I honestly don't give a rats furry butt about them killing each other over political views. Who cares about who said what to whom. I think both sides SUCK.

I just don't want them having their damned hands in my pocket!



[edit on 15-9-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
List the names, we do the research, and find some one worthy,
The rest need to go,
A lot of the tea partyers want this too.
VOTI
I have one in mind.

I'm originally from the deep south and am in contact with a dozen or so people who are 'tea partyers' and you know what they tell me they want? In their own words they want that god da^%@ N!g#@! out of the White House. Make no mistake, THAT is what they want. They are thrilled to have a movement which allows them to be racist in public.

Originally posted by reasonable

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
List the names, we do the research, and find some one worthy,
The rest need to go,
A lot of the tea partyers want this too.
VOTI
I have one in mind.

I'm originally from the deep south and am in contact with a dozen or so people who are 'tea partyers' and you know what they tell me they want? In their own words they want that god da^%@ N!g#@! out of the White House. Make no mistake, THAT is what they want. They are thrilled to have a movement which allows them to be racist in public.

That is scary to hear. But yes there are ignorant, fearful people who still think like that scattered here and there. Just as there are fearful, ignorant people with ridiculous beliefs scattered everywhere else in the world. The point is that someone has to build a bridge. If nobody wants to build the bridge then we will continue to have fear and ignorance as a way of life and we'd better get used to it cuz it leads exactly where we're headed.

JaxonRoberts, There may be a lot of Americans who fit and follow your descriptions, however, not all of us are in that category. I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh, Oprah Winfrey...puhleeez, and who is Glen Beck??
I don't listen to television or hollywood personalities for knowledge about politics.

Politicians are not honest people, once they have the money for campaigns, either above or below the table, they immediately begin to work for the influential people that paid their way. Nursing home administrators, oil field corporations etc. They have sessions, maybe work on some committees, decide the state vegetable, and then go home with a nice retirement salary.

I don't know that it is so much ignorance as selfishness that is the reason that changes aren't accomplished. The gay people are focused on their last minute frou frou, and politicians speak in favor of their needs and smile for the vote, mexicans want to be able to work here and not pay taxes and send their money to Mexico, and it was quite obvious in the last election that spanish was being spoken by politicians like it never was before, gotta get that % vote, and there are other special groups and everyone is looking out for themselves.

The tea party group was something like silly, if they really didn't approve of taxes, they should have done like me....don't file. Gotta take a chance once in a while to prove a point.

Anyway, that is all I wanted to say is you just lumped Americans in one gutless, ignorant crowd. Are you american?

Timely post for yours truly. I am out of here. I have accepted a controller position in the beautiful city of Amsterdam for a small electronics firm. The company is not providing for my move but what a small price to pay to get out of a soon to be third world country. you know they have more then two political parties in their legislature. They have national health care. They don't have draconian drug laws. It's clean. People are pleasant.I vowed after George Bush was "elected" to a second term that I would leave the country. I can't believe I finally did it. I love ATS for providing me with nothing but reasons for leaving. If this is a microcosm of America, America is seriously screwed. So have fun fighting over health care, abortion...ad nauseum, ad infinitum. I leave in two months. I can't hardly wait.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts


I was JUST AS PISSED whn Bush spent like a drunken sailor as well!!! In fact, that is one of my biggest complaints!!!!

His tax cuts set records for revenue collected by the Federal government. What's he do?? Pay down the deficit? Nope, to him is was a liscense to spend like a MADMAN.

I love it when folks point to low tax rates as a means to collect more taxes. If they are collecting more taxes exactly who got a tax cut? How many of us really made that much more permanent income during this period?

Tax collections don't mean squat. The majority of them come from stock market gains and losses. This means that the good times need to cover the bad times. The Bush tax cut instead gave away the extra money instead of keeping it available for a rainy day.

