It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Healthcare reform is a Trojan Horse for changing America forever...permanently

page: 1
5

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 08:41 AM
link   
Here is the link to the article. This Constitutional lawyer has read the entire House Bill 3200 and these are his conclusions:

216.221.102.26...


The most depressing ones I will quote here, go to the website to read the rest. Us fellow "tea baggers" are firmly grounded in our "assumptions"

"To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services,and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled.

"However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health
care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated. If this law or a similar one is adopted,major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.""


"This legislation also provides for access by the appointees of the Obama administration of all of your personal healthcare information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendments may provide."

[edit on 16-9-2009 by I_am_Spartacus]




posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 08:57 AM
link   
reply to post by I_am_Spartacus
 


Preaching to the choir here, brother.

S&F



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 09:21 AM
link   
And people say the nazi analogy is far-fetched and inappropriate!
Maybe Pol Pot would be a better example. Actually I'm glad that
they are being so overtly unconstitutional and deceitful about
all this. It just might prove to be the shove the public needed to
react strongly enoughto begin to harness our government instead
of it being the other way around.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 09:23 AM
link   
Oh, since this fellow says it, it must be true.... LMAO

This clown is just re-running the same old, tired, LIES about health insurance reform. Same old tune being played by just another 1 piece band.

More far-right lunacy. Scare the people to get our way.

More fearmongering lies being spewed by another huckster.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 09:39 AM
link   
reply to post by uaocteaou
 


By your avitar, may I correctly assume that you are for a government run system then? Please extol the virtues of said program.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 09:45 AM
link   
reply to post by mikerussellus
 


To use your logic, I would have to determine that you live in a toilet...

c'mon, be smarter than that. Judging someone by their avitar is about as shallow as a person can be, no?.

If you're against health insurance reform, fine. If you have problems with any or allof the bills currently under construction, fine. But at LEAST attack it on merits, specifics, not garbage fear tactics, speaking about what this will lead to, and what that will bring about.

This garbage is based on fear, not substance.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 09:49 AM
link   
reply to post by uaocteaou
 


People aren't afraid that it might be true, they're pissed because it might be true. Angry people voicing concern make the gov't fearful, which is why they want the people to shut up and will use any tool in their arsenal to that effect.

Besides, I'd rather be a right-wing lunatic than a bah-bah-blind sheep following the shepherd wherever he may lead - maybe even to the slaughter.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:01 AM
link   
reply to post by I_am_Spartacus
 


The law does provide for rationing of health care

As there will never be enough money to do everything for everyone all the time, does a bit of rationing not sound better at least than the rich have everything and the poor have nothing?



force private insurance companies out of business
B.S! Every country with a national health care plan still has private insurers for supplementals. Why wouldn't you too??


All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats
B.S.! again. All decisions about health care in Canada is made by physicians. Period.

I'm going to quit here. The whole thing is B.S.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:08 AM
link   
reply to post by uaocteaou
 


Point taken.*humble*

On it's merits then.
1. Bill does not address tort reform. Sure, Obama gave breathe to it during his speech, but seriously, if it were something substantial, then it would be in the bill. It's not even a talking point, as far as the house or senate is concerned.
2. Bill does not address interstate commerce. Allowing insurance companies to compete would lower costs and provide more options to those who don't have or even the ones that do have insurance.
3. The government wants control of the healthcare program in america. Obama and co. have stated time and time again how bad it is, how much better it would be (ie; medicare) if only the government was in control. Clintons tried it in the 90's. It didn't fly then, won't fly now.
4. There has been talk but no solid evidence to indicate that there would not be rationing. How can you maintain a finite resource with an infinite need? No honest actual numbers have been brought to the fore, there is rhetoric on both sides.

I think healthcare needs reform. Do I think Obamas plan will work? Nope. It does not address the key issues of cost (for the people or the government) it does not address regulation, other than penalties if you don't opt for the program, and it does not correct for illegals, abortion, optional programs like plastic surgery.

There. Points. No rhetoric, no fear. Facts (where they are provided) and only my honest opinion.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by uaocteaou
Oh, since this fellow says it, it must be true.... LMAO

This clown is just re-running the same old, tired, LIES about health insurance reform. Same old tune being played by just another 1 piece band.

More far-right lunacy. Scare the people to get our way.

