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Why do People who Ridicule Conspiracy Threorists Hang out in 911 Forums and on ATS?

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posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 01:26 AM
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They hang out here because they are secretly hoping that someone will actually answer the questions that even they cannot convince themselves the lie to.




posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by CaptainAmerica2012
 
Because deep inside they know the truth but are both equaly terrified and curious at the same time... the mere belief that it might be true is met with denial and sometimes aggressivity because on an unconcious level they already aknowledge the way it would shatter they're beliefs and values... So they seek the net trying to find answers to questions they dont really want answers to... and when they read/find material that encompase too much on their beliefs well you hear from them...



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 01:44 AM
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I so hear what the OP is saying.

I personally don't believe in UFO's that are piloted by aliens from another planet, yet a huge part of ATS is dedicated to that subject.

I never post in those forums, nor do I have a desire to debate in any way shape or form the people that post in those forums.

If I went in there, based own my personal belief structure, I would just be trolling around and that just makes no sense.
I leave it alone.

The problem with the anti-truthers is they have provoked some good long standing members of ATS and got them banned, and that really ticks me off, because every post they make has a built in troll like quality for this forum.

Having a different opinion is one thing, but pushing people's buttons, to get them banned is just wrong, and I wish the MODS would have given some of the long standing members of ATS more leeway to their reactions, too the trollers.

9/11 has always been a very emotional subject, and it makes people very mad and upset either way.

No doubt it's been a very hard place to moderate, but we should remember why most people come to and post to this forum, because I would say at least 90% don't believe the government story anymore. And at least 80% believe it was "An Inside Job". We should never let 10% of the posters ruin things for us here at ATS.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by impressme
36% of Americans think 911 is an inside job well that is a whole lot of people we are talking about remember the population in the USA is around 300 million people so we are talking about one third of the population , not bad.

Yeah…
But nowhere near a majority, which means that my post was quite correct.


Originally posted by impressme
I am sure it is growing every day thanks to the truth movement on the internet. Soon the OS denial group will be all gone. I love it.

Yeah in your dreams.



Originally posted by impressme
Really, I was not aware the 911 Truth movement had religious leaders would you please post who they are. I had no idea the 911 Truth movement is that organized.

You bet they have religious leaders, they are a cult by the very definition of how they operate and how their member harass those who wish to be left alone. Example (since I know you will ask for one anyway):

Valencia M. McClatchey thought she was doing the right thing when she gave the F.B.I. a copy of her photo of the mushroom cloud that rose over the hill outside her home after United Flight 93 crashed in a field here on Sept. 11, 2001.
And, after it became apparent that hers was the only known picture of that ominous, gray cloud — and the first shot after Flight 93 crashed — she thought she was still doing the right thing when she gave copies to people who asked for them, and let newspapers and television stations use it.
But fame for the photo has had an unexpected cost for the photographer.
“Every time I’ve done any stories it goes online and all these conspiracy theorists start up and they call me and harass me,” said Mrs. McClatchey, 51, who runs her own real estate company.

In numerous online postings, critics have ripped apart every element of the photo, and Mrs. McClatchey’s life. They accuse her of faking the photo, of profiteering from it and of being part of a conspiracy to cover up the fact that Flight 93 was shot down by the government.
They claim the mushroom cloud is from an ordnance blast, not a jet crashing; the cloud is the wrong color for burning jet fuel; the cloud is too small and in the wrong position.
They’ve posted her personal e-mail, phone numbers and street address online. One Canadian “9/11 debunker” surreptitiously taped a phone conversation with her, quizzing her about the photo, and then uploaded it to his Web site.
“It’s just gotten so bad, I’m just fed up with it,” Mrs. McClatchey said. “This thing has become too much of a distraction in my life. I have a husband and a new business to deal with, too.”

Do normal, sane people act in this manner? The answer is no…
Fanatical religious zealots harass people to this extent.

