The Great Awakening

Redrafting now taking suggestions into account. The new version should be tighter. I'll answer the questions later but for now this is important.

Here's a conversation topic:

1. How would you structure the ideal economy? Local, City, National and International thinking is all interesting.

2. How would you make a smooth transition from the current economy to the ideal economy?

3. What economic thinkers are in the 'sane school' of economics? I could name Ron Paul, but who else?

4. How would you explain Austrian school economics in simple terms?

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Make the answers as long as you like. I have invited BadMedia to come and write on the subject.

reply to post by HiAliens


In the end, all monetary system is going to be dependent on the people themselves to make sure it stays honest. If left unchecked, most any monetary/economic system will go bad.

The most ideal form of currency and economic system is free markets, and something along the lines of colonial scripts.

Colonial scripts, or what the currency should be, is issued in direct proportion to the amount of trade being done. So that their is neither inflation or deflation. Things should hold their value consistently with the currency, outside natural supply and demand changes. The amount of trade is what should determine the amount of money that exists.

Any newly created money is #1 not a loan. It gets it's value only from the existing currency, it is the peoples money. No debt, no interest. This money is either A. Given out to the people individually somehow. or B. Used for government things, like buildings and such.

Keep in mind, we are talking federal only here. What this means is that federal spending will have to be reduced significantly.

This is not without problem however. And that problem you can find in the words "Continental Dollar", and is why in the constitution they tied the value of money to silver and gold. Because even though we have ridden ourself of the debt and interest, there is nothing to stop politicians from creating more money for wars and things if they want.

Which is exactly what happened with the Continental Dollar. So they tried the gold and silver thing as a solution to that. If they had to keep things in actual material value, then they could not inflate at will.

But then enter in fractional banking. Which is what lead us to the fiat money we have now. Banks(read the link in my sig) are allowed to loan out/create wealth like 9 times what they really have. Well they still have to back that money in actual value - gold. That is the gold standard. What happened is that because of this, it was impossible for them to pay back all the money to money - it was all loaned out. They call in loans, and bankruptcy after bankruptcy. IE: Bank runs.

But rather than fix the problem of fractional banking and the fraud of it - they said no, lets create a reserve bank and they will back all the debts of the bank. FDIC. But they keep the debt going, and so they keep the money funnel chugging.

So, the gold standard would help in some ways, but it is not the ultimate answer. Colonial scripts type system, or a fiat currency owned by the people debt free is the most honest system - and what the fed actually claims to do(but doesn't - no excuse for the loans and interest).

Also, regulations. Regulations are bad many times. They are usually written by the very people who claim to be against them. What you do is add regulations, and then you kill your competition with it. Then you make up for any losses yourself by having a virtual monopoly on the industry. As well, many times they add these regulations at first, and then they put in "safetys" on it. Then after the damage is done, they go and remove part of the regulations and reap the benefits. Many other things that are done with them.

Yet, you can't have everything unregulated, and so there is some valid things etc. But these are mostly things that should be handled on a state/local level.

So in the end, the most important thing is a public who understands these things. Then they can start working towards better things, and with technology where it is - who knows what is possible. The colonial scripts way is best - but is it the best for us right now? Probably not with the way the people let politicians get away with things. The gold standard is best then - unless you can get it tied to the amount of trade directly.

But, the ideal system is to get rid of the loan and interest currency, in exchange for something that is honest. Get rid of fractional banking, it is fraud and legalized counterfeit. Are you allowed to loan out $900 on every $100 you have? That would be illegal right? So why are some people allowed to do that?

Then you need a limited government. One where the listed rights are not things the government can do, but is a list of things they are supposed to promote and provide. Is it their job and function to protect those rights - not take them away. Most power is given to the individual, and we call that choice and freedom. The states each have their constitution, they have a list of things they do. Then it goes down to the next level and so forth. This is power to the people based on the % of the vote you make up on the local level, how often you vote, vs the % of the vote you make up in the national election and how often you vote - you can even be a councilman for your town. This was the draw of "small town living" - having a bigger say in how the local community is handled. If you didn't like it - no big deal, there are plenty of other communities out there.

