It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Progressives must defeat the Lizards

page: 1
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 11:45 PM
link   
I have been in some discussions lately with some people who claim to be anti-socialism and anti-progressive.

Their stance was that those who "love freedom" will never be a burden on anyone, and that if they have to take care of anyone, young, old, infirm, it is because of these peoples laziness.

The more I discussed with these people, the more I saw they mistook self-reliance for narcissism.

There is a myth that self reliance means never having to take care of anyone else. Self reliance is a code that even I live by, but it does not cause me to look on those who need help as lazy and unworthy of assistance!

I have realized that those who oppose Healthcare as a right, those who oppose being their brothers keepers are Lizards. They think only for themselves, and want to ensure a continual government of isolation in the face of the world.

They have the right to be lizards. But they masquerade as freedom fighters, patriots and humanists, when in fact they are the exact opposite of all of these things.

We are all humans, and the mammal in each of us compels us to care for each other, to adopt the orphan, to give meaning to the elderly, comfort to the sick, food to the hungry and a bed to the tired and weary.

The Romans felt it fine for a family to drop unwanted children at the trash dumps. This is the legacy of the Lizards.

We must defeat those who are lizards, who feel their superiority removes them from any obligation to their fellow man. The first steps have been taken. It is only a matter of time, but a great cataclysm will occur which brings all humanity together under one banner.

On that day, none will stand against unity. The lizards will have been defeated.




[edit on 12-9-2009 by HunkaHunka]




posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 12:56 AM
link   
As soon as I seen that HUNKA HUNKA posted this I had to see for myself what was going on.

HH, I myself am sitting in the basement of a wholly renovated house. My mother's. I feel absolutely devastated that I am not working. I have increased the value of the house 30-35k in value if we are talking 5-10 years ago. She paid for the materials, I gave the labor.

What do you want us to do? I myself an absolute Fiscal Conservative and Strict Constitutionalist.

Our liberties, our economy, our absolute conviction of the superiority of our way of life is turned upside down. Do you think we should give up on the freedoms that our father's have had? Do you think we should embrace the control that our government wants? You tell me. What liberty do we give up?
What freedom do we give up? What security is so valuable that the American people should accept bondage rather than freedom?

Yes, Yes I know, we are hardly free now.

But, I give you this option, If it was up to you-would you give up freedom for all of mankind, for the security that you so righteously think you deserve?



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 12:59 AM
link   
You are only looking at things in terms of helping people. I am against those government programs, but it has nothing to do with me not wanting to help people.

What you have done is basically posted the myth that if you are in favor of progressive things, then you are by default someone who doesn't care or want to help people. In my case, that couldn't be further from the truth.

First off, people not being able to afford healthcare and basic services etc is a symptom of a greater problem. Offering healthcare and other services like most things these days only tries to treat the symptoms, rather than addressing the problem.

The reason why people are in such need of these services and can't afford them is because of our economic system. It is a constant transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. This system robs people blind, decides who is rich and who isn't all based on how much they serve the machine.

Lets say there exists in the world $100. You own $10. You own 10% of the worlds wealth. For simplicity sake, lets say there exists 10 widgets in the world. Supply and demand state that each widget has a value of $10. So you can afford to buy 1 widget for yourself.

In comes the federal reserve and fractional banking practices. For simplicity sake again, lets say they add another $100 into circulation. You still have your $10, but now with $200 total, you only have 5% of the wealth, and you can't even afford a single widget - which is now valued at $20 each($200 / 10 widgets = $20 ea). Now, imagine that is food, or healthcare.

Even though your wallet was never touched, you just lost half your purchasing power. You can only buy half what you could before. You were just robbed, and because you still have $10, you are none the wiser.

This is called inflation, and it hurts the poor and people on little or fixed income the most. Meanwhile, the corporations get those loans, those government contracts and so forth. So they received the extra $100. They then take all that acquired wealth - which they got simply out of the air and spend it. In this manner, they decide who is rich and who is not.

