An FYI on illegals "not" paying taxes...

reply to post by Rams59lb


I would agree with getting a hold of the situation but you see this WILL NEVER happen, and it wont happen because they don't want it to happen.

Its better to keep the back biting going on, its better to have a active diversion to the actually problems causing the economical spiral out of control (insert bad illegal here).

Just use simple MATH to figure it out. you have 20+ MILLION people paying into a system they are and can not deduct from, that's a lot of slush money kids......

Ohhh the economy yeh they are taking those high / middle paying jobs away from Americans!!! another myth. the politicians and CEO took care of that part for you, call a support / customer service phone number, that's not Mexico your talking to, that's INDIA, and those X-rays and TAX returns (yes tax returns) are being processed OVERSEAS ...... so stop chasing your tail and look at the fire not the smoke they want you to watch.

This has so gotten people upset at the wrong people, they always use the hate card just like they did in the past

1800's blamed the Chinese immigrants
1900's blamed the Native Indians
1930's blamed the Italians Immigrants
1950's blamed the Blacks

so on and so on ...... just a bunch of sheepal biting whoever they want you too....

I really do feel bad for the US, I have family there and a vested interest but I think what will inevitable happen as is already in full throttle. they will CRASH the models are not sustainable.

This generation will know poverty like the 20-30's and not know who to blame but some imaginary people / person when in fact the whole time as history proves will be the politicians and bankers who did it all for profit.

Originally posted by svpwizard
Ohhh the economy yeh they are taking those high / middle paying jobs away from Americans!!! another myth.

It's not a myth at all. Construction business has been one of the largest drivers of the economy and employed a lot of people, and guess what, lots of the construction workers were/are illegals. Then of course this becomes the problem of chicken and the egg, because when wages in a particular sector are already depressed thanks to the illegals, US citizens indeed won't take these jobs.

Frankly, it doesn't even matter to me if an illegal tried to pay taxes (likely using a stolen SSN). They broke the law no matter what by coming here. It's almost like a petty thief tries to look good by giving a few bucks to charity.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Afraid logic is wasted on angry people like you because you will not take the time to figure it out, it much easier to blame someone you can see.

this outsourcing of jobs started in 1995 I know I was a part of the process, Illegals were here back in the 90's and nothing was done, because it wasn't a problem, it was actually propping up a failing system, for the jobs they were outsourcing overseas at 2k a year compared to the 25-30K they had to pay stateside.

Once the ball got rolling, it was too late to turn back because the price of labor was already falling (1995 or so) cheap illegals just filled a need for other companies to be able to compete with big corporations, so the blame isn't the chicken or the egg, but the FARMER (government).

Illegals are not the problem as so many people want to demonize them. they would in fact be a solution if someone would get on the ball and make them LEGAL, and stop with your two faces they broke the law crap, that is such a tired excuse, you break the law every day as so many others and to different degrees, laws depending on what they are obviously NEED to be there, but some laws are just plain old STUPID, sure hope you didn't live in Georgia pre 1998 because all those married people and singles who performed ORAL SEX were in fact LAW BREAKERS.... so get off you legal horse and see it for what it is.

A SHAM

something else to consider for the whats its worth category, the road to legalization is FAR from simple and extremely expensive (just another factoid for you, the US has one of the most complicated and expensive immigration procedures in the WORLD, and in most cases even the immigration officers don't understand it), but it does keep all the lawyers working.

People with no first hand experience have NO idea what a miserable joke your immigration system really is.

Originally posted by endisnighe
My 2 cents.

The client and you, should be charged with conspiracy to commit a crime, if in anyway you give advice or implement any actions that suborn these actions.

I would tell your client to call the INS and get this person deported. I would also report the employer to the police for breaking the law. But of course this is only me. AN AMERICAN.

Where's the conspiracy? Please tell. Our client is making sure evey thing is done LEGALLY. Please let me know where anything was done illegally.

They(yes almost all of them-construction super here-turn them in as often as possible) report their income and pay taxes for one purpose only. They claim outrageous amounts of children and collect more money than they pay in. This is not tax evasion, a lower offense, but tax fraud.

They worked him 60 hours a week. He paid $1,500 in taxes on that. Our client said she did the math and what he got paid for the full year working those kinds of hours worked out to be only $3.00 an hour. If you do the math, you will see that he paid at least 13% in taxes on his income.

There is no tax fraud to be had. He filed a return when he could not have. He had no W-2, but he still made wages that needed to be reported. The only way the CPA could think of how to do that was to file it as a schedule C. If you know about tax returns you would know this is the only other alternative next to not filing a return at all. Would you rather he did that?

She has a much better chance if she can prove that he's been a good citizen abiding by the rules.

And this is really where you piss me off, a good citizen? CITIZEN?
I suppose you are a lawyer too? Both of you should be disbarred if so. You are committing a crime. NUFF SAID

I'm so sorry I used the wrong terminology. Let me rephrase: he's a contributing member to American society regardless of his citizenship status.