More fearmongering lies being spewed by another huckster.


you do realize you brought nothing but baseless opinion to this argument, why not use some fact? all you do here is the same exact thing your criticizing



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:33 AM
link   

Originally posted by mikerussellus
reply to post by uaocteaou
 


Point taken.*humble*

On it's merits then.
1. Bill does not address tort reform. Sure, Obama gave breathe to it during his speech, but seriously, if it were something substantial, then it would be in the bill. It's not even a talking point, as far as the house or senate is concerned.
2. Bill does not address interstate commerce. Allowing insurance companies to compete would lower costs and provide more options to those who don't have or even the ones that do have insurance.
3. The government wants control of the healthcare program in america. Obama and co. have stated time and time again how bad it is, how much better it would be (ie; medicare) if only the government was in control. Clintons tried it in the 90's. It didn't fly then, won't fly now.
4. There has been talk but no solid evidence to indicate that there would not be rationing. How can you maintain a finite resource with an infinite need? No honest actual numbers have been brought to the fore, there is rhetoric on both sides.

I think healthcare needs reform. Do I think Obamas plan will work? Nope. It does not address the key issues of cost (for the people or the government) it does not address regulation, other than penalties if you don't opt for the program, and it does not correct for illegals, abortion, optional programs like plastic surgery.

There. Points. No rhetoric, no fear. Facts (where they are provided) and only my honest opinion.



I respect that you have addressed specifics, THOSE can be debated, unlike the extremes. right or left, that can't be.

#1 Torts.... Liability situations account for less than 1% of all health insurance expenses. But..... I'm all for some type of tort reform, but...

1 (a).. If a doctor is drunk, stupid or just irresponsible, there should be no limits on what a truly wronged person should collect... But, get rid of all the baseless garbage claims, I agree.

#2 If the system is rigged in favor of the insurance companies now, what evidence do you have that they would not just rig in on a national basis if they can sell anywhere.... But....

2 (a). Fine, open up interstate purchasing from any company, INCLUDING a non-profit public option, such as medicare.. AS ONE CHOICE.

#3 That's just more extremist garbage, IMO... "They want to take over", is just more opinion, structured to scare people... No Basis in truth.

#4.. I would submit that there's rationing now bro- The richest get whatever they want done, tests, procedures, whatever, and the poor and the middle class have to battle for what they NEED..

Edited to add... IT DOES address illegals... The bills clearly state that persons here illegally can not receive insurance benefits..

Abortion IS already addressed..... Federal funds can not be used to fund abortions.. That's already law.

While I don't agree with your position, I can talk about it with you, as long as the discussion in based on fact, not fear. Thanks Mike

[edit on 16-9-2009 by uaocteaou]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:38 AM
link   
reply to post by uaocteaou
 

In a nutshell the musician Immortal Technique says, we need to wake up and take some action before it's too late for us to do anything about it.

Just adding this because it was enjoyable, maybe someone else will enjoy it as well.


[edit on 16-9-2009 by warrenb]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:40 AM
link   
[
#3 That's just more extremist garbage, IMO... "They want to take over", is just more opinion, structured to scare people... No Basis in truth.



How many more communist mentors, crazy "czars", black liberation theologians, and terrorists buddies that surround obummer and make up his administration is it going to take for people to STOP saying it is baseless hyperbole. IT IS WHO THEY ARE!!

They think they know best and will control you to prove it!!!!!!!!!!!!! You don't need them to say "we are going to control you" to make it true, there is more than enough evidence to correctly surmise it. Use history as your guide and it will set you free...



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by uaocteaou
Oh, since this fellow says it, it must be true.... LMAO

This clown is just re-running the same old, tired, LIES about health insurance reform. Same old tune being played by just another 1 piece band.

More far-right lunacy. Scare the people to get our way.

More fearmongering lies being spewed by another huckster.


You are correct, sir.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:57 AM
link   

Originally posted by I_am_Spartacus
[
#3 That's just more extremist garbage, IMO... "They want to take over", is just more opinion, structured to scare people... No Basis in truth.



How many more communist mentors, crazy "czars", black liberation theologians, and terrorists buddies that surround obummer and make up his administration is it going to take for people to STOP saying it is baseless hyperbole. IT IS WHO THEY ARE!!