Transition is a great question and one people don't generally talk about. That is one of the things I really like about Ron Paul - he understood that. You can just go and cut off services to people who have become dependent on them. It's cruel, it's wrong and it shouldn't happen. However, if we restore an honest monetary system and stop robbing the poor with the inflation tax, then we can start to get people where they don't need it.

I don't really know anyone else who talks about it. Peter Schiff I guess - but I do not know exactly what he thinks is best etc, just that he is someone who does at least know and acknowledge things. I just kind of figured a good bit of it out on my own, and then you know various movies and talking to people etc. What got me looking into it more was just the loan part, I kind of wondered - if the US is the richest country in the world, then who is so rich that we owe so many trillions of dollars to.

Basically I find the constitution is the best system - so long as it's followed properly. It's not a document of limited rights as people see and use it today - it's a document of limited government. I can go into more detail on how it is meant to be used, and why it is so great when used properly. Not sure if you wanted that because it's not economic, but it kind of is as it has to do with how much resources is going to what etc.

OP,

Like at least one other has expressed in this thread, i finally registered with ATS in order to respond.

The ideas you present are good ones and lie close to the mark.

I encourage you to consider that we each have the passion to go out and discover solutions that can inspire us to use our imaginations to create the decentralized solutions that we and our neighbors need. We don't need to have everything nicely packaged in the form of a film before these ideas can spread. In fact, nice packaging and seeming completeness can be counterproductive to the activation of the will.

I offer the idea that Slaves Anonymous can be used as a social mechanism that can facilitate the interactions and explorations among persons who are ready to begin acting with their neighbors. The most important "technology" that we need is one that can help us work together in a synergistic way. If we can connect with each other and cooperate, the solutions to our shared problems will be enjoyable to solve together.

As a new subscriber, i am unable to start a thread with Slaves Anonymous as the topic. If someone else creates one, i'd be happy to provide information and answer questions there.

Yea, you're seeing it now with the G@) summit mtgs. I don't really understand their cause, but, it's their right.

Yea, you're seeing it now with the G@) summit mtgs. I don't really understand their cause, but, it's their right.

Yea, you're seeing it now with the G@) summit mtgs. I don't really understand their cause, but, it's their right.

OK, here are my answers to your comments. Your positive responses really added a boost to the project.

Alaskan man,
Glad it energised you. Alaska could boost their economy massively with some of this tech...

SkyFloating,
Thanks... this movie is supposed to be a realistic middle ground between 'liberals' and 'conservatives'. See your signature. I have been rigorous in order to avoid the obvious idealist accusation. Yes, I will emphasise that ideas/consciosuness are primary.

ExPostFact,
I agree with yr points. We have given away all our time and labour for nothing.

LadySharrowAndHerBarn,
I would like to go looking for an arts grant but I think it'd be a whole lot of bother.... If they threw money at me I would take it but if not I'll just do it myself. I can get a rough cut done for pennies. Yes, Ecuador have been pulling away from the cartel...as have the whole of South America. Yes, I think we should teach kids positive environmental stuff. I like Steiner from what I've read. I have his book "Angels".

Protoplasmic Travaller,
Thanks for yr positive response. I agree, we need to get rid of the cartel first, but there are a lot of films already dedicated to that. I thought I'd look forward a couple of years cos people will need guidance when it all comes down. And yes, there is a direct link to Rome if you look at the history.

observe50,
A lot of people have mentioned scenes from Antz and Bugs life, I need to see them. re: "What do I know." Your opinion is as valid as anyone elses. Money is not the root of all evil, debt is.

