Democrats stifle Republican health care plans, page 3

reply to post by nixie_nox

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I still don't get how the media ignoring any introduced Republican health care bills is the Republicans fault.


reply to post by uaocteaou

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Haven't looked at the submittal dates for any of the Republican health care bills compared to H.R. 3200 have you? Didn't think so.

reply to post by Mak Manto

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What did we discuss in the other thread, Jdub?

We didn't discuss ANYTHING. I pointed out your flawed thinking and you refused to answer my questions. You "fled the thread" (2 different ones) when it became undeniable.

If you're going to put the news networks as the MSM, do one thing:

ADD FOX NEWS!

Once again, you miss the point!

FOX does cover the Republican alternatives!

The ones I listed are the MSM who refuse to cite them, or DENY they exist!

You STILL don't get it. do you?

Deny ignorance!

jw

reply to post by nixie_nox

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To answer your question, I don't watch the news. I watch local in the morning to see if anything catastrophic happened overnight and that is it. Somtimes CNN to watch a vote.

Then, you wouldn't know what FOX, or Beck or Hannity said or didn't say, would you?

They have a powerful outlet in Fox. It wasn't utilized.

How would you know. You "don't watch the news."

They have a powerful spokesperson in Palin. Controversial, but people listen. She wasn't utilized.

Again, how would you know? Because "local or CNN" didn't tell you?

Last I heard, Palin was not a spokesperson for either the House or Senate delegations of ANY party. She has her own priorities and agenda.

They have a spokesperson in Steele. Who I listen to quite frequently.I like him personally though he gets more weenie-ish all the time. He has never said a word.

Actually, he DID! He and Scott Simon of NPR went 'round and 'round about just this issue on "Morning Edition."

You need to broaden your perspective if you want a broader view of what people are saying and doing. You might be surprised.

I check places like Slate, Salon, the NYT, HuffPo and kos often, just to see what's up. Along with AFP, Reuters, and the Guardian and Telegraph.

Found Camille Paglia's scathing rebuke of the Obamacare "debacle." (her word, not mine).

Even Arianna Huffington and Camille Paglia talk about the one-sided coverage. THEY know, and discuss, the presence of and denial of alternatives to Obamacare. (Ever listen to "Left, Right and Center?" Arianna is the "left" representative in the weekly roundtable.))

Hell they could even use Beck, Rush, or Hannity.

How would you, and your brethren, know they don't? THEY DO!

If people don't know about it, they are not going to look for something they don't even know is there.

If they CHOOSE not to know, it doesn't matter where the message is or who it's coming from.

jw

[edit on 13-9-2009 by jdub297]

reply to post by uaocteaou

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OK. Thanks for your astute observations.

The GOP has "introduced" NOTHING ... .

To assert in any way that the GOP is doing anything FOR health insurance reform is simply dishonest.

To deny the obvious is proof enough of the value of your "contributions."

Deny Ignorance.

jw

reply to post by marg6043

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I do not like insurance. I've made that explicitly clear across ATS and elsewhere.

I do not like government intervention in my life. I've made that clear, as well.

I believe the only true reform will ELIMINATE insurance and government from our basic and preventive healthcare.

Insurance and government should have a role in catastrophic injury and illness.

ANY plan that leaves a consumer in charge of who proivdes basic care and ay what price is better than having a third-party or single payor.

When someone else pays the bills, they INTERFERE with the basic transaction between the provider and the consumer.

Once the provider starts looking for someone else to pay (government or insurance), the consumer loses control of the transaction.

Can I be any clearer than that?

On Topic: The alternatives proposed by the GOP, but quashed or ignored by the left, GIVE more power to the consumer!

What is wrong with that?

jw

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by nixie_nox

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I still don't get how the media ignoring any introduced Republican health care bills is the Republicans fault.

They have had plenty of opportunities but haven't take them.


Here is my question, have these options been mentioned anywhere on ATS, either in a thread or as a post?

Can someone show me please?

reply to post by jdub297

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Hahahaha nice try.


I watch Fox for entertainment, not news.


I wouldn't even begin to use them as a news source. My family are avid GOP members, and have yet to bring anything important to the table other then negative banter.


I don't avoid the television all together.

And lets not forget the internet, or the newspapers. There is more then one way to skin a cat and I have yet to see it.

