Dulce, New Mexico - Important Data that You ATS People DON'T Have Yet!!, page 8

reply to post by Phage

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Elevation and length of runway?? The relationship please?

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by Telos

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Youtube? Books? Hey, fiction is fiction.

There is nothing, I repeat, nothing in this thread that convinces me there is anything to Dulce other than a rumor that won't die kept alive by people who want to believe.

I already debunked the main premise of this thread (earthquakes to build the base). Must we really carry on with this nonsense?

You didn't debunk anything. Nothing. You don't know nothing about the whole story, just your conviction that there is nothing out there. That's the main reason why I said read the book. The amount of information there is huge. And a little advice, if you think that there is fiction or that we have to shut our mouth then don't bother participating in this nonsense. Open a more intelligent and 'valid' thread and let the others get informed wherever they want. This board has a staff that decides what thread stays and what not.

reply to post by infinite8

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At higher elevations air is less dense. Because the air is less dense, aircraft must have a higher ground speed in order for the wings to create enough lift to take off. Engine thrust also decreases due to the thinner air so it takes longer accelerate to flying speed. This means that the runway must be longer.

Note that at Denver (5,431 feet), the shortest runway is 12,000 feet long while at Dulles (313 feet) the longest runway is 11,500 feet long.




[edit on 9/19/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by Telos

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A thread was started with the theory that a secret underground base was created using explosions and said explosions took place during the 60s. Further, said explosions showed up as earthquakes. Without argument, I clearly debunked that theory since all the earthquakes indicated were really one big quake early in 1966 and numerous aftershocks.

I'm not wasting my time debunking the rest of the Dulce garbage, just this particular thread.

reply to post by Telos

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My analysis is flawless. I take one point and debunk it. The fact this goes over your head is not my problem.

There are plenty of UFOs out there, but of course they are man made.

Alex Collier mentions Dulce, New Mexico in this lecture. All he says is that he wishes the other speakers would have talked about because he doesn't want to talk about it, "there was some sick stuff going on there" is all he says about the subject. So you are probably on to something.

www.ustream.tv...

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by Telos

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My analysis is flawless. I take one point and debunk it. The fact this goes over your head is not my problem.

There are plenty of UFOs out there, but of course they are man made.

Sure my friend.

And the Moon is made of cheese

[edit on 20-9-2009 by Telos]

reply to post by BlasteR

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Isn't the risk of unexploded ordnance too high to let them test them at Groom Lake. For instance, you don't want a plane making an emergency landing having to avoid a bombing range.

They had a Nellis predator crash over Ft. Irwin a while back and EOD was needed to reach the craft. Not a good idea if the plane was manned since waiting for EOD would cause delay.

Seems to me this is plenty of room on the Nellis bombing range and from the distance, experimental weapons wouldn't look particularly different from established weapons. It would actually make more sense just to bomb an established range since that would be hiding in plain sight. Should any observer catch a bomb going off at Groom, it would be big news. Plumes can easily be observed from route 375 as evidenced by crashes on the range have been detected from the Tikaboo valley.

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by BlasteR

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Isn't the risk of unexploded ordnance too high to let them test them at Groom Lake. For instance, you don't want a plane making an emergency landing having to avoid a bombing range.

They had a Nellis predator crash over Ft. Irwin a while back and EOD was needed to reach the craft. Not a good idea if the plane was manned since waiting for EOD would cause delay.

Seems to me this is plenty of room on the Nellis bombing range and from the distance, experimental weapons wouldn't look particularly different from established weapons. It would actually make more sense just to bomb an established range since that would be hiding in plain sight. Should any observer catch a bomb going off at Groom, it would be big news. Plumes can easily be observed from route 375 as evidenced by crashes on the range have been detected from the Tikaboo valley.

UXO's are only an issue on the ranges the weapons are actually used. Usually the weapons detonate (If they are designed to). Sometimes they just don't. The reasons a munition wouldn't operate as intended can vary from design defects to how they were assembled by the ammo troops that assembled them. But this is more applicable with things like conventional bombs where components have to be assembled, inspected, and transported to holding pads and/or waiting aircraft. Just because alot can happen in that chain. But not all munitions require this kind of assembly process either.

