An FYI on illegals "not" paying taxes...

reply to post by stevegmu


If they pay rent they are paying for the mortgage (is some way)..

..Also..i know many Undocumented Immigrants that own houses..

reply to post by Next_Heap_With


Thank you.

This is what I am trying to discuss here.

The person I speak about in my OP also got paid under the table and STILL paid taxes. He didn't have to. Neither did you, but you both did. I would assume it was because, even though you didn't have the means to be able to have a piece of paper stating you are American, you wanted to show that you're worthy of being one regardless of the fact that you can't afford to be one.

reply to post by nunya13


Yep...
an Immigrants's dream is to come to this country and have a better life...

..They don't want to steal..we don't want to "leach" off the tax payers..

..they try/do learned English..and contributed to this country by paying taxes...

...and this is pretty much what EVERY undocumented Immigrant wants..

but unfortunately the right wing propaganda is getting inside people's head...

[edit on 15-9-2009 by Next_Heap_With]

reply to post by spaniar

Supporters of totalization point out that current U.S. law bans illegal immigrants from collecting Social Security benefits.

They're right about that. But there is no law prohibiting illegal immigrants with bogus Social Security numbers from paying into the system, something they and their employers do to the tune of more than $7 billion per year in payroll taxes.

That's money the illegal immigrants will never see again, and it has for years helped to keep the entitlement program afloat. So Social Security lives off ill-gotten goods -- the stolen taxes of millions of people, and the assumption that they'll never be claimed.

Bravo! Thank you for that information. Another MYTH dispelled.

reply to post by nunya13


So, every citizen in this country is required to pay into social security. Illegals are using FAKE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS, and therefore their money is also being put into social security -- along with everyone else's.

However, since they are not able to collect social security, this is considered theft?

Had they not used a fake social security number in the first place no money would have been taken and applied to social security!!

Again, nobody forces them to use fake ss numbers. It is a CHOICE they make when they do it.

And I guess I shouldn't bother with the whole part about it being illegal to fake a ss number.....

reply to post by Next_Heap_With


Your preaching to the choir man!

Here's my thing. I COMPLETELY understand people's frustration with people being here "illegaly". However, the means by which you have to become an American citizen is absolutely ludicrous. I mean, they require things of immigrants that MANY Americans never had to do. There parents just had to be on US soil in order for them to be an American so why is it that someone who WANTS to be an American has to first pay a ton of money and jump through all these hurdles?

It just doesn't make any sense to me.

And that is why, I think, that if these people, people like you, are paying their taxes, getting hosed by their employers and STILL over working themselves, buying American goods/houses/commodities, why can't they just be considered American?

reply to post by lpowell0627


I don't care about the "theft" terminology used in that report. I was pointing out that regardless of whether they had to or not, they did. That's what matters.

It's yet another myth dispelled that they are nothing but leeches and a drain on our society. That is the point that was being made.

edit to add: So they CHOSE to use a fake SS knowing that it would mean they had to pay money into a system that is meant to be returned in increments as a cushion later in life and they still CHOSE to do it.

They could just NOT use SS#'s. Then they would get paid under the table and you'd be complaining that that would mean they don't pay any taxes (even though we've shown with a few instances that that's necessarily true). So they decide to look legal while paying taxes legally.

I'm failing to understand your issue with illegals choosing to pay into a system that really doesn't even provide the same benefits that legal citizens get when they really don't even have to. They WANT TO.

Why is that a problem to you? Why does it matter to you that they are here, paying taxes, living an American life, but they couldn't pay for a peice of paper to say they are just like everyone else here...living day by day, trying to contribute to society and provide for their family.

Do you really think that, had they been ABLE TO they wouldn't jump at the chance to be a bonafide American? Or is it easier for you to believe they want to just snub us and our laws on purpose?

We're just supposed to condemn these people to a life worse off in Mexico (now think about that because they would rather work in AMERICA for $3/hr than live off the wages they get in Mexico) than bless them with the opportunities America has to provide just because they can't afford to?