They think they know best and will control you to prove it!!!!!!!!!!!!! You don't need them to say "we are going to control you" to make it true, there is more than enough evidence to correctly surmise it. Use history as your guide and it will set you free...


I need emphasis on this.....



How many more communist mentors, crazy "czars", black liberation theologians, and terrorists buddies that surround obummer and make up his administration is it going to take for people to STOP saying it is baseless hyperbole. IT IS WHO THEY ARE!!


And you think THIS should be a part of reasonable debate on the subject?
If so, I disagree.

In fact, it's posts like yours that lead people to believe that Race is involved in Obama opposition..

Yep, it's the "Blacks" that we need to be afraid of..... And people say THAT'S not fear-mongering.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 02:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by uaocteaou

Originally posted by I_am_Spartacus
[



And you think THIS should be a part of reasonable debate on the subject?
If so, I disagree.


of course you do....


Originally posted by uaocteaouIn fact, it's posts like yours that lead people to believe that Race is involved in Obama opposition..

Yep, it's the "Blacks" that we need to be afraid of..... And people say THAT'S not fear-mongering.


Yes the party line towers and talking point regurgitators like to keep saying that. Race certainly is a part of obamas support, THAT is documented via his associations Once again, no logic nor self awareness from the "left"

We do not need to be afraid of 99.9% blacks, just the few black supremacists who hate white people, jews, etc like reverend wright (wrong). THEY are the real hate mongers.They should be "feared" like the very few white supremicists. Isn't this about equal opportunity, nope guess not.
geez I get so sick of pointing out the obvious.

[edit on 16-9-2009 by I_am_Spartacus]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:32 AM
link   
reply to post by I_am_Spartacus
 


That was the biggest bunch of right wing BALONEY I have ever read. Please come to the table with facts based apart from opinion. Why dont you post the bill instead of gobbling on some republicans interpretation of it?



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:03 AM
link   
Tripe.......

Don't you think it odd that a lawyer versed in "constitutional law" did not cite any specific sections of HR 3200 and explain why his interpretation is correct? Hmmm? In fact, he only offered as sources the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. He doesn't even have the academic integrity to link and source the actual bill.

What he does have is a new, soon to be released, fictional novel....described as;

a story of America set in the not so distant future. It is a story of the American people who sudddenly [sic] find themselves having to fight for the fundamental freedoms that they have always cherished and often taken for granted. It is a story of treachery, espionage, treason, tragic loss, and tremendous valor by the diverse people who are proud to call themselves Americans. Ultimately, it is a story of people who risk everything for liberty.


I'll give him some chops for having learned a bit about alliteration and foreshadowing.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:23 AM
link   

Originally posted by spinalremain
reply to post by I_am_Spartacus
 


That was the biggest bunch of right wing BALONEY I have ever read. Please come to the table with facts based apart from opinion. Why dont you post the bill instead of gobbling on some republicans interpretation of it?



As expected you party line hack democraps think that everyone against the bill and see it for what it is are repukulian hacks!!!

Funny how you accuse those who say they read the bill and know whats in it are imbeciles, etc., without having read it yourselves. Wake up and smell the stink, "your" party is not the democrats of old, they do not like America and want to turn it into France at best. If you are a true American, meaning you believe in what the founding fathers set up for us, then you would not blindly drool at the feet of your party masters, EITHER ONE!!!!!! Either learn about and appreciate, even with all its faults, what this country is SUPPOSED to be or go to one of the myraid of countrys who have already imposed this garbage system on their citizens.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by I_am_Spartacus]



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 04:53 AM
link   
There are several issues which should be addressed before any "reform" proposals are even considered:


1) Investigate the cause of rising costs, especially those which have occurred during this so called debate.

A) It would be foolish for insurance companies to increase their rates so much at this time.

B) Insurance companies were forced to increase their rates due to additional taxes levied upon them by congress as well as some state senates.

C) Proponents of reform as well as the news media have withheld these facts from the public.


This alone indicates we need political reform, not health care reform.


2) Does the President of the United States have the authority to interfere with private health care?
NO

3) Does the United States Congress have the authority to interfere with private health care?
NO

Any type of Federal Government health care reform is unconstitutional
President Obama and Congress are violating the United States Constitution
The United States Constitution specifically grants these powers only to the individual states


SEE US Constitution



new topics

top topics



 
5

log in

join