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A million march to US Capitol to protest against 'Obama the socialist'

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posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by jfj123
 


Everyone in America has access to health care.


Not true.
Many Americans do NOT have access to health care which includes diagnostic testing and medications.




posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by melatonin
 


I see. Anyone right of H. Chavez is right-wing.


lol, I suppose from the perspective of someone like Chavez, that would be the case. Similarly, from the perspective of extreme right-wing populists, Obama would be a communist/socialist.

But from a european perspective, generally centre-right. All a bit relative really. But given that europe is the home of most political ideology, I think we probably have the fairest perspective. He's no Aneurin Bevan - for one, he doesn't have the nads.



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


That's not true. There are free clinics that provide health care. It just takes a little initiative.



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by open_eyeballs
Hummm...so can you at least recognize the fact that Fox news and its pundits are bias? For calling tehmselves "Fair and Balanced"..surely your objectivity can see there agenda for what it is...

Just as msnbc and their pundits are easily recognizeable for there agenda and thir partisanship..


Emphatic Yes.

Emphatic Yes.

Emphatic Yes..

I despise media bias, pundits, and limiting oneself to one media source type when it comes to news. It's wrong to listen to Fox news just because it's conservative but it's also wrong not to listen to it just because it's conservative. The same is true for CNN or NBC and all. It's wrong to listen to them just because they're liberal but it's also wrong not to listen to them just because they're liberal.

The best way to go is to listen to all of them then reach a conclusion because they are all biased in their own way. Listen to both extremes to get to the middle where the truth usually is.

I don't support the protesters because Fox endorses them. I support the protesters because I believe in their issues.

It's amazing to me how people can't grasp the fact some people really don't depend on their party affiliation to decide their own thinking? As I've also admitted to on here, I am against the war but am for universal health care (but not Obamacare which essentially is mandated insurance). Not exactly conservative-based beliefs but I would rather believe in what I do than what my party tells me I should.

Fox news can be good in some respects in that it covers news the liberal media blacks out or how it can balance out the liberal media but it's not the end and be all. Also, I can't stand Beck and as I understand it, he was one of the most vocal pundits in favor of the tea parties.

It's not because of him or Fox that I support the protests.



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by jfj123
 


That's not true. There are free clinics that provide health care. It just takes a little initiative.


Oh so we're all fine then right? Yes there are SOME free clinics that help a very small minority of the uninsured but most cannot get access to proper health care. As a matter of fact, even those with insurance have a hard time getting access to health care. Here are a couple of examples:
1. I needed a procedure done that my Blue Cross Blue Shield only partially covered. My cost was $1000.00. They wouldn't do the procedure until I paid the $1000.00 in advance. They were looking for cancer by the way.

2. My aunt needed expensive medication to help prevent another stroke but her health insurance would only cover it as a discount so she couldn't afford it. By the way, she DIED of a stroke. She contacted everyone she could to try and get the meds but nobody would help.

I can give you a bunch of other examples if you like?????

Is this the health care you think is OK for your fellow Americans?

This is why the MAJORITY of Americans want a second option for health care.

You need a dose of reality my friend because your fantasy world doesn't work for the rest of us.



[edit on 14-9-2009 by jfj123]



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


So can you please tell me why it is you do support the protest ?

i like to keep it short and get to the point regardless of the media

seems like a solid and fair question to ask.



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 09:11 PM
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posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by symmetricAvenger
 


A few reasons.

For one, and the most important, even if I didn't agree with their issues it's still their constitutional right to protest, petition the government, and express their freedom of speech. That should be the end of it right there.

However, I support and agree with the protest for the following reasons:

1). Insane government spending (one of the main issues in the protest) that has got to stop. We're so far in the hole and are leaving a massive debt for generations to come. We cannot cover our own budget.
2). Although I agree with universal health care, the current proposal is not universal health care. It's universal insurance. Not the same thing so I agree with the protesters opposing the current bill.
3). Tax increases. The resolution to our problems is not to dig in deeper into the taxpayer's pockets. The solution is to cut the ridiculous spending which brings us back to #1.
4). An ever encroaching government that is getting bigger and bigger and more out of control. A main theme of the protest was calling for a smaller government instead of increased federal power with no end in sight.



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD

I don't support the protesters because Fox endorses them. I support the protesters because I believe in their issues.