As to the leadership, yeah you have a few. You don’t really need many in todays world, all that is required is posting that there is a poll on sites like ATS, GLP, Rense, etc. to reach your target crowd. The truthers on these sites stick together like the masons on here do… Just look at how the stars on this thread keep appearing on all the 911 truth supporter posts. Prime example.


Originally posted by impressme
Do you just make this stuff up out of thin air or do you have some proof about Ron Paul supporters did with polls during the election, I would like to see this information.

Just because you are ignorant of something does not make it untrue. I registered at the Ron Paul site as a supporter if he was going to be nominated. I received an email EVERYTIME there was a new poll, or anything else they wanted a big showing for. I still receive emails from these folks to this day. So yes, they were in fact spamming the online polls because their followers were active and zealous, but they hardly represented a true cross section of the actual American demographic.


Originally posted by impressme
You are only enlightening us with good info when you have proof which you did earlier I was amazed that you did find a percentage good for you.

I am not sure why that would amaze you? You obviously are pretty new here as I always backup my information with facts unless its strictly opinion or in violation of someone’s privacy. (for example the U2U I mentioned above will never be posted in its full form by me.)


Originally posted by impressme
You are Absolutely wrong. You only know a small handful of people and that dose not make you right.

Excuse me sir? How do you know who, or what I know? Awfully arrogant statement you make there. I used to run an entire airline ramp operation. I have worked on those specific types of aircraft, and possibly even those exact ones.


Originally posted by impressme
As far as your friend Weedwacker I do not find him creditable, not at all.

Funny, I had a U2U conversation with him back when he first joined, and he knew an awful lot of inside information about the airline we both worked for, and the station where I was located, which he would fly into. I have no doubt that WW is who he says he is.


Originally posted by impressme
We are not interested in what your friends think about 911 that really dose not help you any dose it.

These are both posters I met here. Both I have spoken with, and both have verified to my satisfaction that they worked for the same company and same airlines that I worked for. Including knowing mutual people. I have never met either of them in real life, but I have chatted with both extensively on ATS through threads, U2U, or in Chat. When none of the three of us agree with you guys, its speaks volumes IMHO.


Originally posted by impressme
That is not entirely true about FAA and our government. Who do you think put a gag order on the FAA?

The FAA is part of the government, the Airlines are not. The FAA has not put any gag order on airline personnel that I have heard of, and they certainly did not put one on me. Besides, show me proof of this gag order, sounds like more truther speculation IMHO.


Originally posted by impressme
No one said you did.

You implied it….

Originally posted by impressme
Most airlines Co have close connections with our government so; most pilots are not going to rock the boat for themselves.



Originally posted by impressme
Can’t handle the heat in the kitchen?

You’ve been in the kitchen for what now? 6 months…

Try it for a few years then let me know how fed up you get with it.


Originally posted by impressme
That my friend is a lie, and you know it. You Sir, show me and everyone in here where I have personally tried to silence any truth in these 911 forums?

You think that I have been on here for 6 months like you? No, I know the truther tactic quite well. When someone stands up to them, they wolfpack bait and harass until the person loses their temper, then start hitting that thread alert button with the same frequency that they all star each others posts. Standard operating procedure, and part of the reason I seldom post in the 911 forum anymore… Sad really.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 03:02 AM
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Originally posted by impressme
If you do not believe in the OS then you obviously believe in a conspiracy theory correct?

No. See that is what I am saying, there are more shades to this then black and white. Personally, I am sure that the official report has a lot of errors in it, but the basic premise of what occurred is true. I do not believe that the government was involved, however, I believe that there may have been complacency, or errors on their part that they would like to cover up.


Originally posted by impressme
Why do you “lump” every person who is seeking the truth about 911 that THEY ALL believe in such nonsense as holographs, rods from god, etc...

If you believe that the government was behind what happened that day, then you go over into the conspiracy area IMHO.


Originally posted by impressme
Then why do you act as if you are the foremost authority on everything about 911?

Please show me where I said I was?