And who said you have to be a "spokesperson" to play one for the team? So she can spew information about her daughter and how they are gonna kill her but she can't likewise bring up the bills they have to offer?

reply to post by nixie_nox

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Up until the last month, no they were not. I wasn't aware of them myself until about a month or so ago when I started going through H.R. 3200 for the thread here. It was about the same time that I became aware that there were bills that had been submitted by Republicans.

So again I ask, how is it the Republicans fault that the media ignored their bills, their press releases, and the press conference, and gave the tiniest of mentions if any at all?

reply to post by jdub297

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CNN does, and don't say I'm lying.

CNN portrays both liberal and conservative attitudes.

reply to post by Jenna

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ATS members are decent at finding information. I can always count on ATS to come up with the most recent news. If this is just coming out now, on this thread, then the news was well hidden from all. I just think that if the GOP really wanted people to read their bills, they would of made more of an effort to let people know. No one is stopping them from airing commercials or taking out full page ads in the paper.

I think we are gonna just have to agree to disagree on that. *smiles*

What I take issue with is the thread starter jumping out of the gate with fists swinging, accussing people of being biased and only listening to the MSM, when no one on ats has heard about it till now. It is like accussing someone of not reading the the tiny for wanted ad in the classified section of the paper.

reply to post by nixie_nox

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Here is my question, have these options been mentioned anywhere on ATS, either in a thread or as a post?

Can someone show me please?

Sure.

Here's what I've posted, in one form or anotherthis is the raw doc, no hot links, et c.)

GOP Healthcare proposals
The current Democrat/Liberal /Progressive disinformation is one of their biggest complaints about the GOP: “The Republicans complain about the Democrats’ health care proposals, but they don’t offer any plan of their own!”

We’ve seen that one here over and over again, up to this day.

This, of course, ignores the Reform Plan of the “Republican Health Care Solutions Group” presented in May:
The House Republican Health Care Solutions Group has been working for months on a plan, listening to the American people, talking to doctors and patients, collecting input,and studying and debating ideas. This process has resulted in the broad outline of a health care reform plan that the solutions group hopes will receive bipartisan support.

Link here: www.cbsnews.com...

There are actually THREE (3) Republican proposals “on the table” in Congress, and being ignored by Democrats and liberal “reform advocates.” The three Republican bills total almost 400 pages and have been on the table since May and June.
In May, Republicans in the House and the Senate formed a bicameral coalition to produce the130-page “Patients Choice Act of 2009.”

In June, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) introduced the “Health Care Freedom Plan,” a 41-page proposal.

And in July, the Republican Study Committee, under the leadership of Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga.), introduced H.R. 3400, the “Empowering Patients First Act,” a 130-page plan, centered around four main principles:
Access to Coverage for All Americans
The Empowering Patients First Act makes the purchase of health care financially feasible for all Americans, covers pre-existing conditions, protects employer-sponsored insurance, and shines light on existing health care plans.
Coverage is Truly Owned by the Patient
This legislation grants greater choice and portability to the patient, and also gives employers more flexibility in the benefits offered. It also expands the individual market by creating several pooling mechanisms.
Improve the Health Care Delivery Structure
Physicians know the best care for their patient. That's why this legislation establishes doctor-led quality measures, ensuring that you get the quality care you need. It also reimburses physicians to ensure the stability of your care, and encourages healthier lifestyles by allowing employers to offer discounts for healthy habits through wellness and prevention programs.
Rein in Out-of-Control Costs
A key concern in positive reform is reining in out-of control costs. This legislation does this by reforming the medical liability system. Also, the cost of the plan is completely offset through decreasing defensive medicine, savings from health care efficiencies, sifting out waste, fraud and abuse, plus an annual one-percent non defense discretionary spending step down.

Link here: rsc.tomprice.house.gov...
Summary: rsc.tomprice.house.gov...


“Republicans Have Offered Three Alternative Health Care Reform Bills”
cnsnews.com...


Rather than the 19 page summary so many scoffed at, Rep. Paul Ryan (R.-WI) introduced H.R. 2520, The Patient’s Choice Act, on May 20 of this year. It was immediately referred to the House Ways and Means Committee, along with others, where it languishes to this day.

Link to H.R. 2520 here: www.govtrack.us...
Summary: spectator.org...

Title 1 focuses on incentives for preventative medicine and healthier lifestyles. Title 2 allows for state based health care exchanges and federal incentives for multiple states to band together, crossing state lines, to offer more choices. And the state based exchanges would be charged with providing group rates to people across a multitude of circumstances to reduce rates.