As far as what types of munitions are being tested at Area51/Groom Lake, I have an idea but I'm not completely sure what their entire program encompasses. The important thing to remember though is that no base is really a UXO threat. The UXO threat comes at the ranges after the weapons don't operate as designed. The weapons are only intentionally implemented at ranges anwyay which are usually areas of land entirely separate from the main facility. If you look on Google Earth, you will see areas very close to Area51 that are probably being used as weapons ranges.

Military bomb/weapons ranges are usually in the vicinity of the parent base but far enough away that no threat exists to incomming/outgoing aircraft. Most weapons ranges are pre-planned and designed specifically to avoid these kinds of threats from detonations and shrapnel/fragmentation.

There are always safety concerns with flying military aircraft whether live munitions are involved or not. Especially since a simple bird can take down a multi-million dollar airplane. But most weapons systems are actually extremely safe whether they're sitting on a trailer or loaded on an airplane. When a plane goes down, all bets are off. UXO's are always a threat and EOD (Explosive Ordinance Disposal) personnel would have no way of knowing what is at threat of going off and what isn't. SO if a plane has crashed with live munitions on-board, EOD is going to consider everything a UXO just to be on the safe side and then act accordingly.

Sofar as experimental weapons sitting on a range. Most of the time they're probably gonna be in pieces. If they aren't, they're going to be because EOD would take care of it. The Air Force has specific "career fields", some of which are specifically for the purpose of working on ranges, cleaning up what they can, setting up simulated targets for pilot training, etc.. Most of the time these people work under the command of a Civil Engineer (CE) Squadron.

Testing of weapons systems does not just occur at one base or another. Just like black ops don't just occur at one base or another. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that the wide majority of Air Force facilities have black budget programs in one form or another. They even have some going on up here in Alaska (but I'm not gonna talk about that either).

But everyone knows that some sites scattered across the U.S. are specifically built to be "Black Sites" that are usually hidden from the public and used to conduct experimental/classified operations and testing. An underground base at Dulce would definately be a perfect way to hide out of plain site. I mean, even Area51 is out in the open. If they're using a hidden base underground it's not only because they intend to keep the base, itself, hidden but also it's true purpose. And that is what's scary. Especially given what the "whistelblowers" have said combined with the pretty frightening rumors about the place.

Everyone knows what Area51 is being used for (at least most of it). Not everyone knows what they might be doing in an underground facility where noone's watching. And keep in mind, these are black budget dollars. So even if the base is somehow discovered, we're never gonna necessarily know what really goes on down there. Area51 is, again, prime example here. Those servicemen died from toxic burnoff of stealth byproducts (only because the military didn't want to truck it off and gain attention to the base) at Area51. And even then, the gov. stuck to its story that it didn't exist (do a google search for "presidential determination 95-45").

And let's keep in mind that someone's mutilating these cattle all across the U.S. and farmers are losing alot of money because of it. Yet there is never any serious government inquiry into this matter and why is that? Probably because they know something we don't know. If the Gov. wanted to conduct biological/genetic testing using the bodyparts of cattle, they wouldn't need to risk detection by mutilating cattle on private property all across the U.S... They could do that all themselves behind closed doors using government-owned land, facilities, and cattle. It's really mind-boggling! None of it adds up but it surely hints at what's really going on, doesn't it?

And the rumors about the facility in Dulce, NM would absolutely explain what we're seeing. As if aliens mutilating cattle on earth wasn't wierd enough. Now we have a potential underground facility where humans and aliens might even co-mingle to conduct various experiments involving cattle bodyparts and whatever else we don't know about (unwilling human subjects?!). I mean this is pretty shocking stuff, if real. But it's no wonder they'd want it kept hidden.

-ChriS

[edit on 21-9-2009 by BlasteR]

reply to post by BlasteR

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Exploding stuff underground sounds like a great way to get your underground base to cave in. I just don't buy it. Of course, I don't buy any of the Dulce stories.

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by BlasteR

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Exploding stuff underground sounds like a great way to get your underground base to cave in. I just don't buy it. Of course, I don't buy any of the Dulce stories.

Explosives have been used in subterranean excavation for generations.

