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Charles Darwin film 'too controversial for religious America'

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posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix
People think they see all kinds of things when they observe cloud formations and tea leaves too. What someone thinks they see inside the womb at various times of the human developement is not a good argument to support your theory of evolution.


I cannot believe you can say this with a straight face and not realize the irony. Religious people are the kings and queens of seeing things that aren't there. Have you noticed the ridiculous amount of articles on how people are seeing Jesus in their food, animals fur, soap, and even their pets anus? How can you tell me that the angel you saw wasn't a hallucination? Did you ever even consider that?




posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 



Repeat evolution then.


It happens all around you. Everywhere. Some people simply refuse to see what is plainly evident right in front of their faces.

But, to see BIG changes?? Humans don't live long enough, individually. I've pointed that out already, I'd think intellectually honest people would understand that aspect.....



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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So having, unforeseen circumstances notwithstanding, given up on, to paraphrase Wilde, the ineluctable in pursuit of the unspeakable, I thought I'd add some thoughts about the film in the OP...
It seems to me that in playing Darwin, Paul Bettany is sort of revisiting & expanding on, if not exactly reprising, his role in the film Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World which I enjoyed. Bettany's performance as the doctor was 1 of the best things about the film, but the very best was the scene where Russel Crowe as the captain asks the Dr. to choose between 2 weevils in some bread set between them. The Dr. chooses the larger, in what I took to allude to the oft misunderstood characterisation of Darwin's theory of Natural Selection as being summed up in the phrase "survival of the fittest", which of course was absent from The Origin until later editions.
"I have you!" exclaimes the captain, "Do you not know that, in the Service [ie Navy], one must always choose the lesser of two weevils?"
Yes, well... Very nerdy joke, but I love language so I thought it hilarious.
There'll not likely be much in the way of naval battles etc in this film, so I expect it might not appeal to huge numbers of average cinema goers, but then again "A Beautiful Mind" did well, so perhaps it would draw in a more discerning audience. I'm looking forward to it.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:38 PM
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anyone stop to consider the film might not even be THAT GOOD?



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by GeeGee

Originally posted by John Matrix
People think they see all kinds of things when they observe cloud formations and tea leaves too. What someone thinks they see inside the womb at various times of the human developement is not a good argument to support your theory of evolution.


I cannot believe you can say this with a straight face and not realize the irony. Religious people are the kings and queens of seeing things that aren't there. Have you noticed the ridiculous amount of articles on how people are seeing Jesus in their food, animals fur, soap, and even their pets anus? How can you tell me that the angel you saw wasn't a hallucination? Did you ever even consider that?


I said that because his statement or argument for evolution is based on a proven fraud(embryonic recapitulation):
www.geocities.com...

I provided two other links....should I repeat myself?

Are you writing off everyone that claims to believe in God and His Holy Word?

Are you writing off everyone that claims to have had a spiritual visitation and awakening?

I cannot help it if people claiming to be religious make the claims you mention above. Nutjobs are everywhere, and I dare say many evolutionists have proven to be nutjobs...so let's not go there...OK?

What I can do is test the spirits to see if they are from God or not.....but you have to know a bit about God and his Word to do that.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by LightFantastic
 
Oh, I know quite a few who have a personal belief in some form of divinity, even if its totally nebulous. Its the religion part that just about everyone has given up on. Yeah tho, the churches are closing fast. There's a few that have been turned into nightclubs, which is pretty cool because of the acoustics. Well, & the humour value, a la "God Is A DJ"!



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by Jezus
Scientists say complexity is the result of evolution because they understand the biological mechanics.

Creationists say complexity is the result of "God" because they don't understand the biological mechanics.


Oh, I see...you have to be an evolutionists to understand biological mechanics.


I should have thought that. Thank you for that information.

Understanding bio mechanics and expressing an opinion concerning it's origin are two different things. Creationists see it originating with the creator.


I'm just saying that in the scientific world this debate doesn't exist.

The entire evolution VS creationism topic is a phenomenon created by politics fueled by people selling books.

Evolution is a natural process and the question of Is "God" behind natural processes is a completely separate issue.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:13 PM
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I asked this question:

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
if we suddenly started discovering huge deposits of human fossils in the same layers of sedimentary rock as dinosaur fossils, such a finding would falsify current scientific theories. But that's how the scientific method works, theories are adjusted based on observational evidence. Can you give an example of how observational evidence might be found that could similarly disprove the theories in creation science?


To which you replied:

Originally posted by John Matrix
Unfortunately I cannot satisfy your need for such evidence because none exists.
Which makes the creation model that much more reasonable, logical, sound, and believable.


Please allow me to clarify.
I didn't ask you to provide evidence of how creation science is false.
I asked you to provide an example of what type of evidence WOULD prove creation science false, if we were to discover it tomorrow.
For example, we haven't found human bones in the same sedimentary layer as dinosaur bones either, but I can give you that example of evidence that COULD BE found tomorrow that would disprove our current theories on evolution. I'm asking you if you can provide a similar example of what type of evidence, not found yet, COULD disprove creation science if it were to be found tomorrow.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by imdeceived


hahahahhahahaha it seems that the americans are too stupid for this movie. Let alone the eternal war between evolution and creation, it is just a movie. . Obviously the american can't do that so this movie gets censored.






hahahahhahahaha it seems that the americans are too stupid for this movie.


Then he says:




You can judge someones's intellect by his capacity to respect someone else opinion and debate in a civil manner


Ironic, isn't it



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by John Matrix
 



Believe that you were a fish in the womb, then became a chicken, then became....bla...bla...bla.


"blah...blah...blah".???

That isn't what he was saying.

The evolutionary heritage is IN our DNA, as displayed in the embryonic stages.

The chromosomes making up the Human genome activate during fetal development, thus forming us eventually.

LOOK at he gestation of other mammals too. There will be striking similarities, but of course differences too, along the way, because of THEIR genomes being activated as they mature.



Jeez see what happens when our public school system uses idiotic fraudulent images of embryos still being used by self admitted fraudster ernst haekel.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker


But, to see BIG changes?? Humans don't live long enough, individually. I've pointed that out already, I'd think intellectually honest people would understand that aspect.....


Then how do we know they happen at all? Not that I don't know what you're going to say but humor me for a moment and in your words, please, by all means share with us how this is proven, using the scientific method and Ill show you where it trips over the logical fallacy for assuming the consequent just like ID does EVERY TIME

Ill wait

[edit on 16-9-2009 by Stylez]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by Stylez
 



....still being used by self admitted fraudster ernst haekel.


Well, perhaps an example of ACTUAL textbooks still being used in the U.S. school systems that still are using a discredited work by the 'fraudster'??

Kansas???



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by Stylez
 



...and in your words, please, by all means share with us how this is proven, using the scientific method...


In my own words??? There are only 10,000 characters allowed per post. I have linked but just a few websites previously, they may speak for me.

My own words would require a graduate-level course in the multitude of various scientific disciplines required. Obviously, this is not a venue for that!!

No, if a person who was genuinely interested in learning something couldn't "get it" by visiting sites and reading books on the subjects, which range as far and wide as paleontology, biology, anthropology, chemistry, organic chemistry, genetics....etc....then that person simply is not interested in learning.

Instead, some people find it far easier to think of an over-simplified version of "GOD DID IT" or something like that....and I happen to think that a person who actually BELIEVES in the 'creator' and/or a 'supreme being' is deliberately abusing his/her privelege as a Human with a brain that exceeds the capacity of any other creature on this planet (that we know of...) by not excersing the intellectual capacity that is "designed in" according to their stated beliefs.

See the irony???



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 
@ Last! Here comes your coup de grace, John. PLease accept it gracefully.

If evidence does not support evolution, what other alternative is there?
Evolution = Natural processe creating life, and thousands of new species of life.
Creation = Supernatural creation of life.
In all the Universe of THINGS, I see but two states for ALL:
1. Nature left to itself and it's own internal workings, and;
2. The Supernatural manisfested in nature.
Just because you, or billions of people, cannot imagine that there is any other explanation does not mean that there isn't 1, or several. Off the top of my head, it could be that through some as yet unknown quantum state, the sub-atomic particles within the molecular structure of organic compounds have tendencies to combine in particular ways, so they act like a template, driving the formation of life & evolution to particular patterns, but without supernatural interference. How about "morphogenic fields"? There's plenty of anecdotal evidence of chi, auras, etc. What if an adverse environment causes an urge to overcome the problem so powerful the field literally alters the DNA that an organism passes to its offspring, thus altering the body favourably, supernaturally, but without intelligent design? Where did it start in the 1st place? Perhaps the universe is infinite & it didn't start, but has always been here.
Far fetched? I agree, but it doesn't matter what you or I can imagine: the greatest scientific breakthroughs are made by intellectual giants precisely because they can imagine things the rest of us cant. Thus, to ignore the possibilities is illogical & therefore unscientific. Remember, "logical" in scientific jargon doesn't mean "makes sense to me": it means that a statement must be irrefutable before it can be trusted to form a step to the next idea. Creation as the only option to evolution is not, thus creationism is illogical.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 

Make fun of me all you want. Be condescending all you want. Get cute all you want. Insult creationists all you want. It changes nothing.
It is what it is.
John, please dont attempt the moral highground when you yourself have engaged is just as much smartarsery as I. I'm not certain what you mean by "get cute", but deducing from your last usage, if you mean demonstrating a point through reasoning that you dont like, I'm afraid that formal logic is a indispensable part of science. So, basically, if a set of ideas is not up to the challenge, they have no place in science.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by Stylez

Originally posted by weedwhacker


But, to see BIG changes?? Humans don't live long enough, individually. I've pointed that out already, I'd think intellectually honest people would understand that aspect.....


