Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by Chevalerous
Certain chemical weapons were authorized, but never shipped. Pesticides aren't chemical weapons.
I don't care what you believe. I was just pointing out your gross exaggerations, lest some uninformed member believe them.
OK! let's help the readers to decide whats true or not! and who is right or wrong shall we?
you said:
Certain chemical weapons were authorized, but never shipped. Pesticides aren't chemical weapons.
Chemicals that are the main ingredient in chemical weapons was shipped from the U.S to Iraq my friend:
Quote myself from earlier post:
large quantities (300 tons) of 'Thiodiglycol or bis(2-hydroxyethyl)sulfide' from Alcolac International who knowingly were violating existing U.S &
International export laws and sold this illegally to Saddam - do you have the invoice for that as well?
Lawsuit: Firms sold poison gas ingredients to Iraq
HAGERSTOWN, Md. — Three companies illegally sold materials to Saddam Hussein's regime in the 1980s for making chemical weapons that were used to
carry out attacks against thousands of Iraqi Kurds and ultimately caused scores of chronic ailments, according to a federal lawsuit.
www.foxnews.com...
I don't know yet if complete constructed chemical weapons 'per se' was shipped from the U.S to Iraq since much of the chemical equipment was sold
as "dual use" but this is pure semantics in this discussion since many by U.S export Laws forbidden chemicals for chemical warefare was shipped and
later were
assembled to chemical weapons by saddams scientists with U.S knowHow knowledge in Iraqi petrochemical plant built by the American
corporation Bechtel
A 1994 US Senate report revealed that US companies were licenced by the commerce department to export a "witch's brew" of biological and chemical
materials, including bacillus anthracis (which causes anthrax) and clostridium botulinum (the source of botulism). The American Type Culture
Collection made 70 shipments of the anthrax bug and other pathogenic agents.
The report also noted that US exports to Iraq included the precursors to chemical warfare agents, plans for chemical and biological warfare
facilities and chemical warhead filling equipment.
Iraq's 1982 removal from Washington's official list of states that support terrorism meant that the Hussein regime was now eligible for US economic
and military aid, and was able to purchase advanced US technology that could also be used for military purposes.
Conventional military sales resumed in December 1982. In 1983, the Reagan administration approved the sale of 60 Hughes helicopters to Iraq in 1983
"for civilian use". However, as Phythian pointed out, these aircraft could be "weaponised" within hours of delivery. Then US Secretary of
State George Schultz and commerce secretary George Baldridge also lobbied for the delivery of Bell helicopters equipped for "crop spraying". It
is believed that US-supplied choppers were used in the 1988 chemical attack on the Kurdish village of Halabja, which killed 5000 people.
On March 16, 1988, Iraqi forces launched a poison gas attack on the Iraqi Kurdish village of Halabja, killing 5000 people. While that attack is today
being touted by senior US officials as one of the main reasons why Hussein must now be "taken out", at the time Washington's response to the
atrocity was much more relaxed.
Just four months later, Washington stood by as the US giant Bechtel corporation won the contract to build a huge petrochemical plant that would
give the Hussein regime the capacity to generate chemical weapons.
www.counterpunch.org...
"Mustard gas laced with a nerve agent has been used on Iranian soldiers ... a team of UN experts has concluded ... Meanwhile, in the Iraqi
capital of Baghdad, US presidential envoy Donald Rumsfeld held talks with foreign minister Tariq Aziz."
Large quantities (300 tons) of 'Thiodiglycol or bis(2-hydroxyethyl)sulfide' from Alcolac International were used to make a Mustard gas laced with a
nerve agent (could be the 'Cyanogen Chloride' or 'Hydrogen Cyanide' which the U.S also sold illegally to Saddam)
To quote myself from earlier post:
And what about the large shipments of 'Cyanogen Chloride' or 'Hydrogen Cyanide' - don't tell me that you have the invoices for that as well?
Then you are saying:
Pesticides aren't chemical weapons.
Well! that's not the whole truth is it? let's see:
Pesticides are the main ingredient of several nerv gases used in chemical weapons:
Chemical Warfare Weapons Fact Sheets - Sarin - GB Nerve Agent
Description:
Sarin was developed in 1938 in Germany as a pesticide. Its name is derived from the names of the chemists involved in its creation: Schrader,
Ambros, Rudriger and van der Linde. Sarin is a colorless non-persistent liquid. The vapor is slightly heavier than air, so it hovers close to the
ground. Under wet and humid weather conditions, Sarin degrades swiftly, but as the temperature rises up to a certain point, Sarin’s lethal duration
increases, despite the humidity. Sarin is a lethal cholinesterase inhibitor. Doses which are potentially life threatening may be only slightly larger
than those producing least effects.
usmilitary.about.com...
Then we also have a few chemicals that some define as both Insecticide/Pesticide:
Tabun - GA Nerve Agent
VX - Nerve Agent
And then we can argue if some other of the chemicals sold, should be classified as "ready to use" chemical weapon or not because that is silly &
unmature in this discussion we are having now about who's guilty to what!
And America is guilty to this! the same guilt that they share with England, Germany & France regarding these chemicals.
To say as you did that the Europeans are soley to blame is a neocon lie!
For example, parathion and malathion are very similar in chemical structure to the G-type nerve agents,
like sarin and soman both are
classified as
organophosphorus compounds with the pesticides substituting a sulfur atom for one of the oxygens in the nerve agents
(which was easy made by Saddam's scientists in the petrochemical plant built by Bechtel)
Since the main difference in classification between many Chemical Pesticides and a 'weapon class nerve agent' is how concentrated the Pesticide
is.
It was no match for Saddam's scientists to get higher concentrations from the Pesticide raw material that was shipped from the US
Since many other of the chemicals sold by the US to Iraq are classified as Pesticide/Insectcide found in many Nerve Agents you have to be an total
naive IDIOT to believe that the U.S didn't knew that these chemical were going to be used in chemical weapons by Saddam - as you can see, there are
also reports from the U.S. Senate hearings and congress that proves this.
The reagan adminstration knew all along what the purpose were for these chemicals since they were desperate to let Iraq win the war against Iran by
any means and costs!
And it's up to the reader to decide if they choose to believe this or not! I'm pointing out for the people, that you are not telling the whole truth
here.
They are quilty as hell! to say otherwise would prove that you are naive and are hell bent on defending the silly fairytale neocon classifications of
some weapon-class dual use chemicals and the semantics from the neocon puppets!
And that's why I think Wilson is an complete Idiot!
The US armed Iraq with bio and chemical weapons:
