Civilize the Savages

I was thinking about the idea of civilizing savages. People can define "savage" in a variety of ways, true, but i was looking at more recent examples.

Japan & Germany WW2: the Nazi Party & imperial Japan, although modern in most ways of the time, had a "savage" mentality. Now, these countries are "civilized" in their mentality.

The war in Afghanistan/etc: the Taliban/Radical-Islamists have a "savage" mentality, and we are trying to "civilize" them. . . we shall see if it works.

The problem arises with defining "savage". Some might say pro-choicers are "savage" or gun-owners are "savage". . . and this is where arguments arise.

But most of the time it is obvious. Slaughtering minorities in genocides, or suicide bombings for the emperor, have a "savage" mentality. I also think stoning adulterers, lynching homosexuals, blowing up minority religions' houses of worship, etc. are "savage" in mentality.

So the war in Afghanistan/etc might be attacking the worst of the modern "savages" to "civilize" them. The oil-control-theories/terrorism-theories might just be a front. We probably have plenty of oil in Alaska & offshore, and we could easily wipe-out the terrorists if we really wanted.

Maybe the mentality of the elites hasn't changed since the Europeans last century were trying to "civilize the savages" all over the world.

But most of the time it is obvious. Slaughtering minorities in genocides, or suicide bombings for the emperor, have a "savage" mentality. I also think stoning adulterers, lynching homosexuals, blowing up minority religions' houses of worship, etc. are "savage" in mentality.

So lynching people based on skin color isn't a savage mentality? Or what about denying two people the right to get married because they are off the same gender? What about banning George and the Giant Peach? (i LOVE that story)?

Oh, i got another one, you'll like it. What about topping ling legitimate foreign regimes so you can replace it with one that favors your ideals and most importantly..your pocket book?

So the war in Afghanistan/etc might be attacking the worst of the modern "savages" to "civilize" them

"Modern savages". Do you have any idea how ethnocentric that idea is? I'll tell you. The vibe i'm getting from what you posted is that if anyone doesn't do what you do, they are just labeled as savages.

But then again, i don't think you are open to the cultures of other people. You just judge the actions of other cultures with your own cultural pretexts.

You will have to explain this "civilize" and what your trying to imply. There was a major human civilization on every continent on our world minus Antarctica and Australia (as far as we know).

So the war in Afghanistan/etc might be attacking the worst of the modern "savages" to "civilize" them. The oil-control-theories/terrorism-theories might just be a front. We probably have plenty of oil in Alaska & offshore, and we could easily wipe-out the terrorists if we really wanted.

America has enough oil within it's borders to slack it's own thirst. The problem is is that extracting oil takes a terrible toil on the environment..that's why most of our oil comes from the middle east. Very little ecology going there, just drill and pump.

And for my closing statement, by what you have just stated we are all savages..

Those old skool European elites looked at everyone that wasn't white as savages. The word "savages" is what they used to dehumanize those that were different from them, making them less than human. That way when they would send YOU out to fight them it makes you cold and impartial to what you are doing. Killing a savage is alot easier than killing Bob, Jamal, Ricky or even Wang. It makes it impersonal (is that even a word? Phage were are you!)



[edit on 14-9-2009 by cenpuppie]

reply to post by cenpuppie


I don't agree with all I stated. I was stating what I think the elites think about, if that makes sense. To understand what's going on, you should put yourself in the mentality of those who think they are above the rest of humanity. That's simply what I was trying to do.

Of course, as I mentioned, some might say it is "savage" to be:

pro-choice
pro-guns
anti-guns
anti-gay-marriage
etc
etc

These are all a matter of opinion. When does life begin? Are guns needed? Should marriage be legal, or should the churches decide who can get married, as in separation of church & state? etc...

There are certain things people CAN agree on, as I've mentioned. Sure, if America let people VOTE on if we should nuke Iran, we would all say NO, hopefully. But our leaders might disagree. Maybe our leaders are savages.

Anyway, my point about Afghanistan/Tribal-Pakistan/etc being "savages" goes with basic human rights that we in America take for granted. Sure, American ELITES do some evil things, but let's compare our human rights here to Afghanistan/etc:

It's okay to stone a woman who commits adultery, even if she was raped.