So you believe in supporting protests that advocate the wasteful dumping of millions of dollars worth of tea to reinforce the idea of fiscal conservatism?

Thats IRONIC!


Originally posted by AshleyD
I am against the war but am for universal health care (but not Obamacare which essentially is mandated insurance)

You believe in universal health care and not mandated insurance. How exactly are the two mutually exclusive ?
Universal health care implies everybody has access to health care and those who cant afford health care are left to the state to provide them with health care. That is mandated care like -Medicare .

Is there any system where mandated insurance can be replaced to achieve universal health care?


Originally posted by AshleyD
Fox news can be good in some respects in that it covers news the liberal media blacks out or how it can balance out the liberal media

This statement makes no sense.
Fox news is good because it is just as biased as the "liberal media" and its bias is what makes it good because it "balances" out the bias on the other side ? Isnt that a fallacious argument because it requires all news outlets to balance their bias vis-a-vis their competitors bias and basically is an argument for more biased right wing news sources!?

In effect you are saying that two biased sources are better than one ? But this provides ZERO reliable news as both sources are biased and hence useless. Shouldnt the aim be to have unbiased news sources compared to the number of biased ones irrespective of their leanings?



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


You should petition your state representatives for better city and regional clinics. Why can't people get access? Too drunk or high? There's Medicare and Medicaid- for the old and the poor. Everyone with a real job should have insurance. College kids are covered under their parents' plan. Even WalMart offers most of their employees health insurance. Saving for a rainy day also works, or showing some initiative and finding a charitable organization or county/city program to help.



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


Just be glad you weren't forced into bankruptcy. Is it something like 60% of them are due to medical bills? And that 80% of those have insurance.

Your system is crazy. Like always, I had the pleasure of picking up my prescription at no cost yesterday. I love the NHS, and I'm more than happy to pay for the system via my national insurance and taxes.

Rock n roll.


[edit on 14-9-2009 by melatonin]



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by jfj123
 


You should petition your state representatives for better city and regional clinics.

That would be nice but simply not practical. There is no state that can afford to take care of the uninsured. That's why we're looking at universal health care.


Why can't people get access?

There is not access. Once again, this is why obama is trying to get universal health care.


Too drunk or high?

What a stupid comment.


There's Medicare and Medicaid- for the old and the poor.

But of course you would want to get rid of this too, right? And getting medicaid if very difficult.


Everyone with a real job should have insurance.

Haven't you heard even high paying jobs are seriously cutting back health insurance for their employees?


College kids are covered under their parents' plan.

Not necessarily. You're also assuming the parents can afford health insurance at all.


Even WalMart offers most of their employees health insurance.

They offer it yes but they only pay for a portion of it. Same with Target an Kmart.


Saving for a rainy day also works,

Wow you're very sheltered.


or showing some initiative and finding a charitable organization or county/city program to help.


I'll tell you what. Why don't you research it and get back to me. You seem to think this is so easy or even plausable so tell me how it works out for you.



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by melatonin
 


to be completely honest...im on the fence with healthcare...as i see it now...and being one of those who dont have healthcare i have gotten the treatment i needed everytime I have entered a medical facility...

bioth children of mine were handled effectively and very well through medicade...

that being said..i dont have cancer and am quite healthy...I could only imagine what it would be like if I had some terminal disease...for these people...wheres the relief? a $5,000 deductible?

what if a cancer patient that died could have invented a cure for cancer? one would think these kinds of investments in human life would be well worth it...but because some politician decides its not worth it..the cure never gets found...? something about that seems off..not to mention the great healthcare politicians get (from what i have heard) and it has worked in other countries from what i understand..(ive seen the michael moore movies)

hopefully my point comes across clear

but i consider myself a fiscal conservative in the sense of government spending, but definitely more a liberal on social issues...a libertarian if you will..

and ill tell you what...you have to hand it to that guy in teh video...hes got some cahones..haha...if it had been me...more than likely the first person that stuck his finger in my face would have gotten his well deserved five knuckles back...of course thats me..and im sure i would have ended up in the hospital...but hats off to the guy for doing it...



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


There are free clinics all over Northern Virginia and DC. I guess we're the exception.

I got a free tetanus shot last week, and I have health insurance. Seemed pretty accessible to me.