[edit on 15-9-2009 by nunya13]

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by svpwizard
Ohhh the economy yeh they are taking those high / middle paying jobs away from Americans!!! another myth.

It's not a myth at all. Construction business has been one of the largest drivers of the economy and employed a lot of people, and guess what, lots of the construction workers were/are illegals. Then of course this becomes the problem of chicken and the egg, because when wages in a particular sector are already depressed thanks to the illegals, US citizens indeed won't take these jobs.

Frankly, it doesn't even matter to me if an illegal tried to pay taxes (likely using a stolen SSN). They broke the law no matter what by coming here. It's almost like a petty thief tries to look good by giving a few bucks to charity.

you are almost correct, really your no where near correct but anyway ...

from 2000 and that was a good year for construction remember .....

sales and office - 34,621,000
professional and related - 26,199,000
production and transport. - 19,968,000
service - 19,277,000
mgmt, financial, bus. - 17,448,000
construction and maint. - 12,256,000
farming, fishing, forestry 952,000

now based on what has already been proven as fact...... the TOP POSITIONS have been outsourced!!!!

sales and office - 34,621,000
professional and related - 26,199,000
production and transport. - 19,968,000

can you possibly see for a split second that your argument goes NO WHERE...........

Anyway the link is here for you to see the numbers.

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by lpowell0627

 

I don't care about the "theft" terminology used in that report. I was pointing out that regardless of whether they had to or not, they did. That's what matters.

It's yet another myth dispelled that they are nothing but leeches and a drain on our society. That is the point that was being made.

How can you be so willing to overlook the simple fact that:

1. they needed a job
2. they needed a social security number to get said job
3. They then stole a fake social security number for said job
4. As with everyone else, social security is taken right out of your paycheck.

You seem to have a picture in your head of illegals happily marching to their local tax office and saying, "here...I want to contribute to social security."

You seem to completely overlook the part about social security being taken directly out of the paycheck -- which is triggered by the FAKE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER.

Originally posted by jd140
Rarely does a person who gets paid under the table pay taxes. That goes for real Americans also.

I think someone is giving you the runaround.

Are you aware that the government, fed state county and local, spends over 75% of the GNP? And how much are our taxes? Duh. So they don't pay federal. They still pay a heck of a lot. When they spend any money, when they take taxis or buses. When they pay any fees or other hidden taxes. I tell you this; rarely does a rich American pay any Federal, either. They are just plain stupid if they are. There are all kinds of ways to avoid paying, legally, federal taxes. So the illegals are paying alot in taxes, BUT they are also stealing American jobs. They are also breaking the law, and they just voted in an illegal alien into the House. I won't call it white for the time being. I think someone gave YOU the runaround!

reply to post by lpowell0627
...and let's not forget, that when they use YOUR social security number, YOU get credited for their work, on YOUR benefits. Hey, maybe I should rent out my number!

I get this picture in my head ......


Ok all the laws broken lets count them and see who we need to beat with the club ok......


So you have pesky illegal, he come to the country wanting to make a future (that he can;t get anything from) and feed a family. he didn't come here to beat-up old ladies and rob banks, he left that to the bankers and politicians.

He broke the immigration law.

now before he even got here what happened?

Politicians broke MANY laws, by not protecting the borders, enforcing laws governing immigration, Not enforcing what was happening for how many years (LOTS) before the little Mexican showed up, because these problems have been ongoing since way before the illegal was even born!!

The IRS (what a joke) state and local governments all broke laws EVERY WEEK by allowing the taxes to be collected from ILLEGALS in the first place. no one tracked em down .... they had the ADDRESS to go to even remember that.

Police and official agencies broke the laws lots of them , because they didn't want to over burden an already cash strapped system with something else to worry about especially since all they were doing was WORKING HARD! ooooohhhh what a terrible crime. why chase them when there are violent criminals out there or pot smokers .... ohhh yeh they are breaking the laws too SNACK FREAKS.

Companies large and small alike, broke laws lots of them, for even thinking they could compete with the major corporations and hiring those illegals.