I personally feel that taxes are too high at all all levels. However if you don't cut spending along with tax rates eventually you find yourself paddling upstream. And as far as the wealthy paying more, they should, because they wouldn't be making anything without the people on the ground. They also use the infrastructure and govermental systems at a much higher rate then the people on the ground. The taxes we pay go to support there endeavors. They need to give back in a huge way.

Originally posted by concernedcitizan
Timely post for yours truly. I am out of here. I have accepted a controller position in the beautiful city of Amsterdam for a small electronics firm. The company is not providing for my move but what a small price to pay to get out of a soon to be third world country. you know they have more then two political parties in their legislature. They have national health care. They don't have draconian drug laws. It's clean. People are pleasant.I vowed after George Bush was "elected" to a second term that I would leave the country. I can't believe I finally did it. I love ATS for providing me with nothing but reasons for leaving. If this is a microcosm of America, America is seriously screwed. So have fun fighting over health care, abortion...ad nauseum, ad infinitum. I leave in two months. I can't hardly wait.

Congrats man! Get ready for the "Good riddance" & "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!" comments. As someone in your shoes several years ago, get ready to be stunned at your improvement in quality of life. It took me many years to say to myself 'it's ok to be this happy, it's ok not to fear everything, it's ok to trust people, it's ok to not have 2 SUV's and a 5,000sq foot house, etc etc etc'. Enjoy.

Democracy depends on faith in God and a great education, according to our founding fathers. That's why they pushed to have more Christianity and more schools. You couldn't become a state in this union until you could prove you did both.

Today, our churches are run down by the media, and our schools are deficient.

Who's surprised? Garbage in, garbage out.

For those of you who are complaining about faith in God and government spending on education, it is now coming back to you. Thanks alot.

For those of you who have faith, morals, standards, honesty, conviction, and believe in supporting higher education, kudos to you. You are the minority when it comes to a voice in our nation. Speak up.

Originally posted by reasonable

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
List the names, we do the research, and find some one worthy,
The rest need to go,
A lot of the tea partyers want this too.
VOTI
I have one in mind.

I'm originally from the deep south and am in contact with a dozen or so people who are 'tea partyers' and you know what they tell me they want? In their own words they want that god da^%@ N!g#@! out of the White House. Make no mistake, THAT is what they want. They are thrilled to have a movement which allows them to be racist in public.

Well that's them not us, let's leave them out of this.

Originally posted by concernedcitizan

If this is a microcosm of America, America is seriously screwed. So have fun fighting over health care, abortion...ad nauseum, ad infinitum. I leave in two months. I can't hardly wait.

Mmm, I've lived half my life of 42 years in Europe (Greece, France, Italy, UK) and the other half in the US and I can tell you this for sure ... people deep down, for better or worse, are the same everywhere. They share the same fears, kindness, hate, intelligence, etc ... Though it may seem to you right now that you are getting off a car and into a limousine, I assure you that that is not the case. You are going from one make of car to another.

That doesn't mean that you will not prefer this new car, as most people in the short term prefer the unknown rather the the crappy car they are used to. However once you realize that since people are part of this equation you are sitting in precisely the same car you were in before simply dressed up in different colors.

And you might prefer this color and in fact be happier living in Amsterdam, which by the way is a wonderful city, than where you are today. But if you would allow me the presumption, I would caution you to temper your seemingly high expectations of what awaits you on the other side of the Atlantic.

And this brings us back to the original topic raised in the OP, namely expectations.

As is obvious on this thread and in the nature of present political discourse across the nation, we are a country that has yet to agree to even what we should expect from our government, if anything. One third of political discourse in the US revolves around the size of government, one third around ideology and policy, and the last third on general all around fear based jackassery.

This is in part due to some ambiguity and room for interpretation built into the constitution and amendments. There is a paradox lying therein, that to practice such constitutional subtlety requires more political maturity than the US has had time to evolve into. This element, the relative youth of this nation, is in my opinion a rather significant one.