Not only that, but that new money is "loaned" out with interest. Lets say a modest 5%. That interest money is never created. This means it is actually impossible to get out of debt. So again, they decide who makes it an who doesn't in this manner - someone is going to come up short, and it's the ones not getting all the newly created money.

Who got all that money from the bailouts? And when you apply fractional banking, multiple that # by 9. 1 trillion dollars? No, that was 9 trillian dollars.

It is because of this that the poor need these services to begin with. If you really care about the people, then this should be priority #1. Not only do the poor suffer, but it kills the middle class. This makes it harder to help those in need, while not only increasing those in need.

The only thing income tax pays for is interest on the debt. The debt is really a tally of how much the American people have been robbed if you multiply it by 9.

Also, "progressives" don't even care about doing it right. They use and abuse the general welfare clause to do these things. Saying it's for the "general welfare" of the people. It's a loophole, because the amendments are what defines promoting the general welfare, and the general welfare clause is the part of the constitution where they are given the power to uphold the amendments, as required by the 10th amendment.

What happens is, with this loophole they push through anything they can spin as being for the "general welfare". But it all ends up being special rights for special people. I will demonstrate how that clause is supposed to work.

Right now they could add an amendment. That amendment would state - all citizens shall be given health care. Because it is amendment, it would be a right and applied to all citizens equally(universal). And then the general welfare clause is what gives them the power to do that - without opening up the loophole that gives special rights.

I can even keep going. They want to make 1 program for the entire country. Bad idea. This means it will be 4-8 years before we can get change, and then we are still at the mercy of who is voted in. But if we move this issue down to a state issue, then suddenly we have 50 programs. We vote every 2 years for a new governor, and if 1 program does something bad, then only that 1 program suffers. Because we have 50 programs going at the same time, we are able to try many new things at the same time. When something works in 1 state, other states can pick up the practice and we are able to find the best methods/programs easier and quicker. When 1 state does something bad, then they have 49 other programs to look at for improvement.

This also allows us to move around the US to find locations that we like - without losing our basic rights as Americans. If I don't like how a state is doing something, I can move to another one that is.

We can even take it down to the community level, and then have 1000's of programs and so forth.

But it gets better. See, you vote more often the lower you put these issues as. And your 1 vote makes up a much smaller % of the overall vote. You can even become a councilman in your city. That was often the big draw to small towns. This is known as decentralization, and means power to the people. Because literally, the power is put into the peoples hand. Some guy in DC isn't deciding things for your town, your neighbor is an so forth.

It is the centralization you speak of that creates the elite class to begin with, where as decentralization gives control to the power.

Not to mention, if all the money wasn't going to DC, but to state and local governments, they wouldn't be going broke so much in trying to handle these things. The states are being choked financially to where they have no choice but to accept aid and such in many cases.

Meanwhile, the costs of the healthcare system itself will only go to further cause the inflation problem, hurting the poor even more. Our current economic times are a direct result of all the spending over the past 8 years. Eventually the interest payments get so big things go bankrupt, it's unavoidable without practically giving money away and going into hyperinflation.

So hey, your heart is in the right place, but you do not at all understand the reality and cause. Neither do most on the right either - it's not about left or right.

But it has nothing at all to do with me not caring, me wanting to not help people or anything like that. It has everything to do with getting to the real cause of the problem and fixing that, so that rather than having people dependent on them because they live in an economic system designed for them to fail and have the fruits of their labor robbed, and getting them the most control and choice in their lives.

I can keep going if you would like, there is plenty more.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 01:08 AM
link   
reply to post by HunkaHunka
 
very odd you should mention people under one banner.
do you know who "the people of the banner of the son" were?

anybody?



[edit on 13-9-2009 by randyvs]



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 01:40 AM
link   
Well at least you arent calling them racists in this post, is calling them lizards a promotion or demotion from racist?