Landlords broke laws lots of them for even renting to them.

and you want to club the illegal for doing what? braking the immigration law of WORKING for a living.

bringing up the FACT that Americans in total are all from someplace else.... and those NATIVE AMERICANS needed to be moved anyway right, who did they think they were anyway??

It is never and will never be about IMMIGRATION, it is and will always be about MONEY!

just like poverty is, this is much bigger than the illegals and making them go home doesn't solve anything, look around you, you think those strip malls and stores are closing because of the illegals, they are closing because there is NO ONE TO BUY ANYTHING..... not even the illegals since your kicking em out.

reply to post by Gregarious



You're kidding, right? Wealthy people don't pay taxes?

link


Buying beer, burritos and work-gloves no where near pays for the burden illegals add to states. Do you think it is a coincidence the state with the poorest financial outlook, who needs money from the federal government to pay its workers, is also the state with the highest percentage of illegals?

reply to post by lpowell0627


I fail to understand your point. I'm not disagreeing with you about them using a fake SS#.

Once again, I wasn't focusing on the "we're stealing their SS money" argument. I think it is actually not a valid point due to the circumstances you have pointed out that they knew what they were getting into.

I used the report to state that the argument that illegals are going to get social security that isn't even theirs is an incorrect one.

I'm not debating the circumstances, just the results.

Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by Gregarious

 

Buying beer, burritos and work-gloves no where near pays for the burden illegals add to states.

Do you expect people to see any of your points as valid when you make comments like these and the ones about ACORN lawyers?

What is the burden they put on states? They, for the most part, pay taxes, buy goods (and NOT just burritos and gloves!) and the businesses make more of a profit if they hire them because they work more for less and some don't even have them listed as employees so the businesses themselves don't have to pay taxes on them.

If they get some sort of welfare, once again, they pay no less taxes than legal citizens who are on welfare.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by nunya13]

Originally posted by svpwizard


and you want to club the illegal for doing what? braking the immigration law of WORKING for a living.

Great point! Most people who break the law harm another or are a danger to society.

But we're going to chastise these guys for...OMG...wanting to live a good life because their own treats them worse than we already do?

What a bunch of slime balls. How horrible! We don't need hard working people who care a lot about the welfare of their families living HERE!

reply to post by Gregarious


That's true, something else to argue about is that identity theft is not using someones SSI number, its all the id that goes with it.

illegals aren't getting someones information and living under that name, they picked a 9 digit number out of the blue. and that's that.

I lived in the states under
MY REAL NAME
MY REAL SIN NUIMBER
MY REAL DRIVERS LICENSE NUMBER (they took my license and gave me an American one)

just so happened my SIN number was the same as someone else, who by the way is enjoying his social security become the money I added to it for 30 years increased his INCOME, I bet you wont see him complaining...

reply to post by svpwizard


Your entire argument is based on the following concept:

The entire country is made up of crooks that break laws constantly. Therefore, illegals should be accepted because they break less laws or break laws you deem to be less important.

I find that to be an incredibly outlandish argument.

Further, you seem to forget every post in which I stated that if I were going after law breakers illegals would not be on the top of my list. However, that does not make it right!

reply to post by stevegmu
Look, I stand by what I said, and could prove it if I needed to. There are all kinds of riders put into bills to give 'donors' tax breaks. There are all kinds of govt. bonds that are guaranteed to pull down a good return, with zero taxes taken out. And they can run their 'business' from their home, have the company own their car, and jet, jets, and all the other toys, too. Computers, cell phones, you name it. And the allowance to children? Put em on the payroll. Talk to any accountant, or tax man. If they are paying ANY fed taxes, it is because they choose to for convenience, or they are just plain stupid. Usually, the old money has their affairs already arranged this way, it is only the noveau riche that do not know these things, yet. It takes awhile. Getting rich can be time consuming, and they don't have the time or energy to research this right. If they hire the right accountant or tax guy, that is adequate. But it takes a lot of knowledge to do this. That is why the old money has a leg up.