Eventually, and like a lot of European nations, and through the passage of time, we will have to agree on what we want the scope of our government to be. Until that happens, discussing political ideology and policy will remain a fleeting, frustrating, and circular prospect because it will always be built on shifting premisses.

It should not be lost in this debate that this present condition has and is easily exploitable by whomever the ptb is. For as long as we exist in this state of fundamental indecision we are MUCH easier to divide and manipulate.

So it's not so much that we "Americans are Ignorant, Lazy, Gutless Cowards who live in Fear" as much as we are teenage boys ... sometimes insecure, uninformed, confused, awkward, aggressive, and all around a little immature ... but we'll get there.

2 drachmas.


[edit on 15 Sep 2009 by schrodingers dog]

Politicians are not honest people, once they have the money for campaigns, either above or below the table, they immediately begin to work for the influential people that paid their way. Nursing home administrators, oil field corporations etc. They have sessions, maybe work on some committees, decide the state vegetable, and then go home with a nice retirement salary.

The above quote pretty much says it and most of us know it, unfortunately

And yes, it's been the same, mostly, all the way. In the past though, due to limited media penetration, many people didn't realise how it was.

In fact, weren't we taught as children that it's bad-form to discuss 'money, religion and politics' ? And wasn't politics believed to be 'for men' .. with many women viewing politics as 'not quite a nice topic' and voting the same as their menfolk or not at all?

Politicians dressed conservatively and said all the 'right' things .. the things the public wanted to hear and believe. The media covered politicians' backs unless word went out that this or that politician was fair game and to be discredited. The public was 'shielded' from the ugly truth -- the affairs, the corruption, the murders, the threats and bribes, the deals.

Big companies and the banks were portrayed as 'trustworthy' -- doctors and scientists too. 'Our' side in any war was always the 'right' side, sanctioned by none other than God itself.

When tv entered everyone's living room, politicians (who until then had been just 'trustworthy' voices on the radio) had their teeth fixed, developed a 'healthy tan' and got someone to 'do' their hair. Appearances now counted for more than substance.

Now, despite all their efforts to keep us happy and shut us up, politicians are sick of our endless demands and scrutiny -- they've had enough of trying to please us and just want everything to go back to the way it was, when politicians were all-powerful, never to be questioned, obeyed, gods.

You can see them trying to wrest back 'control' of the herd (yes, we are the herd) with every passing day. If they had their way, they'd hold office for life and the vote would become a thing of the past.

They're not interested in our opinions or our welfare and feel it's gone too far when we expect them to be, instead of blandly accepting their rubbish the way everyone used to.

It's a case now of 'them' or us. They figure they're going to win and we're going to shut up and obey.

So basically, this is the period of 're-training for politicians' .. except they're refusing to accept that. They figure they're going to scare and brow-beat us into the ground and beat us to the punch.

Yes, we were dumb. But we're getting smarter by the day. We're like teenagers who question their parents. And tomorrow, we're going to be adults. We scare politicians to death. They want to 'deal with us' by taking away our toys .. our internet, guns, education, information, knowledge, connections, networks. But we are going to win .. keep that at the front of your mind .. we are going to win. We always do








[edit on 15-9-2009 by St Vaast]

Does anyone here actually know any politicians?

First you need to realise that you are in charge and not them. You have all the power, the power to hurt them where it hurts but you would rather not because it would lead to hardship and suffering for "you". Let me explain, if you will.

Just for a second stop and think about how rediculous it is that a supposed 2,000,000 people march on DC to let TPTB know how pi**ed off they are...and they call it a TEA PARTY !!!!!!!!!!! how absurd is that? lets call them freedom marches or warning marches but Tea Partys!!!.

You, as individuals living in America have the ultimate power to bring them all down...its simple ...down tools and strike, refuse to pay taxes, take your money out of the banks, refuse fear and win.

Before anyone comes back with well "What have you ever done"?

I was on the poll tax lines when we kicked thatchers ass. I was in London when the met pushed over a citizen and killed him. So, yes I have stood my ground. We Scots always have and always will.

Respects