I get to be one of those racist lizards I guess because I dont want the federal government involved in my life any more than is absolutely necessary. I dont want them in my bedroom, my gun safe, or any other personal things that are mine, and I most certainly dont want some FEDGOV suit determining my health care.

It is not the job of the government to be involved with to provide for my children or to take care of my parents in their old age that is my job that is the families job. Healthcare is not a right it is a responsibility yours and mine and no one elses, if you are to irresponsible to provide for yourself why should society do it for you. These racist lizards you rail on about give billions in charity each year by choice so this idea that the racists lizards are uncaring is a bunch of horse excrement. The difference is that the choice to give is exactly that a choice with no arm twisting and government interference. When you take from one individuals labor and give the fruits of that labor to someone else that is stealing and extortion plain and simple.

Of course over the last 40 years all the Great Society progressive programs that have destroyed the family unit. Children born in to welfare stay on welfare because it is nothing more than a vote sustaining plantation system that keeps the poor down, and the progressives in power. From 1933-1994 progressive have controlled the government despite a conservative president here and there.

Your progressives want to shunt the elderly off to some FEDGOV suit and determine when they should end their lives.

Progressives and orphans give me a break 1.5 million abortions each year shows their caring for the unborn and potential orphan.

The Romans felt it fine for a family to drop unwanted children at the trash dumps. Progressive feel it fine to suck them up in a vacumn cleaner and dump them in a medical waste bin.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 01:49 AM
link   
I would say the lizards already know they're defeated and are trying to do as much slash and burn as possible before permanently retreating.

One other thing about self-reliance is knowing that it is ok to ask for help and knowing when. If your ship is sinking, you don't turn a boat to safety away unless you are self-destructive.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 02:19 AM
link   

Originally posted by endisnighe
As soon as I seen that HUNKA HUNKA posted this I had to see for myself what was going on.

HH, I myself am sitting in the basement of a wholly renovated house. My mother's. I feel absolutely devastated that I am not working. I have increased the value of the house 30-35k in value if we are talking 5-10 years ago. She paid for the materials, I gave the labor.

What do you want us to do? I myself an absolute Fiscal Conservative and Strict Constitutionalist.

Our liberties, our economy, our absolute conviction of the superiority of our way of life is turned upside down. Do you think we should give up on the freedoms that our father's have had? Do you think we should embrace the control that our government wants? You tell me. What liberty do we give up?
What freedom do we give up? What security is so valuable that the American people should accept bondage rather than freedom?

Yes, Yes I know, we are hardly free now.

But, I give you this option, If it was up to you-would you give up freedom for all of mankind, for the security that you so righteously think you deserve?


My problem is that FREEDOM often goes hand in hand with giving MORE freedom to corporations. I often hear the same things Hunka point to, lazy people, leaches and freeloaders and government as the cause for all our ills.

HOWEVER, I genuinely feel the problems we are experiencing are based upon corporate
influence on our laws, check books and FREEDOM. I cannot even cash my F-ing pay check at the EXACT (branch) bank who issued it any more. How is that for freedom?


Our politicians are funded and bought by these entities that are often times MULTI NATIONAL in origin. At the same time the "lizard" people feel it is part of freedom to let these monsters of the modern world dictate everything, whats good for business is good for America... Could ANY normal INDIVIDUAL live a reasonable life if they abided by this cree?

Now I ask you reasonably, what specific freedoms has that government taken away from you in the last two years or five?

I will say my liberty is much more impacted by the rising bills that represent crappier
services with each bill.

So lets start a dialogue because I wanna know specifics -



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 03:02 AM
link   
Hey HunkaHunka, this is the best post I read from you, ever. You are so DAMN right. What we see every day right in front of our eyes is the most blatant hypocrisy of all historical times. These lizard people are desperately and litterally trying to bring down and destroy the whole world, and AT THE SAME TIME hypocritically pretend to be our "friends" and to be "saving" the world - and all just for the their personal super-greed and profit. They suppress the masses, destroy their lives, rob them - and then complain about the population not being happy and "enlightened". It is utterly disgusting.