Then how do we know they happen at all?


I know you didn't ask me, but I think the evidence can speak for itself in this case, showing transitional forms of land mammals evolving into whales in the fossil record:



If you watch that with an open mind it might be quite illuminating, but if you don't have an open mind, then there's really not much point in looking at any evidence.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 05:22 PM
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It's pretty sad that in the year 2009 people are still so old fashion and closed minded they won't even consider science, or theories. No one forces anyone to believe anything if you believe in creationism or some other form of creation that is fine that's your right, but the information should still be allowed to the public to make up their own minds. I for one believe in evolution but I do not believe in evolution from species to species. I don't believe a mouse turns into a bird a ape turns into a human. I just don't see what people are so scared of. Real progress is made from a thought, a idea, a theory, a concept, that is then improved apon. We'd still be living in the dark ages if people still thought in these old fashion ways. People need to wake up.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 05:36 PM
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I first became aware of evolution as a high school student, when my brother brought home the book 'The Naked Ape' from college. I believed my parents were in the dark ages. I read this book stealthily, and kept it hidden in my closet. My transformation from reading this book and hearing evolution presented as FACT in my high school and university biology classes, made it almost a foregone conclusion that I would become an atheist. If there is no creator, how can there be a God? So don't assume that those of us who now can see that creation science explains things JUST AS WELL OR BETTER than evolution are uneducated. I didn't give up on my faith in evolution until years AFTER I accepted Christ as my savior when I was 24.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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Divide and Conquer, Divide and Conquer, Divide and Conquer, Divide and Conquer, Divide and Conquer, Divide and Conquer, Divide and Conquer, Divide and Conquer, Divide and Conquer, Divide and Conquer, Divide and Conquer, Divide and Conquer, Divide and Conquer, Divide and Conquer, Divide and Conquer, Divide and Conquer!

You guys might not see this because everyone is too busy defending their
side.
1) There is no such thing as a controversial video about religion. The only
reason people perceive it as controversial is because their faith is already
rocky. If people had strong faith this video would be shown everyone and let the people decide.

2) There are more important things in the world to solve, why do you fight
with each other? All that should matter is that we are here! Does it matter if we descended from apes or made by god? It shouldn't, if it does then you seriously need help.

We are on a small planet, we should be working together to achieve greater good. These things are put here to cause us to split further.

Think about it, You have:

Christians:
Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholic Churches, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox Church, Assyrian Church of the East, Anglican Churches, Protestantism, and the list goes on and on.

You have Islam:
Ahmadiyya, Shi'a, Sunni, Sufism

Buddhism, Hinduism, Paganism, Taoism, Judaism and etc.

All those break up into smaller sects!

Then you have:

Republicans, Democrats, Right wingers, left wingers, communism, etc.

To further divide us we are all separated by invisible lines!

Why can't we all just get along? I mean no one could solve the problems
we have by working alone. We must work as a society. I know my words are going to fall into deaf ears.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by novacs4me
 

Abstinence is working for Isaac and Simon - and for tens of thousands of teens and twentysomethings proudly attending virginity rallies in Uganda. But Aids activists and development officials point to the 130,000 Ugandans infected with HIV last year alone [2006] - up from 70,000 in 2002 - and say the recent obsession with abstinence is handicapping the country's once-successful fight against the virus.
Health workers see the fingerprints of America's Christian right all over the chastity message and believe the Bush administration is using its financial might to bully them into accepting evangelical ideology at the expense of public health.
www.independent.co.uk...
So evangelical pastors are looking after the orphans, eh? Seems like the least they can do, since there wouldn't be so many dead parents if the christians weren't so desperate to stop people "sinning" that they'd rather watch them die of AIDS than countenance sex with condoms.

You are incorrect to think that Christianity will be gone in 200 years. Jesus will return as He promised He would, and then even you will bow your knee to Him. Remember that I said this! I hope by then you and I will be brother and sister in Christ. You can have a relationship with Him, too. No one is beyond His love. You are just another lost sheep like I was. He came to save you, too.
It wasn't me that said 200yrs. As for Jesus, well whilst you're waiting, more & more of us will get on with our lives in the here & now; growing along our own spiritual path without anyone telling us what to think, or not bothering, as we choose; keeping our spiritual beliefs or lack thereof out of material concerns & being better off for it.
"Lost sheep"? By christian standards I'm 1 of the goats & heading into being a horny old 1 @ that
I saved myself thanx!



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