I'm not a lawyer. How is what she's doing illegal? Being an immigration lawyer, I'm sure she knows the laws much better than you do and wouldn't even bother with this guy if it was something that was going to land her in jail.

Would it be smart for someone to file charges against another person who robbed their house and stole their coc aine stash? I'm sure you see the analogy.

Maybe you should be less hostile and try discussing this in a rational manner.

If he was such a "good citizen" he wouldn't be here ILLEGALLY in the first place.

No amount of money paid to the government (in this case in the form of alleged paid taxes) should pardon any person that commits a crime. Being in this country illegally is a crime.

Therefore, he should immediately be reported to the proper authorities and deported before he can even say "but..."

Period.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
If he was such a "good citizen" he wouldn't be here ILLEGALLY in the first place.

No amount of money paid to the government (in this case in the form of alleged paid taxes) should pardon any person that commits a crime. Being in this country illegally is a crime.

Therefore, he should immediately be reported to the proper authorities and deported before he can even say "but..."

Period.

Yeh, I think I have to give in here, logic is just not going to be in this thread.

there is no laws and penalties is so ridiculous I can't read anymore. laws and penalties are for the stupid and poor, if you have ENOUGH money and power its nothing but a cost of doing business.

beating up illegals with the "you broke the law" club needs to be used on you for being a parot for the law abiding polititians and bankers..... LOL that is such a oxy moron its funny even when I write it.


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Originally posted by svpwizard
Illegals are not the problem as so many people want to demonize them. they would in fact be a solution if someone would get on the ball and make them LEGAL, and stop with your two faces they broke the law crap, that is such a tired excuse, you break the law every day as so many others and to different degrees, laws depending on what they are obviously NEED to be there, but some laws are just plain old STUPID

I think that laws that govern the nation's security (and job security), and particularly in the area that controls access to US soil to foreign nationals, are "plain old stupid". Also, please don't assume that I am breaking the law "every day", this is an insult and bullcrap, shame on you.

If you insist that we leave in Mexico, how about you show us the way and move there first?

reply to post by lpowell0627


By the BY ..... you think all the financial problems states more specifically the southern (illegal alien states) are having isn't fueled by the lack of INCOME from ILLEGAL TAXES .....

nothing like cutting of your nose to spite your face. well just leave more tax money to drain from you hard working / UNDEREMPLOYED Americans huh.

When its all said and done, clean out the illegals workers your gonna need another person to blame, it just goes on and onnnnnnnnnn. like this thread.

reply to post by nunya13


She wouldn't be an ACORN illegal immigration lawyer, would she?

reply to post by svpwizard


1. The majority of states are losing money due to foreclosed homes. Empty homes = no property taxes.

2. States are losing money from lack of state taxes. No jobs = no tax. No job = no spending.

3. States are losing money because the number of people dependent on gov't resources has sky-rocketed.

4. There is no proof anywhere that states are in the hole they are in because illegals have stopped paying taxes. If you can't provide proof for this statement, it should be retracted.

Lastly, I am fully aware that "money makes the world go 'round". However, it's wrong that it does and change has to start somewhere.

I for one am sick and tired of complaining about all of the people that buy their way out of everything. Illegals are inlcuded in this group, but they are certainly not on the top of my "who to go after first" list. Nevertheless, that's whom this thread is about.

I stand by my post. Committing a crime such as the ones mentioned at the beginning of this thread (i.e. filing the incorrect tax forms to hide the fact he is here illegally) should make this particular illegal ineligible for citizenship. Period.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by lpowell0627]

Originally posted by svpwizard
there is no laws and penalties is so ridiculous I can't read anymore. laws and penalties are for the stupid and poor, if you have ENOUGH money and power its nothing but a cost of doing business.

beating up illegals with the "you broke the law" club needs to be used on you for being a parot for the law abiding polititians and bankers..... LOL that is such a oxy moron its funny even when I write it.

So...let me get this straight. You agree with me that it's wrong.

HOWEVER, you think that because "everyone else" gets away with it, so should illegals.

So, your theory is that many wrongs make a right? C'mon.

Change has to start somewhere. As I said in another post, illegals would not be on the top of my who to go after first list, but that's what this thread is about.


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Originally posted by stevegmu
He should be charged with tax fraud, then deported. If he is illegal, how did he file a return? He clearly wasn't working for a chain restaurant, because even McDonald's won't hire illegals. The franchisee has too much to lose if they get caught.

Ahh well I've worked for a number of (reputable) fast food franchises - and I've helped out with the paper work to the level that I am sure that should one of them wish to hire a few illegals it would probably be quite easy - the franchises are all but privately run buy the franchise holder - some times they work together in bigger groups like 5 stores...

But basically it does happen that almost all of the staff is illegal - totally fake staff members are used on paper - the illegals are paid low, the rest of the money is syphoned off the books.

But yhea I agree it's usually the stand alone business that are the wronguns.

reply to post by lpowell0627



I wonder which is worse, politicians not paying their taxes or an illegal paying his or her taxes.

