't all operate exactly by one rule book or if they do, they may interpret Rule 10, Section A, Paragraph 2 differently from prior or later visitors. Basically, we are treated carefully and decently by different standards than what we ourselves would have. But to them, even being enironmental cautious by the rule book, we are specimens to be picked up, examined according to their interests and needs, and usually returned to the pickup point physically intact at the least. Some of them make efforts to not cause us emotional suffering because of the intrustion. (They perhaps understand us better than other visitors--these would be the grays for the most part.) Others, don't seem to care much about us except what they require.

Everybody needs to keep in mind that people that are abducted face a difficult life thereafter. Frequently, that life is destroyed in every possible way, family, friends, job, and especially, ESPECIALLY, in their own minds. A good rule for judging that person is to look closely at who they were before in terms of the aspects I just mentioned, and who they turned into later. Many, if not most, can't handle the terrific stresses and they go haywire. Most of you have no clue. The Travis Walton case is one of the few where things went extreme, but where the subjectee was able to return pretty much to the core individual he was before the incident. Some of us don't survive, intact or at all.

The reason I feel that first contact has not been made openly to the private

sector is because the alien controllers are in control and have penetrated all

aspects of human life politically as well as the private sector without most

knowing. There is no need for open contact when you have secret control of

everything. How did these tall weird aliens back in 1954 penetrate the

protective veil by the overseers? ^Y^