Originally posted by impressme
If you don’t have all the answers to 911 then why do you criticizes, and ridiculed people for only assuming different views like you do then.

Truthers don’t just have different views…
They have different views that they feel compelled to constantly RAM down everyone’s throats. Most truthers consider themselves smarter then the rest of us “sheeple”, and pride themselves on pointing this out to everyone on a constant basis. If you refuse to accept the truthers view, you’re attacked, ridiculed, mocked, insulted, harassed, etc. Most truthers I have met, truly grind EVERYONE the wrong way.


Originally posted by impressme
I agree with you on that, but you forgot to mention that pilots are human to.
I have to wonder whom it was that was giving this “imperfect information”?

Imperfect information held by the guys in ATC, SAC, etc.
Imperfect information in the report due to lack of all variables, etc.
I do not know what pilots you are talking about.


Originally posted by impressme
So I guess that gets the government off the hook for not doing their jobs on 911 by protecting the American people and this county.

I think that they did what they could, in the time they had, with imperfect information, during a situation that had never occurred before.


Originally posted by impressme
So, the Vic Presidents stand down orders of an object heading into the Pentagon is meaningless.

I believe that this was a truther creation, and not a fact, but I could be wrong. I have stayed out of the 911 debate for quite awhile due to truth movement tactics in these threads.

However, if it really did occur, it makes sense.
What would you want them to do? Shoot it down over a populated area, causing even more damage then just letting it hit its target, and trying to evacuate that target in advance of its arrival.


Originally posted by impressme
The lies the pentagon told the 911 commission that where so criminal in their statements, that the 911 commissionaires demanded an investigation from the justice department.

I’d have to read more on that. What was specifically supposedly lied about? I can understand them not giving out information that compromised national security.


Originally posted by impressme
What are Truthers to you, lairs?

More like a mislead cult.


Originally posted by impressme
I do not believe the OS because it is so full of proven lies and defies physics, impossibilities, and it lacks evidences and creditable sciences.

Oh, you mean truther physics. Like the guy and his cardboard boxes?
Yeah, like towers are build like those boxes are, had the same surface strength, and were damaged in the same way.

A better example would be building a tower of playing cards then quickly knocking out the center layer of cards. You bet the rest of them would come straight down and fall in their own footprint.

How about the guys who had to fudge the fuel loads to show minimum amounts when most RON aircraft are ballast fueled the night before.

Or… Saying simple aircraft maneuvers are impossible.


Truth movement physics don’t impressme much.


Originally posted by impressme
You cannot prove that, there are no paid dissinfo agents on the internet or ATS you are only spewing your opinion that’s all.

Well I must be the only paid disinfo guy on here who was around before the truthers showed up in force. I guess they must have used those psychic viewer guys to know in advance to have me register here back in 2004.
Not to mention I guess I get paid for my many posts in topics such as religion. You know, about prophecy, where I (being a Historicist) think that the US is the Beast of Revelations…
But don’t tell my bosses I said so.



Originally posted by impressme
For whatever it is worth, then I would have to say people who believe in the OS are ignorant.

So you are smarter then the other 64% of the population…
Remember…

Originally posted by Defcon5
Most truthers consider themselves smarter then the rest of us “sheeple”, and pride themselves on pointing this out to everyone on a constant basis.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 03:21 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


Interesting drivel to say the lease.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 04:28 AM
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I believe that 9-11 was so traumatic to the majority of americans that it divided us into two groups. There are the people who saw thru the smoke screen and became furious, and then there are those who will defend what they were told until the bitter end.

I think on some level deep down inside they DO know what happened just as well as we do, and some part of them understands what that means. The majority of us have accepted that we live in a twisted three ring circus media brainwashing nightmare, that has stemmed from a fat bloated diseased system that has grown so far out of control for so long that there's barely a frame of reference left of what it once was.

Now imagine for a moment that your subconscious mind won't allow you to accept the truth, because you've spent your whole life in a deep REM state of american dream. You wake to see people smearing the name of their own country, claiming that criminal elements are working within it to do horrible things.
Aren't "rational" people supposed to just call us conspiracy nuts and walk away chuckling? What would cause someone to come defend the "truth" they have been spoonfed with such fervor?
Surely in a free, peaceful, just, enlightened, and democratic wonderland such as ours, a "truth" as widely known as the official 9-11 fairytale would never need to be defended right?


Truth is a funny thing.
Everyone seeks it, but some don't want it when it's given to them.


They come here with their questions, expecting someone to tell them that there is no boogeyman under the bed. That everything is alright and they can go back to sleep. And then when we tell them the truth they get mad at us because these weren't the answers they were looking for.


[edit on 17-9-2009 by ashamedamerican]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 04:32 AM
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Only question that gnaws is;are payments made per post or per line or salary for another position,which includes 'extracarricular volunteer activities'?
Lengthy rambling things,like a dieseling car that is parked but keeps on sputtering foul smelling,wasteful,but non productive and ultimately destructive gasps,poison the air and really do no good.Ya keep wishing it would stop,but another cough and a twirl and on it goes.
We"troofers" don't know what happened,how could we?All the big evidence was tampered with,steel whisked away,films confiscated,researchers(John Oneill) killed,etc.All we can state with certainty is Scientific laws which don't change(except to some on that day and repeatedly then)and what DID NOT HAPPEN.Remove the impossible and what remains,no matter how improbable,must be the truth.Not troof.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 04:37 AM
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Its very difficult to know the motives for individuals who engage in irresponsible debating methodologies on ATS over conspiracy theories. But regardless of the original motive, the fundamental reason for such behavior can be eliminated or at least greatly reduced by not engaging in online discussion with those users that are making irrational or irrelevant statements.

I'm a very new member of ATS but I have quickly discovered the wonders of the 'ignore' button. It is in bright red letters underneath each user. Click that 'ignore' button underneath the user you want to go away, refresh the screen, and like magic you no longer have to read their loudmouth posts in the current or future threads. The problem arises though when members I would never otherwise give the 'one click salute' start engaging in back and forth debate with members I have already ignored and they should have ignored a long time ago.

What happens then is a devolution from a high quality Socratic dialogue down into a hyper drama one might see on a reality tv show. This makes me think the honest truth seeking member is getting played by an agent provocateur member to ensure that no sound arguments are reached that reveal the truth that the agent provocateur is attempting to conceal. Of course no such playing will happen if agent provocateurs are quickly ignored when they first reveal themselves when they post blatantly illogical or irrational or irrelevant statements or engage in personal ad hominem attacks on other members.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 04:42 AM
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Thats what I have been saying all these many years. it makes no sense to say someone is innocent - when we have finger prints, DNA, Eyewitnesses, Physical Evidence, Perjury, Falsifying Offical Documents... my gosh, I think the list of charges was 22 pages long, and just about everyone of them have hard core provable in a court of law, so far - beyond a shadow of a doubt -- it qualify's for a lynch'n party. no need for a trial by jury when the evidence is so overwhelming and all the proof of guilt.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 05:10 AM
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Originally posted by Anti-Evil
Thats what I have been saying all these many years. it makes no sense to say someone is innocent - when we have finger prints, DNA, Eyewitnesses, Physical Evidence, Perjury, Falsifying Offical Documents... my gosh, I think the list of charges was 22 pages long, and just about everyone of them have hard core provable in a court of law, so far - beyond a shadow of a doubt -- it qualify's for a lynch'n party. no need for a trial by jury when the evidence is so overwhelming and all the proof of guilt.


The paragraph above is the reason why debunkers are here. This is a witch hunt. Twoofers are witch hunters. I stand in defence of every one you so wrongly accuse. If you want a trial get some evidence that will stand up in court.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 05:34 AM
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reply to post by ashamedamerican
 


It could be that you hit the nail on the head with your post, but slightly backwards. What I mean is that you do, in fact, have two groups. One group who thought that the US was this infallible giant that was invincible, and omniscience. Then you had those of us who knew there were chinks in the armor back then, and were not quite as shocked when something happened.