MoonMine,
What are you mining, Helium 3? I like some of the points in Zeitgeist, and the fact that it went worldwide is an inspiration. I would happily talk to the guy. This film is just another angle to the dialogue on the future. I disagree with some of what he says and think he over-intellectualises certain simple issues. Money is not a problem if it is a locally issued currency, see Ithaca dollars.

MissSmartyPants,
You know, one day I will try and condense it to one page, thanks for the challenge.

Phlynx,
The whole thing will probably be 2 hours, there's no way I can make it any shorter, but yes, a 'lite' version that's only 30 minutes long is a good idea, making a symbol is a good idea too, thanks. It's not anarchy but it's grassroots and organic, like all economies should be. It *will* go viral.

Bettermakings,
Get in touch via u2u if you have any ideas. The idea is that the film gives people the tools to do things themselves. You could start things in your local area today. And yes, we should visualise a positive future....

theonlyrusty,
thanks, these positive comments mean a lot to me. Yes, the ATS post alone took about 6 hours to prepare... but it was worth it cos it really started the ball rolling.

blujay,
thanks, yes... it's up to all of us to spread it around. I've seen a lot of your posts and I like them. Peace.

goldspirit,
yes, it's about education,,, that's the way to stop youth violence. Look at how Medellin, Colombia turned themselves around after Escobar died. I have been neutral regarding religion cos that's the way forward.

pai mei,
I might look at that book if I have time. We're not doomed. Also, my film is about local food production so it makes that vid you posted irrelevant. Best to be positive, but it's your choice. Reality will diverge and we'll all get the world we need.

Multichild,
Yes, its about switching off the TV and ignoring the crap.... Yes, it's about doing it slowly village by village. I'm sure you'll be successful in your local community. I think there's a lot of cool stuff going on in Wales. Someone told me the Gower peninsula was great. Ever been?

WeareAWAKe,
we talked via u2u.

eventHorizon,
thanks... I'm glad I got so many flags.

CosmicGreenery,
Yes, I've heard a lot about advanced farming methods. Psychotronic Farming is interesting, I think a guy called Peter Kelly pioneered it. There's plenty of other stuff that seems to work. If you know any links please post them.

ZanderMander,
Good to see it had such an effect on you. Again, you will probably end up a leader in your community. Namste.

Unity99,
Yup, it's all about unity, the tech is here... And think how quick it would be if a few governments jumped on board.

jpmail,
It will take time to hit the mainstream but it will eventually. It's all about being active in your local area. It's up to you. There's nothing hippyish about it, those people you talked to are idiots. The fact is this stuff is super cheap and that's what'll end up changing people's minds. No webpage as yet. TPTB might not like it, I don't know. Some of them will be very supportive though cos even they are waking up. Governments are not monolithic. The market and competition will ensure prices stay low, and I think humanity should spend less money on consumer crap and more on basic stuff.

rainfall,
thanks! Peace and Love back at you.

* * *

I will reply to more posts another time. G'Night.

starred and flagged

A thought inducing question to ask to help alleviate greed:

"There is you and all that is you, and then there are all things that are not you:

Which is most important?"

reply to post by HiAliens


Belive it or not.... Im actually a composer, and the film you are making sounds right up my alley (for obvious reasons).

Do you have anyone scoring your film? If not, Id like to offer my services at no charge.

Let me know if you want to hear my portfolio... it is posted on my site.

Amazing read and information!

Why not apply this to a bigger and bolder project? Something to unite the whole world into one entity, one nation, one people. Put an end to all these petty wars, borders and land rights. No one actually *owns* the Earth nor should anyone claim sovereign ownership over any of the available land on it.

You should look up arcologies, it's a great alternative to current cities, fitting more people in less land. I think I've read something like one million people could be fitted in only two square miles of land. With the United States totaling around three-hundred million people, our country would only need three-hundred of these cities taking up a total land area of six-hundred square miles. That would leave the rest for future development *when needed* and not development out of greed.