Actually, my plan calls for increasing the membership roles of Medicare/aid, as well as covering people with catastrophic illnesses under Medicare. All the money Obama claims he can get from cutting waste will pay for it.

No, there is a shortage of skilled workers in my area. Companies like Raytheon, Boeing, Exxon-Mobile, Oracle, etc. offer great packages.

All the schools I have been to have have had free clinics, or offered health insurance coverage for practically nothing.

Not saving money is irresponsible.

I actually have. A friend of mine volunteers at a soup line through her church, and I help her help people from there fill out the correct paperwork to get treatment from the city or county.



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


well then, nothing more needs to be said except bravo, and i applaud your individuality..

keep up the good work matey



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 





1). Insane government spending (one of the main issues in the protest) that has got to stop. We're so far in the hole and are leaving a massive debt for generations to come. We cannot cover our own budget.


Depends on how one looks at it correct? war? the FED the very reason for money as a tool? seems kinda hypercritical to me.





2). Although I agree with universal health care, the current proposal is not universal health care. It's universal insurance. Not the same thing so I agree with the protesters opposing the current bill.


you agree indeed but the system in the usa is based on greed ? you already have universal insurance? because that is how the system works?

trust me i live in the UK i get DIRECT TAX to pay for ME and every other person who needs it...




3). Tax increases. The resolution to our problems is not to dig in deeper into the taxpayer's pockets. The solution is to cut the ridiculous spending which brings us back to #1.


and this is the kicker really is it not? the perception that the money they print is YOURS

do you print the money? nope.. so tell me WHAT part of this MONEY is in fact yours?

they print it YOU use it.. it have no value other than you thinking it has..

let me continue





4). An ever encroaching government that is getting bigger and bigger and more out of control. A main theme of the protest was calling for a smaller government instead of increased federal power with no end in sight.



this part did indeed make me laugh.. smaller government?

please tell me what your understanding of government IS?

is it wild west "all alone im ok jack" or is it the fact you are to lazy to get off your own be hind and do anything ?

look at this

Government are the people you wish to make your life happen because..

1) You love shopping at wall mart
2) You are to lazy to do ANYTHING other than go to work get paid and watch tv

3) The people who run this planet LOVE the fact you whine and bitch about a party affiliation and why?

4) It keeps your mind some place els other than on the point

5) The point? well its very clear is it not hunny and has been for 2000 years or more

GOD

care to argue this case im sure i can point out many many reasons for the "so called party line"

it makes me sick to think humans can be led like sheep .. really

using words like this..

REPUBLICAN DEMOCRAT LIBERAL LABOUR SOICAIL DEMOCRAT CONSERVITE

WRIGHT WING LEFT WING

do you know what all them stupid words mean?

you fell for the biggest LIE know to mankind.

GOD/MONEY

take your pick little one both end up in the same place NOWHERE

[edit on 14-9-2009 by symmetricAvenger]



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by jfj123
 


There are free clinics all over Northern Virginia and DC. I guess we're the exception.

I got a free tetanus shot last week, and I have health insurance. Seemed pretty accessible to me.

Not how most of the country works. Consider yourself VERY lucky.


No, there is a shortage of skilled workers in my area. Companies like Raytheon, Boeing, Exxon-Mobile, Oracle, etc. offer great packages.

Again consider yourself lucky especially since Boeing is cutting back it's health care coverage for employees everywhere else.


All the schools I have been to have have had free clinics, or offered health insurance coverage for practically nothing.

Again consider yourself lucky. It's not like that in the rest of the country.


Not saving money is irresponsible.

Not having money to save is unfortunate but common. We're in a recession and MILLIONS have lost their jobs and have run their savings dry. When they lost their jobs, they lost their health care after 90 days assuming they could afford paying for the COBRA plan for those 90 days.



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by melatonin
 


well said


not much to add really LONG LIVE THE NHS

false flag post LOL !!



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 10:14 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


For me you kinda hit the nail on the head..

We save! to pay for our own health

wtf??

UK / most of the world / TAX people

why? because a healthy work force is a productive one!!

USA = greed

simple




posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


Call upon your state representatives to enact changes.

My parents always taught me to save 10% of my pay from the day I began working. Seems like it was good advice.

I know people have lost jobs, but sometimes it is necessary to relocate. It seems people in places like Michigan and Ohio are sitting around waiting for jobs that are never coming back.



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