So the first group, who could not accept us getting sucker punched, came up with these grand conspiracies that the government did this to itself, so they could remain feeling secure in knowing the government was still all powerful. Meanwhile, those of us who had been around the field knew that there were problems back then, and it was only a matter of time until someone exploited them, and caught us off guard.

For example, this article expressing this exact concept here, from 2001:
Experts Blast Airport Security

On top of that, we had just come from the Clinton Administration, and as many know, they were busy for the previous 8 years dismanteling the Cold War military that we had been assembling since the late 40’s:


Former Reagan Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger said Thursday that ex-President Bill Clinton cut back the U.S. military so severely that it's now just a fraction of the size of the fighting force that won the Gulf War ten years ago.

"Just the Army alone that won the Gulf War along with 31 very fine coalition partners was over 900,000," he told WABC Radio's Sean Hannity. "And now it's under 400,000 - just about 400,000, which is a tremendous drop. And that's just one service."
The Reagan defense chief, whose new book "In the Arena: A Memoir of the 20th Century" catalogues the Clinton-era's military neglect, suggested the cutbacks were so debilitating they may have left the U.S. unequipped to fight a multi-front war against terrorism.

Weinberger gave Hannity an abbreviated version of the damages:
"We also lost air and sea lift (capacity). We don't have forward position troops anymore. We had a procurement holiday for two or three years in which we didn't acquire anything. And we cut our research and development expenditure that was responsible for those weapons that enabled us to win the Gulf War at such little cost."
"By every count," Weinberger said of Clinton, "he was very neglectful of the military. I don't think he understood it. I don't think he liked it. And it was a very bad period for the military. Morale was very low."

This was the military that was on station when 911 occurred.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 05:37 AM
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Originally posted by CaptainAmerica2012
Why do so many people who hate conspiracies and conspiracy theorists hang out here and trash people and threads




That is easy question to answer. It may be will sound a bit strange at first though.

The answer is in psychological field.
They are even more skeptical than "normal average" conspiracy theorist.

They question even conspiracy theories.

The reason they do it on conspiracy sites is easily explained as well. It is very likely they will get evidence and support in their mental process of going through fazes of skepticism than anywhere else.

They are valuable addition in a sense - they bring more skepticism and makes us do deeper research to get answers to their challenging questions and claims. It also makes normal conspiracy theorist more organized and make him present their theories in a more consistent manner.




[edit on 17-9-2009 by FIFIGI]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 05:54 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by ashamedamerican
 

So the first group, who could not accept us getting sucker punched, came up with these grand conspiracies that the government did this to itself, so they could remain feeling secure in knowing the government was still all powerful.


You have that all backwards I'm afraid.
It's the people who still defend the official story who need to believe that their government is "all powerful" as you put it.

I don't like to speak for other people but I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that I would prefer that it really was a bunch of opium riddled middle eastern suicide highjackers who were responsible.

The alternative means that our government is so corrupt, so weak and rotten from within, that a group of sick and twisted individuals with a deplorable agenda managed to execute thousands of their own countrymen in cold blood to further their own interests. These people can probably never be named, and will almost definitely never be brought to justice, which means they will grow bolder in time and become even more of a nightmare to contend with.

If I were making up my own alternative reality to comfort my delicate psyche because I couldn't handle the truth of the situation, why would I substitute one horrible reality, with one that is a million times more sinister and twisted?