I personally think we need some new governmental system thought up that places all of humanity under a label of one people rather than various nations and races. If we can manage that, it might possibly end most racism and arguments over who's nation has a bigger missile. We have the means, we just need someone like you to write it up the way you did with this other stuff ... So, get cracking I want to see something done before I die!

best thread ever!

It may be old but who cares, it deserves to be bumped.

I personally own just under 900sq block with a house on it...I have a veggie garden, will have chooks soon, and own a water tank.
If push comes to shove I could get a goat or 2 for milk...

I haven't spent a cent on pesticide, compost, etc for the garden, food scraps and grass clipping etc make compost rather than refuse...the viggies produce food and seed or afterwords flower then seed, seed makes new crops. that makes more food that can then make scraps that make compost...
Grow the right plants next to each other and use the natural pest repents of the plants and herbs.

rain is free and fills my water tank that waters the garden and flushes the toilets...

Why people just throw there toys out of the pram and complain about everything and do nothing is beyond me. Action is the only way things change...
start acting in a proactive way and things- and people follow.


Again top thread and sorry for my rant

reply to post by 297GT


Excellent post mate,

I haven't put any of these ideas into practice yet as I've been too busy studying them..... So well done for getting self-sufficient.........

Your rant is fine, it's our laziness that has got us into this mess.

Can I ask, how many people do you think you can feed from your garden alone?

[edit on 110f20095amFri, 30 Oct 2009 04:47:59 -050059 by HiAliens]

This was a trial run to begin with, great idea to spend time with the kids too....
Anyways I have expanded from these pics,
from this size garden
I harvested 12 good size broccoli and lots of slightly smaller ones, tomatoes just keep growing and once they take off there is another ripe one or 2 every other day, I had 6 lettuces and if you just pick the outer leaves rather than cut the whole plant you will have too much from only 6 plants...be sure to get a mix of these as well just to add variety.
I put in 6 snow pea seedlings and gather from 1st harvest 6bags-consider that I never included huge amounts in cooking or salads so that lasted a while, I had baby spinach and again just pluck what you need and you will have too much even with only 4+ plants, zucchini is amazing and just keeps growing, there is always some either ready or growing, I didnt have much luck with carrots although I had heaps of seedlings I grew in...I'll try a new location next time.
Beetroot went ok, cauliflower was a flop, wrong season to try I since discovered, sweet corn I also found out- you need to grow more than 6 plants to get a good crop...just due to pollination of plants the more the better they produce so to speak.

On top of that in that garden size I also had garlic grown from cloves that I forgot were in pantry, rosemary, coriander, parsley (2types) basil, tyme, marigold, mint, oregano.

Put it this way the experiment went better than expected coming from a guy that has never grow any food ever before, in a clay soil with no fertilizer or pesticide, and very little maintenance or weeding.
Most scraps go into a simple compost bin along with grass clippings etc and gets turned into soil when re-planting etc.

I also froze a lot as soon as I picked it so it would last rather than rot due to having to much in fridge at once

For a family of 3 we haven't bought any vegies apart from potatoes really, as we have a friend who also has a garden who grows pumpkin and that goes wild and always has fruit.
i still have to buy avocado and apples etc, but for a total cost of $50(seeds, seedlings & bricks and a few cheap tools) I am more than happy....

All those plants I have reproduced into new crops from seeds or propagating.


few pics
Before
iplayz.files.wordpress.com...

iplayz.files.wordpress.com...


after
iplayz.files.wordpress.com...



[edit on 30-10-2009 by 297GT]

[edit on 30-10-2009 by 297GT]

The best thread on ATS period. we need to make this a reality ya'll its time to evolve.

Originally posted by Alaskan Man
wow, that was a lot of reading,

cool post tho, makes me want to start my own vector farm, or take a wack at making one of those devices that takes moisture from the air to make clean pure water.
s&F

Anything that is cold in a warm humid environment well make
condensation, then just collect it.