You don't have to just have one giant looneytunes-esque boom, you can be slightly more scientific with yield and placement, in fact it's a requirement if you don't want it to collapse around you..

reply to post by jlc767

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So then according to "Thomas Castello" (assuming his story is legitimate) there are multiple areas around Dulce that could hangar UFO craft, similar to the S4 installation vis-à-vis Area 51? Interesting.

Yes, reportedly there is a vast interconnected network throughout the United States and likely the world (again, reportedly). These bases, with some being above ground, below, or both- are reportedly connected to each other via a VHST or Very High Speed Transit system, which is reportedly a mag-lev(using much more advanced magnetic technology than is known in public) propelled train inside of a vacuum (which is used to eliminate friction). The train is said to be able to achieve a maximum speed of around Mach 20, or a little over 14,000 mph. Again, there is no concrete evidence of this but the circumstancial evidence is interesting. Here is a reported map of the system in the US:






A more detailed map of the southwestern US:



I think I have seen the other half somewhere (you can just Google DUMBS and VHST for text locations), I do not have the time to look right now so if you wanna look (or anyone) feel free (lol, I need to start saving certain things )

Related Link: America's 14,000 MPH Secret Transit System

Again this is all via witness testimony and other circumstancial evidence, but I feel there is something very worthy to look into here.

[edit on 9/21/2009 by jkrog08]

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by BlasteR

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Exploding stuff underground sounds like a great way to get your underground base to cave in. I just don't buy it. Of course, I don't buy any of the Dulce stories.

i guess you don't watch any of the programs on the discovery channel or have browsed www.howstuffworks.com, dynamite has been used for generations below ground in mining, if you place the charge right, in the right amounts you can do this very safely,

Wee Mad Mental

This vidoe shows a underground mine blasting 1800 tonne of soft rock
www.youtube.com...
This link is for the Rand Papers -By: Robert M. Salter-The Very High Speed Transit System -www.rand.org...
Also found United States Patent 4148260 for High Speed Transit System
www.freepatentsonline.com...
[edit on 21-9-2009 by toddtenexpa]

[edit on 21-9-2009 by toddtenexpa]

[edit on 21-9-2009 by toddtenexpa]

Originally posted by Stoo

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by BlasteR

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Exploding stuff underground sounds like a great way to get your underground base to cave in. I just don't buy it. Of course, I don't buy any of the Dulce stories.

Explosives have been used in subterranean excavation for generations.

You don't have to just have one giant looneytunes-esque boom, you can be slightly more scientific with yield and placement, in fact it's a requirement if you don't want it to collapse around you..

Well, technically, Other than tunnel-boring machines and manually tearing into solid rock with a bulldozer, explosives would be the only consistently effective way to construct a facility like this anyway. That's no secret. This is one reason the OP's info about the supposed seismic activity is so interesting.

But what some people are apparently saying in this thread is they believe it may really be an underground facility but not for what we think. SO some people are positing that it may be some kind of facility for testing experimental munitions underground. I think people are trying to link together the unexplained seismic data and a hypothetical, immense, underground government-operated facility by saying this to come up with some alternative explanation other than nightmarish bioligical/genetic research. But it doesn't make any sense, as I previously stated.

The effects of an explosive shockwave/shock front within a cavernous underground cavity like that would cause the place to eventually cave in completely. There wouldn't be anywhere for the pressure to escape fast enough to prevent the shockwave from being amplified by the walls of the place (Even if it is somehow ventilated). And even if it were ventilated, the pressure trying to escape from those key points in the infrastructure would probably destroy any ventilation system you could build in such a place. You would have to somehow contain the blast in either water or a separate interior room/structure which contradicts the reasons for testing a weapon's effect/explosion for its intended purpose and application.

If the weapons being tested are things like missiles, bombs, and artillery shells they're not even gonna be able to test the weapons as they're intended to be implemented in the first place (which, again, completely contradicts the purpose of testing these kinds of weapons in the first place).

Facilities and proving grounds already exist to test the next generation of smart weapons. Things like the Palladin Auto-reloading howitzer, UAV's that double as cruise missiles, GPS-guided artiller shells and new MLRS missile technology. They're already doing all this out in the open desert. There would be no clear justification for a multi million/billion dollar government project to construct such an immense underground facility for the purposes of weapons testing. And when you're dealing with government/federal dollars, nothing is ever done without a clearly defined and justifiable need.

-ChriS

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