And let me add another important piece of the dire truth. It's not the Jews who are "behind everything". It's not the "Jewish" people who are responsible, as many assert. It's the lizards who are behind the Jews.


[edit on 13-9-2009 by DeepSea]



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 03:40 AM
link   

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
I would say the lizards already know they're defeated and are trying to do as much slash and burn as possible before permanently retreating....


Really? Might you elaborate on that statement a bit? I cannot see any signs of defeat or retreat at all. On the contrary, destruction, greed, and craziness are thickening.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 08:47 AM
link   
What an interesting thread


I have a soul that can breath freely, I am afforded the right to pursue happiness in how I see fit. I do not feel the direct threat of Marshal Law from my political representation. I can own a shot gun or rifle and amo, for hunting purposes, I can own a compound or cross bow and arrows, I can freely protest and gather in public places as long as I am not violent and destructive. I can own land and build a home, I can keep and raise livestock, I can vote and have representation on my concerns. I can even participate in the process if driven so. I can travel freely throughout my country with no seemingly immediate danger of being under surveillance or having to succumb to being "chipped" in the near future.
As far as constitutions are concerned the only thing I have to do that is unconstitutional is pay taxes. Anyone can get married and pretty much have all the benefits afforded to them. I have a right to public education and have plenty of opportunities for scholarships along the way. Access to fantastic universities and latest technologies.

When I was 10 years old. I was visiting a friend near a busy highway. He was around 12 years old, and knew the area. Anyway to make a long story short I got hit by a car while driving his brothers bigger 10 speed bike too big for me. I was hit broadside flew off the windshield did three flips in the air and hit ground just wearing shorts and sneakers (we were going swimming) Anyway ambulance was called rushed to the nearest hospital for day then transferred to larger regional hospital for cat scan and other treatments, long stay in hospital for recovery. A nightmare for a ten year old.

I was looked after, had all the attention that the situation required, told how lucky I was and continued to live a healthy life.
My Dad worked for the federal government with veterans affairs and had a good health plan. It is nice to know that if my friend had been hit that day he would have got the exact same treatment even though his Dad was a blue collar worker with minimal coverage. Everyone is entitled to the same basic minimal health care in Canada where I am proud to be from. And it just so happens that our provincial (State in US) government is responsible for working in cooperation with feds to make things work. Most power lies with the Province. The point is, it just works. However it has to look it just should work. Farm style co-operatives for local communities or other collectives or gather all the best ideas from the countries that have figured it out and take the best ideas to make a U.S. version.

I can tell you that when something beyond your control reminds you that you are an insignificant ant in this fragile thing we call life you are happy to know that someone has your back.

We have a very interesting history about how our system was established
attached is a brief history

www.healthcoalition.ca...

cheers

and remember as our Health Coalition states: "Need, Not Greed"



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 11:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by endisnighe
As soon as I seen that HUNKA HUNKA posted this I had to see for myself what was going on.

HH, I myself am sitting in the basement of a wholly renovated house. My mother's. I feel absolutely devastated that I am not working. I have increased the value of the house 30-35k in value if we are talking 5-10 years ago. She paid for the materials, I gave the labor.


What do you want us to do? I myself an absolute Fiscal Conservative and Strict Constitutionalist.



Our liberties, our economy, our absolute conviction of the superiority of our way of life is turned upside down. Do you think we should give up on the freedoms that our father's have had? Do you think we should embrace the control that our government wants? You tell me. What liberty do we give up?
What freedom do we give up? What security is so valuable that the American people should accept bondage rather than freedom?

Yes, Yes I know, we are hardly free now.

But, I give you this option, If it was up to you-would you give up freedom for all of mankind, for the security that you so righteously think you deserve?


It's not about giving up freedoms, it's about how we approach problems.