Prolly a good idea to filter it just in case though, or maybe just
UV zap it with the SODIS method.

en.wikipedia.org...

Hi Aliens, I wish to draw your attention to the following website www.royalcanadianinstitute.org... or simply put RCI into Google, I agree most of these problems have been solved but remain to be implemented and executed.

Sunday, November 21, 1999


Fog and Fog Collection: Exploring This Hidden Water Resource


Robert S. Schemenauer, Ph.D., Emeritus Research Scientist, Environment Canada, Toronto


Fog plays an important role in numerous ecosystems. In many cases, the role of fog has not been recognized or quantified. Enormous volumes of water are contained in the fog present in coastal and mountainous regions. The water droplets in these fogs can be collected by vegetation, as in tropical or temperate montane cloud forests, or deposited onto grass-covered hills. In desert regions, free of vegetation, it is possible to capture fog droplets in large artificial fog collectors. This provides an inexpensive, low-technology, sustainable source of water, and the technique is presently being used in many parts of the world for domestic, agricultural and forestry uses. The lecture will review the physics and chemistry of fog, the capture and use of fog water by vegetation, international fog collection projects, and the use of fog as a water supply for the next century.



Sunday, February 5, 2006


Groundwater Contamination and Remediation: Myths and Realities

Elizabeth A. Edwards, Ph.D., P.Eng., Department of Chemical Engineering and Applied Chemistry, U of T

[email protected]


Groundwater contamination is a serious threat to global health and prosperity. Chlorinated solvents are among the most common groundwater contaminants. Owing to their toxicity, even small spills usually render groundwater unsuitable for use, and cleanup is typically a costly and long-term undertaking. Bioremediation can be low cost and effective, but must be deployed scientifically. Recently, a fascinating group of subsurface microorganisms, called Dehalococcoides, has been discovered that can dechlorinate the common solvents tetra-chloroethene and trichloroethene to the benign product ethene. Remarkably, these organisms obtain energy for growth from dechlorination. The intriguing microbial physiology of Dehalococcoides will be described, with emphasis on how this physiology is critical for the success of chlorinated solvent bioremediation.

Sunday, March 20, 1994


Ideas, Wealth Creation and the Health and Well-being of Societies


J. Fraser Mustard, O.C., O. Ont., M.D., Ph.D., F.R.S.C., President, The Canadian Institute for Advanced Research


The quality of the social environment in which humans live and work has a profound effect on their health and well-being. Regions or nations that fail to sustain their prosperity usually end up with deterioration in both the social and physical environments and negative effects on the health and well-being of members of that society. Today the global economy is moving to wealth creation which is based on ideas. Canada and most of its regions have had trouble making this adjustment and have borrowed substantially in both the private and public sectors. This debt has to be confronted. There are two choices: either reduce expenditure in the non primary wealth-creating sectors (e.g. health care) or become a society capable of creating wealth from ideas in the primary wealth-creating sector.

Don't really post on ATS much at the moment, but I just wanted to say that this is a fantastic thread with brilliant ideas.

I was thinking maybe you could title the video version 1 or something, so that if better ideas come up after it has been released then you could put them in the new version, just an idea, don't know if it would work.

Where are you with the documentary at the moment?

Again, Fantastic Thread!

Your point is what exactly???

I still think this is going to have to be done in a kind of non-profit way where we get a team spirit and people helping to donate materials and time to building the solar and wind devices and contributing seed kits, along with making it widely available so that they can do everyhting possible themselves.

I see a necessity for this in North America, and the West as well, and would really like it reduced down to even further as a micro version. For example, if people chose to walk away from this BS and formed gypsy caravans, buses, vans, cube vans, cars and tents, trailers, how would they organize and how would they rotate their squatting? Lol, and still grow things.

Because I would really support that kind of visible presence of non-compliant, non-participation with the system.

So HiAliens, how is the project going?

Any news about it?