It's okay to behead someone who questions Allah, Muhamed, the Koran, or who converts to another religion.

It's okay to blow up a church, or charge an extra-high tax on Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, and any other non-Muslim.

It's okay to KILL homosexuals. (and while WE argue about marriage, homosexuals get slaughtered just for coming out of the closet.)

It's okay to thoroughly beat your wife if the does not obey you.

It's okay to blow yourself up, as long as you take some infidels with you.

---Seriously, we argue over petty stuff. Imagine how people live in 50% of the world where there is NO freedom!!

I'm NOT saying America is the greatest possible utopia, but look at some of these other places, and you'll be glad to have ANY freedom at all.

I feel bad & sorry for the innocent civilians who are suffering, and I'd like their lives to include some basic human rights that all people deserve. That, I'm sure, we should agree on.

Hi there
surely we are here to make a difference. If someone beliefs in Progress...well
That wars, or if you prefer "missions" i Irak and Afganistan have nothing to do with "civising" the savages.
And surely its all about taking away the influence zones form Russia, opium controling and petrol...nothing more...a bit like Imperial Roman occupation of Galilea...
Do their, talibans sages have too, asked imperial...I mean American commander to crucified....kill I mean, that afgan youths who converted to Christianity????
There is moral obligation of cultural, and civilising mission but it was not the case neither in Irak and Afganistan, nor i Kosovo...
All you fanatics of tolerance and intercultural dialogue can jump and shout as much you want but the reality is the cultures are not equal.

If there is problem with antiamerican regime(in reality- antizionist)in some "cannibalsland" after its "liberation" by the western soldiers only actions taken will be replacing the"bad"cannibal leader with the "good" one (read: friendly to Washington and Haifa), and training of the new "democratic cannibals republic army" and "new cannibals police" or are we- the Western People obliged to change their ways, to educate them starting from banning most of their primitive unhuman traditions?!
I think the second way is our obligation do we use any pompous words like MISSION or not...
What say you?

Who cares?! There are people who'll never be ready. Just look at the hicks.

Follow the Federation Prime Directive, that's what I always say.

reply to post by bettermakings

I don't agree with all I stated. I was stating what I think the elites think about, if that makes sense. To understand what's going on, you should put yourself in the mentality of those who think they are above the rest of humanity. That's simply what I was trying to do.

Ah, sorry for that then. It messed me up because you had that train of though going, then i saw your avatar i was what in the world, heh. Being friends is alot easier than being enemies..for me at least.

I'm NOT saying America is the greatest possible utopia, but look at some of these other places, and you'll be glad to have ANY freedom at all.

I feel bad & sorry for the innocent civilians who are suffering, and I'd like their lives to include some basic human rights that all people deserve. That, I'm sure, we should agree on.

100% on that one.

It's okay to stone a woman who commits adultery, even if she was raped.

It's okay to behead someone who questions Allah, Muhamed, the Koran, or who converts to another religion.

It's okay to blow up a church, or charge an extra-high tax on Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, and any other non-Muslim.

It's okay to KILL homosexuals. (and while WE argue about marriage, homosexuals get slaughtered just for coming out of the closet.)

It's okay to thoroughly beat your wife if the does not obey you.

It's okay to blow yourself up, as long as you take some infidels with you.

---Seriously, we argue over petty stuff. Imagine how people live in 50% of the world where there is NO freedom!!

Can't go that far, we aren't free, what we have are merely the illusions of freedom. As long as we act within a set of predetermined laws then are you free..free to work, free to eat, free to have sex (ha!). But act outside those laws, outside those regulations and you get punished. What is the point in having a law if it isn't enforced? Those laws are theirs, that's why it's called Afghanistan and not America.

Sure, American ELITES do some evil things, but let's compare our human rights here to Afghanistan/etc

Do you really want to let the skeletons in that closet out? If you want to see what American ELITES do, especially to other countries look up the Iran Contra scandal, and thats just what they got caught doing, not telling what they did and got away with..and that's just the ELITES. What average Joe Citizen has done is just as gruesome.

Even though we clash on some aspects of what you posted, we still see eye to eye on some issues, and that's what it's all about.