Che Guevara - The Racist, page 1


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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times


reply posted on 16-9-2009 @ 05:17 AM by Cythraul
reply to post by gusan


Gusan - these are actual quotes from the book, spoken by Che himself in his younger years. The only defence there is for it was that he was young at the time.

Sorry to expose your saviour as distasteful.



reply posted on 16-9-2009 @ 05:55 AM by pieman
before political correctness, casual racism and prejudice were fairly common. i think you'ld be hard pushed to find a public figure you couldn't find some reason to call racist before the 1980's.

ghandi
churchill
roosavelt

pick your favorite and type their name and "racism" into google and you'll probably get results.

that's the way the world was, sexism, racism & homophobia were the norm rather than the exception, even good men held abhorrent beliefs as truth. it shows how far we've come.


reply posted on 16-9-2009 @ 11:39 AM by Cythraul
reply to post by pieman


Poetic justice, because the type of person who often worships Che quite predictably uses the common argument about senior BNP officials, as an example, being members of the National Front in their youth.

Besides, I simply thought this thread might be enlightening for a few people. I'm not trying to demonise Che - I actually admire the man for making a difference. But this little bit of evidence gives enormous perspective to the modern-day clash of 'right' and 'left', whereby almost anything can be deemed 'racist' and is subsequently pounced on by 'left wing' activists. The perspective offered by this just goes to signify how loosely the term 'racist' is now used. If a prominent figure were now to make comments as openly racist as Che Guevara's, they'd be deemed so 'far right' that they'd make the BNP look like George Galloway's Respect party.

As ever, I only seek to help people open their eyes to the ridiculousness of 'left' and 'right', and the hypocrisy of the 'liberal' establishment.


reply posted on 16-9-2009 @ 12:57 PM by Cythraul
reply to post by pieman


That's one way of looking at it. Another is that both Che and Griffin broke away from what was accepted mainstream thought. Che turned from racism to 'internationalism' because he believed it would better the world. Griffin turned from modern liberalism/globalism to nationalism because he believes it will better the world. Your personal politics, pieman, do not negate the well-meaningness of someone else's. Though I suspect you consider nationalism 'evil' in any case.

Furthermore your analogy doesn't really fit because the grounds on which Griffin is labelled a 'racist' rather than merely a well-meaning ethno-nationlist are usually based on what he has done and said in his past. So he, like Che, has since become less racist also.


reply posted on 17-9-2009 @ 11:36 AM by Cythraul
reply to post by pieman


You contradicted yourself a bit there.

How has Griffin made the world better for himself? Death-threats, public and media scorn, violent attacks, prosecutions? If he were in it for selfish reasons it seems to me he could have chosen far more obvious political paths.


reply posted on 17-9-2009 @ 11:35 PM by theWCH
Originally posted by Cythraul
reply to
post by gusan


Gusan - these are actual quotes from the book, spoken by Che himself in his younger years. The only defence there is for it was that he was young at the time.


That's not true. The other defense is that that's how people thought at the time.

Things have changed, for the better, and I'd like to think that people can truly move above politics appreciate the change that has taken place over the past few decades.


reply posted on 18-9-2009 @ 03:00 AM by Cythraul
reply to post by justinsweatt


Thank you justinsweatt for bringing us back on point. I don't seek to blindly criticise Che because he has a different political worldview than I do, but if we can, objectively, I'd like to establish whether he really was the admirable man so many young 'revolutionaries' take him for.


reply posted on 18-9-2009 @ 04:35 AM by pieman
reply to post by justinsweatt



except the iconic image you're ripping off in your avatar!!



Originally posted by Cythraul
I'd like to establish whether he really was the admirable man so many young 'revolutionaries' take him for.


i think you need to question weather most people do think he's admirable. this thread is three days old and so far no-one has seemed all that shocked by what has been revealed.

i think your assumption that all left leaning people "worship che" is insanely wide of the mark.

te above image represents an archetype of youthful revolution, i don't think che, or what he believed, has anything got to do with it.

[edit on 18/9/09 by pieman]


reply posted on 18-9-2009 @ 05:58 AM by Cythraul
reply to post by pieman


Well excuse me, my personal experiences and observations simply indicate that Che is and has long been highly revered by many self-righteous members of my generation.

That this thread has attracted few replies doesn't really tell much, as with ATS there are so many factors other than the subject matter or importance of a thread that dictate how successful a thread will be.


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 11:28 AM by justinsweatt
reply to post by Cythraul



No worries and I like the idea of this discussion. Personally, I've read his works and I still find very little of his material that I find much to agree with.

I think you should be aware what sort of power an image can have and how it can undermine the tenants of the whatever ideals the group proposes. The problem with seeing that photo is that it does not evoke anything to me other than the exact opposite. It actually disgusts me that you have a group of young people going to shows and reading the thoughts of a mass murderer, especially when those very young people profess to have such feeling for the groups of people that may be class different, sexually different, or theologically different. The very fact that Che Guevara was quite explicit in his hatred for homosexuals and those "against" the state makes me not take seriously the message of whatever movement you might want me to become involved in.
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