Your rhetoric sounds great on the surface, but the logic behind your arguement leaves a little to be desired.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 06:32 AM
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Maybe 9/11 was not an inside job. Maybe the leaders of the world did not sell their souls to Lucifer.. Maybe they don't look toward the light bringer or dance naked in the Bohemian woods... Maybe financial executives from Madoff, to Enron to Worldcom to whereever never cheat, no one ever cooks the books. They would never go back on there words right? Maybe the television evangalists ('scuze mee spellin) really want me to go to heaven and see sunny Jesus. Maybe flouride is put in water for my healthy teeth. cause they care.. they do I tell you. I mean they would not make a product like flouride for kids if is was bad right? Maybe the UK gov't is paying doctors to give a flu shot cause... well, just cause. And Baxter and the big pharm companies really do want us to be healthy, and maybe diet cola is so I don't get fat, cause sugar is really bad and aspartame is better. Maybe Codex alimentarius is for the betterment of the planet. They would not lie about anything.. Maybe black ops in the CIA, NSA, NRO and such is a good thing designed to protect the better people that live in america cause they have it all figured out.. We all know that america is full of the smartest people in the whole wide werld.. duh, maybe the chemtrails are in my head and it's just atmosphereic conditions cause thats a paranoid black helecopter alien thing... cause there is no bigger picture. It's better to take 1 issue at a time and focus only on that so as not to cloud the mind with useless perspective of a larger context... what? I know that Fox news is fair and balanced and thats the truth. I'm a good, honest, hard workin lemming. Maybe the rockerfellers are a good example of the american dream. just cause they are ingrained into the county and govt and corporate world like a friggin family of ticks. maybe it's just a coincidence that all these folks; presidents, board members, heads of state, diplomats, and other folks in the elite positions are interrelated in some way.. and they go to meetings to better the planet, no one in any position of power ever lies. Everything is AS THEY SAY, all above board, no favors played. No one takes bribes because greed is bad and these people are benevolant and incapable of lies again and lies again and lies again. And they would not slap you in the face and tell you we wont slap you again and SMAK! hehe don't worry stupid, we wont slap you again... come here... SMAK! heh sorry man, we promise this time we wont smak you... come here... SLAP! haha you are pretty smart eh? come here... and obama is tha man yes we can can can... I mean I'm not sayin... I'm just sayin'... maybe... maybe not... i dunno never mind... cya ciao.. RDDS



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 07:04 AM
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This conspiracy forum is more that just discussions.

There is legitimate evidence found all over this and other boards.

Photographs, newspaper articles, research papers.

It IS the new battleground, and they know it.

It's a Catch 22 for the debunkers. The harder they
try to CYA and debunk the thread, the higher it rises
to the top.

There are good people from all over the world, trying
their hardest to expose attrocities in all forms of government.

And they do this for free. Their only gratification is that they
might open up someone elses eyes to the truth.

Can't say that for the other side.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by conar
 


Oh nice, thanx for that link, i've printed off the comission report, will make some good reading tonight



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by revdrdrsunshine
 


Maybe not all of that is true, maybe some of it is simply conspiracy theories.
I know Chemtrails, for example, are a BS conspiracy theory…
Maybe, even if some is true, its not all interrelated.
Like Aspertame and Bohemian Grove.
Though I suppose they might serve diet soda there…
However, I am pretty sure that all of it is off topic in a 911 thread.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by CaptainAmerica2012
 


Heres a simple answer and I wish I could prove it now, unfortunately this happened last year so can not now.

I have a website that I place info on from blogs to reliable sources.

Last year I made a post on ATS but a link I included went to my own website.

I have a tracker on my site which lets me know who has been on my site, country, isp, etc...

On this occassion one hit's pathway was from ATS to my site and the user was using a computer from the World Bank. (link to wiki)

S maybe sometimes these people who you think hate conspiracies are really just trying to keep you guessing and causing confusion.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by EvilTwin666
 


Maybe one of the janitors there enjoys reading ATS during his lunch break, or a normal employee. Could be something as simple as an executive getting a wireless router to use with his laptop, not knowing that he has to shut off broadcast, and someone across the street linking in without his knowledge. Crap like that happens all the time around here.

That is something I will never understand about ATS, why does the most spectacular answer always the first one presented when there are often more mundane answers that are even more plausible.




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