For example, I know there are plenty of fiscal conservatives, like myself.. (surprise) that want to everyone to have health coverage, want to make bankruptcies from health related issues a thing of the past, but all I hear is Lizards saying "I don't want to take care of you!... If you want to eat hamburgers and french fries.. deal with the consequences!" Yet these are the same people who railed against the ban on trans fat in NYC.


That's what this is about. Not fighting against eachother but fighting for eachother. We MUST look out for our fellow man. Anyone who disagrees with that is a Lizard.

We can however disagree on the methods to accomplish that... but to say "You, my fellow American, are of no responsibility to me." is a statement which forgets the phrase from our Declaration of Independence...

"we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor"

This is what we must return to... this is not the voice of Lizards... this is the voice of those who have pledged everything they own to each other!



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 11:40 AM
link   
Excessive egoism, narcissism are big problems. But another problem, just as big, is the need to cathegorize people and throw them in the groups. Progressives, lizards.... This is just as bad. There is John that disagrees with you to some extent and Jake that agrees with you to some extent. Once you start drawing borders and waving some flags - it goes down the hill.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 12:13 PM
link   
so by your logic, anyone who doesn't agree with your outlook, and fits into your warped grouping is deemed a "lizard"?

so whats next, should all the "progressives" stomp out the "lizards"? i mean there not even human by your definition right? who cares if you end a few of them...


i know you never "said" that but by giving a group of people a label as such, you've implied it.

what if all the lizards as you call them started saying the progressives were fly's? and that they must defeat those fly's.

it doesn't send a very good message.

I am neither a progressive or a lizard. I want to help my fellow man (woman,child) i get a great sense of accomplishment and self-worth from helping perfect strangers with no reward other then my feelings.

to read your thread makes me a little sad, i see more and more people falling into the partisan trap, a trap designed to devide.

i wish the trap wasn't designed so well...

[edit on 9/13/2009 by Alaskan Man]



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 12:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I have been in some discussions lately with some people who claim to be anti-socialism and anti-progressive.


Yes. Socialism is a menace to society, proven time and time again. "Progressive" is a misnomer.



Their stance was that those who "love freedom" will never be a burden on anyone, and that if they have to take care of anyone, young, old, infirm, it is because of these peoples laziness.


...followed by the usual misrepresentation of the anti-socialist. The word "never" is an invalid generalization. Neither do I view the poor as "lazy", but merely stuck in a socialist-victim-mentality and therefore unperceiving of potential prosperity.



The more I discussed with these people, the more I saw they mistook self-reliance for narcissism.


Narcissism is the hallmark of the poor-me victim-mentality that always asks what it can get and take rather than give.



There is a myth that self reliance means never having to take care of anyone else. Self reliance is a code that even I live by, but it does not cause me to look on those who need help as lazy and unworthy of assistance!


Misrepresentation of the anti-socialist, again. I and many others are more than happy to share of the prosperity we have generated.



I have realized that those who oppose Healthcare as a right, those who oppose being their brothers keepers are Lizards.


Stereotyping.

Socialized Healthcare to some extent is fine. Not all of us automatically oppose socialized healthcare.

Lizards = Demonization.



The Romans felt it fine for a family to drop unwanted children at the trash dumps. This is the legacy of the Lizards.


More propagandistic demonization.



We must defeat those who are lizards


...followed by the usual call for agression.



who feel their superiority removes them from any obligation to their fellow man.


The usual "they are soulless tyrants" stereotype.



It is only a matter of time, but a great cataclysm will occur which brings all humanity together under one banner.


...followed by the final step of marxism: Totalitarian Dictatorship.





No offense, I generally enjoy your threads, but this goes a bit too far to the left



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 12:40 PM
link   
reply to post by Skyfloating
 


sky i wish i could give a thousand stars.


you nailed it.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 02:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by DeepSea
Really? Might you elaborate on that statement a bit? I cannot see any signs of defeat or retreat at all. On the contrary, destruction, greed, and craziness are thickening.


