The Problem With the 9.12 Movement

Protesting has been around for a while. During the Bush administration, the same comparisons to Hitler/Stalin were used often. But, this time...things are different.

The protests of the last administration were covered in the media, just as these ones are. The difference this time is simple, FOX News. Instead of just covering the story like all other media did and even like they did during Bush's protests, they are fanning the flames of hatred.

"But Scopeless, there IS something wrong in the country, blah blah blah..."

I believe that, I do. But, now you have given the protests a mouthpiece (calling them true Americans, patriotic, their "duty" to protest), without actually explaining the problems. What this creates is a bunch of angry people with really random and untrue reasons to protest. (He's a Muslim, Muslims will invade, Death Panels, etc.) This should be about spending massive amounts of money at a time when we can ill afford to. I fear that FOX News may have created a hateful monster that is dangerously close to becoming out of control.

When you have the people arguing non-sense instead of policy, no actual truth is revealed and no actual policy will ever be created.

reply to post by Scopeless

Protesting has been around for a while. During the Bush administration, the same comparisons to Hitler/Stalin were used often. But, this time...things are different.

Its not different. You just support the party that controls the government now.

The protests of the last administration were covered in the media, just as these ones are. The difference this time is simple, FOX News. Instead of just covering the story like all other media did and even like they did during Bush's protests, they are fanning the flames of hatred.

These protests aren't really covered in the MSM though. They are attacked and put below the fold of newspapers. For example:



The New York times buried the Tea Parties, but played up a much, much smaller pro-Obama rally.

NY Times Buries Massive Conservative D.C. Rally, Hails Smaller Liberal Protests

The print edition wasn't much more forthcoming. Although the Washington D.C. Fire Dept. estimated 60,000 to 70,000 people attended the 9/12 protest, and many estimates are higher, the Times made do with one medium-sized story buried on page A37 of the Sunday paper

The atmosphere was rowdy at times, with signs and images casting Mr. Obama in a demeaning light. One sign called him the "parasite in chief." Others likened him to Hitler. Several people held up preprinted signs saying, "Bury Obama Care with Kennedy," a reference to the Massachusetts senator whose body passed by the Capitol two weeks earlier to be memorialized.

Now look at how they reported the other rally:

Thousands Rally in Minnesota Behind Obama's Call for Health Care Overhaul,

Thousands of roaring supporters turned out Saturday to rally behind President Obama's call to overhaul the nation's health care system, packing a basketball arena here as Mr. Obama warned that nearly half of all Americans under 65 could lose their insurance at some point during the next decade....On a day when demonstrators crammed onto the west lawn of the Capitol to protest what they regard as Mr. Obama's brand of big government, including his health plan, the images of screaming, cheering Obama supporters here provided a welcome visual counterpoint for the White House. The White House estimated that 15,000 people attended the rally here

Its clear that they are taking the position of attacking the anti-Obama protesters, while supporting the pro-Obama protesters. This is no different than when Bush was president. The MSM supported and advertised the anti-Bush protests constantly. It wasn't just one network like Fox either, it was a dozen networks, print media AND Hollywood! Do you honestly beleive the MSM wasnt "fanning the flames of hatred" against Bush? If so, you have a rosy colored view of recent history.

Could you point us to the MSM reports that attacked anti-Bush protesters as racist, evil, nazis or any of the other foul insults lobbed at anti-Obama protesters? By all means, if it exists, share it with us.

I believe that, I do. But, now you have given the protests a mouthpiece (calling them true Americans, patriotic, their "duty" to protest), without actually explaining the problems.

What this creates is a bunch of angry people with really random and untrue reasons to protest.

So, because you don't agree with them and the media attacks them, all their arguments are illegitimate? Do you think that you are the arbiter of all that is true and right? If you don't agree with it, its got no substance?

(He's a Muslim, Muslims will invade, Death Panels, etc.) This should be about spending massive amounts of money at a time when we can ill afford to. I fear that FOX News may have created a hateful monster that is dangerously close to becoming out of control.

Ok, first of all I don't know anyone who seriously uses the Muslim thing as an argument. The only people I ever hear bring it up are the pro-Obama media and his supporters. Secondly, this is about massive spending. What you're doing is watching MSNBC and trusting them when they pick 5 people out of thousands and claim its the norm. Where as they did just the opposite for anti-Bush protesters, ignoring all the crazies and painting the rest as heroes of democracy.

Another thing, what does Fox have to do with death panels or Muslims? They aren't preaching anything like that. They have brought up the fact that rationing could be a problem and even democrats acknowledge that, which is why it was removed from the bill!

The only people I see preaching hate are on ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CNN and CBS. They spend every night attacking Obama's critics as racists! What can be more hateful then to generalize millions of people, based solely on their skin color?














[edit on 15-9-2009 by Wimbly]

reply to post by Scopeless


The current protests are driven by fear and a desire to bring Obama down, no matter what the cost. Whether this desire is driven by his race or his party or a combination of the two is almost beside the point.

I don't put much stock in these protests for the simple reason of the massive hypocrisy involved.

These people are whining about driving up the deficit, when they were strangely silent, or actively supported, driving up the deficit for an illegal war of aggression against a sovereign nation.