Just a thought

Anyways

Foreign workers who are illegal aliens are subject to U.S. taxes in spite of their illegal status. U.S. employers or payers who hire illegal aliens may be subject to various fines, penalties, and sanctions imposed by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

www.irs.gov...=105085,00.html


Returns are filed with an ITIN number.

edit to remove quote.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by jam321]

reply to post by lpowell0627


I have as much proof as you do, probably more since I actually have lived through the magic you call the immigration process.

I didn't say it was the reason, if I did I retract it, I did say it was fueling, and stand by the statement.

it affects all aspects of the economy, you can't just cut 20+ million out of a system they have been propping up without some FALLOUT.

among many articles about the side affects of kicking em out.


Link that isn't gonna prove anything to you anyway ....

reply to post by svpwizard


I know I'm a couple of pages behind but I have to tell you "Here, Here", you've said it all and stated very well. I have no disagreements with you on anything that you've said.

The fire is the key, not the smoke! Great post

FYI,

Cheers.

Commentary: Social Security is about math, not Mexicans
By Ruben Navarrette Jr.
Special to CNN

SAN DIEGO, California (CNN) -- For more than a decade, I've written about the need to reform Social Security. And I've blamed older generations of Americans for not fixing a program they know is unsustainable into the future.

My bad. It turns out, if I wanted to get everyone up in arms, all I needed to do was blame illegal immigrants.

Ah, yes. The folks who, we are told, wrecked our schools, ruined our environment and lowered our wages are now poised to steal our Social Security.

Oh, there's some stealing going on all right, but it doesn't have anything to do with illegal immigrants.

Here's the drill: Social Security is an intergenerational shakedown. Every generation pays for the preceding one. Sixty-nine million baby boomers have no problem paying for the World War II generation because, well, there are 69 million of them. But imagine the burden on younger workers of having to keep legions of aging flower children in a comfy retirement.

In 1946, the cost of supporting one retiree was split between 42 workers. Now, we're approaching the point where two workers will support each retiree. The trouble begins in 2016 when -- according to experts -- more will be going out in benefits than will be coming in as payroll taxes.

This is what I worry about -- the math. But, for others, the worry is about something altogether different -- the Mexicans.

Immigration restrictionists are apoplectic over the news that the United States has entered into a "totalization" agreement with Mexico. Under these agreements, which the United States has with 21 other countries, workers who work in two countries during their careers can combine what they earned in both places to qualify for retirement benefits under one or both systems. The restrictionists insist that the U.S. government has conspired with Mexico to let illegal immigrants loot the Social Security system.

That would be quite a charge, if true. But these pacts apply only to people who are working legally.

The worry is that, if Congress passes guest-worker legislation that gives some number of illegal immigrants a "work-authorized" Social Security number, the worker might be in a position, if he met eligibility requirements, to apply for Social Security benefits, including those earned while in the country illegally.

Supporters of totalization point out that current U.S. law bans illegal immigrants from collecting Social Security benefits.

They're right about that. But there is no law prohibiting illegal immigrants with bogus Social Security numbers from paying into the system, something they and their employers do to the tune of more than $7 billion per year in payroll taxes.

That's money the illegal immigrants will never see again, and it has for years helped to keep the entitlement program afloat. So Social Security lives off ill-gotten goods -- the stolen taxes of millions of people, and the assumption that they'll never be claimed.

How odd that the closed-border, closed-mind crowd isn't nearly as troubled by this part of the equation.

Ruben Navarrette Jr. is a member of the editorial board of The San Diego Union-Tribune and a nationally syndicated columnist. Click here to read his column.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of the writer.

1. Illegal Immigrants Pay Taxes... Unless..
2. They work under the table..but..wait..Americans also work under the table..so..


[edit on 15-9-2009 by Next_Heap_With]

reply to post by jam321


Thank you so much for that info, Jam! Much appreciated.

It seems my thread got derailed and has turned into an issue of the acceptability of illegals even being here in the first place.

It's not.

The whole point of this thread was to quell the excuse that most people use to justify why they have a problem with illegals even being here by saying they don't pay taxes like the rest of us.

I think that is, for the most part, a myth (and the problem is not more widespread than American citizens not paying taxes) and that's what I wanted to discuss. Other than that, I'm not interested in hearing why anyone thinks that only people who can afford to be here should be allowed to.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by nunya13]

reply to post by Now_Then


I don't believe it. If they are a franchisee, there's no way an owner would risk losing his store or stores to save a a couple bucks. A rogue manager, on the other hand, may do so, and pocket the difference, but he's probably stealing from the company anyway.
I know McDonald's would have new hires call a number, answer a couple questions, and give their Social Security number, so that the store would get a tax credit if a certain percentage of their workers were minorities.

reply to post by nunya13


A very few % of illegals may have taxes taken out, but that in no way covers the expense of educating their anchor-babies, or visits to the emergency room. In my area, public education costs the tax-payers about $8500/year/student. Public education is paid for through property taxes and the state. Having a couple dollars taken out for federal and state taxes via a fake SS # nowhere near covers the cost. Unless they buy their homes cash, or had ACORN get them an illegal mortgage, they aren't paying property tax. Most are renters.