It's not retreat yet and I don't believe I stated such. I think it will pick up more. An old mode of thought promoted for the benefit of industrialization, one that is anti-community and anti-family, one meant as a means to enable exploitation without recourse of the exploited is on its way out. Divide people, make them believe that everything should be accomplished by the individual with no assistance, have them feel shameful to depend on others by asking for help and they become less able function on a moral level, fearful to rock the boat in objection because there is little left to back them up if they try.

A good way to break the cycle is to force the hand.

The death throes will be quite violent. Who will ultimately be exposed as a lizard or as a dove is uncertain. Some lizards disguise themselves as doves, at least to those who follow their call. My gut feeling is many lizards think they are doves, led to believe it by the ritual abuse of the system, disguised in misinformation and propaganda and are in for a rude awakening and much shame or destined for dust.

As Edgar Casey put it son of The Law of One or son of Belial?



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 02:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
As Edgar Casey put it son of The Law of One or son of Belial?


Edgar Cayces "Law of the One" refers to the Oneness of the Universe within which great diversity and freedom of choice is present, so that one can be "A" without wronging "B".

Collectivism is a retardation of oneness in the spiritual sense.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 03:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
As Edgar Casey put it son of The Law of One or son of Belial?


Edgar Cayces "Law of the One" refers to the Oneness of the Universe within which great diversity and freedom of choice is present, so that one can be "A" without wronging "B".

Collectivism is a retardation of oneness in the spiritual sense.


That's part of the truth. The rugged individualist is aghast at the idea that anyone receive anything, ever, without having gotten it through glorified misery and labor. And, there is no sharing without someone receiving. To talk of sharing and then disparage those receiving is pathological thought.

So, the work ethic espoused by the lizards mirrors the programming of the communist and the capitalist. They aren't so different.

However, I agree that emphasizing the collective to the detriment of the individual is retardation. There is no healthy body without healthy cells. Healthy cells won't stay healthy if they are in conflict, thus the body will suffer.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 11:57 PM
link   
reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Sky, you know I love you. But the fact remains that there are two types of people in this world. Those who care for others, and those who don't.

Am I demonizing? Sure... why? Because when those of us who care for others are being demonized as Sheeple, followers of a messiah, nazis, etc, it's time to stand up and fight for what you believe in. It's time to speak out for humans everywhere. I don't care if someone is opposed to Gov ran healthcare or not.. what matters is why. If their reason is because they don't want to take care of someone else... then they are Lizards plain and simple. What should be done with them? Only that their stance be defeated.

Zoroaster did the same thing so very long ago when faced with the same demons which arose in his times.

The strong are to be strong to protect the weak, to be noble in battle, and to provide an order in which humankind can flourish, not fear eachother.


Dissect the posts all you want. It's true. There are those who operate from fear (lizards) and those who operate from love (mammals).

In the end, we all know what direction evolution is tending and we all know who we are...

Long live the Mammal in each of us, and Death to the Lizard in all of us.

Do I advocate violence against anyone? No... I advocate only vigorous resistance against the Lizard in all of us.

It's time to rise up and herald the NEW WORLD ORDER OF HUMANITY!



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 12:00 AM
link   

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
As Edgar Casey put it son of The Law of One or son of Belial?


Edgar Cayces "Law of the One" refers to the Oneness of the Universe within which great diversity and freedom of choice is present, so that one can be "A" without wronging "B".

Collectivism is a retardation of oneness in the spiritual sense.


Collectivism today is most manifest in Corporatism.

There is no freedom of choice in the natural world, there is only the strong and the weak. If you want freedom of choice then you have to follow the statements in our declaration of independence...

"we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

There is no choice in that phrase other than to be your brothers keeper.

That is the only way you can protect any subsequent freedom of choice.

Paradoxical ain't it? In order to have freedom of choice, you must first choose to pledge your life, your fortune and your sacred honor to your fellow American.

Only then can you have any choice at all.

Other than that, you are simply leaving life to the chance of chaos.

[edit on 14-9-2009 by HunkaHunka]



new topics

top topics



 
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join