So they clearly don't have a problem with exploding the deficit, they have a problem with the reason for it.

Now, we have this massive problem. I'm no economist, but it seems like the forest fire approach may make some sense... often, when a fire is out of control, backfires are started as a means to get some control... normally, starting a fire is considered a Bad Thing. But sometimes, in some circumstances, that's the best way to get a raging mess under control.

reply to post by Open_Minded Skeptic

These people are whining about driving up the deficit, when they were strangely silent, or actively supported, driving up the deficit for an illegal war of aggression against a sovereign nation.

They weren't silent and did protest Bush's TARP1. You talk about hypocrisy, yet were did all the outrage over wiretaps, the wars, rendition, gitmo and spending go? It all seemed to stop once Obama got in to office.

So they clearly don't have a problem with exploding the deficit, they have a problem with the reason for it.

Thats just not true. You watch too much MSNBC. However, yes tey do have a problem with tripling the debt, in order to give the government power over people it will never let go of.

You want to heap all the hypocrisy on these protesters, but what happened to all the outrage over debt under bush? Its 3 times what it was under Bush in the span on 9 months!

reply to post by Wimbly


I did not say anything about TARP, did I? No. I said these people did not protest exploding the deficit in order to wage an unnecessary war.

If they protested further explosion of the deficit due to TARP, that merely confirms my original point that they care less about the actual deficit than they do about the reason for it.

And the reduction of outrage of the wiretaps, etc? Yes, also hypocrisy on the part of those people, definitely.

You have no idea how much, if any, MSNBC I watch.

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
reply to post by Wimbly

 

I did not say anything about TARP, did I? No. I said these people did not protest exploding the deficit in order to wage an unnecessary war.

It's a partisan movement, pure and simple.

The majority of the people protesting now weren't complaining when Bush actually ran up the deficit, because he is a Republican. They are complaining now that Obama is running it up, because he is a Democrat. Likewise, the majority of Democrats who were complaining during Bush's presidency are no longer complaining during Obama's, for the same reason.

The only ones I have any shred of respect for are the ones that protested during both. It really is sickening how easily led the people are, all it takes is a D or an R to get people riled up.

If any of these people actually cared about our country, they would have been out protesting on 9/12/01

It is a partisan movement for the most part. But make no friggen mistake that the people are rightfully upset at wreckless spending and a plight to government control and taxation. Those are real issues and real concerns. I look at the 9/12 project people are in the waking up phases of what is really going on.

When they realize they are being used and manipulated in their emotions, hopefully they will learn to be their own leader. I respect the tea party protesters, and the 9/12. Remember what you felt like when you heard of the first conspiracy and really believed it? Well this is what is happening with this group. They are jumping at anything tossed at them, thinking it could be true. Give it some time, they will become better educated on the subjects they are upset about. Then they will realize they were a pawn for someone else's agenda.

Originally posted by Wimbly
reply to post by Scopeless

 

The protests of the last administration were covered in the media, just as these ones are. The difference this time is simple, FOX News. Instead of just covering the story like all other media did and even like they did during Bush's protests, they are fanning the flames of hatred.

These protests aren't really covered in the MSM though. They are attacked and put below the fold of newspapers.

What I'm saying is that the protests were brushed over during the Bush admin, too. I'm actually agreeing with you.

What this creates is a bunch of angry people with really random and untrue reasons to protest.

So, because you don't agree with them and the media attacks them, all their arguments are illegitimate? Do you think that you are the arbiter of all that is true and right? If you don't agree with it, its got no substance?

I agree with them on a broad level. But, I fear that some of their arguments are misguided or even wrong. Yes, people do use the Muslim line or that Muslims will invade. In fact, it's mentioned in some tea party videos posted on this site. I feel like you are using a confrontational tone for no reason. I AGREE WITH THEIR CAUSE. Just not their reasoning. I'm tired of a member of media going into a crowd and finding the people that have no clue why they are really protesting and just make something up. That is why I made this thread. I am kind of calling on all the protesters to become highly educated on one subject. The problems of this government. Only then will the MSM take them more seriously.

That, or leaving flaming bags of poop on the steps of the white house.


[edit on 17-9-2009 by Scopeless]

Originally posted by Wimbly
Its not different. You just support the party that controls the government now.

right, because the Republican speakers and organizers at this party, along with the republican mouthpieced media is obviously an exception to this "two party" analysis of yours?

Maybe common sense would take us to recognize partisan sponsored (or hijacked) events.

SG

reply to post by Wimbly


Wow, nice response. There is a clear bias on the part of the media. They are not covering several stories that deserve attention. It seems everyone chooses a side when the side we should all be on is America's. They (tptb) love to see fighting across political lines. It helps them control the masses. Both parties have participated in what looks like a problem that will bring this country to its knees. Something big is going down and both parties are involved. The 9-12 ers that I know agree. The republicans are trying to latch on to the movement for their own gain. I think we should get rid of all of them and start over with people who want to represent the people and not the special interest groups that have taken over. America is in trouble. I hope the country can wake up before its too late. Then again, maybe it already is!