Title 4 provides for supplemental health care assistance to low income families, along with both tax credits and advancement vouchers so they can purchase health insurance through these group plans. Limits are also placed on excessive premium charges by private insurance companies.

Why won’t this ever see the light of day?

Among other reasons, because Titles 4 and 5 also include fiscally responsible proposals which too many despise. First, they mandate means testing for the direct government assistance in the form of grants and advancements which would cover every American citizen who can truly not afford health insurance. Also, Title 6 has a provision to encourage the reform and limitation of frivolous lawsuits which, along with other waste and abuse, drives up costs across the board.

Rep. John Shadegg (R.-AZ) sponsored H.R. 3217, “The Health Care Choice Act” and HR 3218, “Improving Health Care For All Americans Act” Along with several other conservative members of the House.

Links here: www.govtrack.us...
www.govtrack.us...
H.R. 3217 would amend the Public Health Service Act to provide for cooperative governing of individual health insurance coverage offered in interstate commerce.
H.R. 3218 would provide a refundable tax credit for medical costs, to expand access to health insurance coverage through individual membership associations (IMAs), and to assist in the establishment of high risk pools.

Sen. Jim DeMint (R.-SC) introduced S.1324, “The Health Care Freedom Act.”
"All Americans should have a health insurance plan that they can afford, own, and keep – that government can never take over or take away. No American should be forced into a government-run system that limits their choices and rations their care.” - Sen. Jim DeMint

The Health Care Freedom Plan would allow every American access to health insurance and according to a study by the Heritage Foundation, would cover 22.4 million currently uninsured Americans within the five years.

The Health Care Freedom Plan:
Protects the right of Americans to keep their employer-based plan if they so choose.
Provides Americans without employer-based health insurance with vouchers of $2000 for individuals and $5000 for families to purchase health insurance.
Allows Americans with Health Savings Accounts (HSAs) to use their HSA funds to pay for insurance premiums, encouraging employers to contribute to their employees’ HSAs.
Creates a national market for health insurance by allowing individuals to purchase health insurance plans in any state.
Provides block grants to states to develop innovative models that ensure affordable health insurance coverage for Americans with pre-existing health conditions.
Reduces predatory and frivolous malpractice lawsuits against physicians and hospitals.
Assures that every health care consumer has access to price information prior to treatment so they can make informed decisio about their care.
Repeals financial bailouts (TARP) to fund health care vouchers.

Link here: www.govtrack.us...

Of course, no one remembers that President Bush initiated a healthcare reform plan that never saw the light of day, thanks to Democrats in Congress.

“The President's plan includes two parts: reforming the tax code with a standard deduction for health insurance so all Americans get the same tax breaks for health insurance and helping states make affordable private health insurance available to their citizens.”
Link: healthcare.gop.com...)

None of these, of course, will come to an open vote and likely never even be read by the public. But you should know that one of the biggest lies being foisted off on you by supporters of Obamacare is that Republicans are unwilling to get involved in a better solution. They already have. But nobody is listening or talking about it, either in the majority or the lion’s share of the media.

jw

reply to post by nixie_nox

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So if it doesn't show up here it never happened? Seems a bit short-sighted, but ok.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by jdub297

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Hahahaha nice try. And lets not forget the internet, or the newspapers. There is more then one way to skin a cat and I have yet to see it.

OK. How 'bout Huffington Post May 20:www.huffingtonpost.com...

and June 3:www.huffingtonpost.com...

Or WSJ, May 20:online.wsj.com...

or CNSNEWS:www.cnsnews.com...

or even the Dems thremselves(!?!):www.house.gov...

These are just the first few from a simple search. Doesn't even include blogs and other press repeating others' reports.

You could've found these if you bothered to look.

What hypocrisy.

Deny ignorance.
jw

reply to post by nixie_nox

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I should of specified, I listen to radio mostly. Or read the paper, or internet sites. I am old school.

Then you've heard or read the NPR coverage!

Just kidding. Even if you heard it, you wouldn't listen.

For those who want to know about Obama's lies in this regard:

"GOP Bills Largely Absent From Health Care Debate"
www.npr.org...

With only a few exceptions, this year's health overhaul debate has been pretty much an all-Democrats affair. That's left a lot of Republicans on Capitol Hill steaming. Republicans have written health bills, and they do generally agree with Democrats on some things, such as curbing insurance companies' ability to exclude people because of pre-existing health conditions. However, none of the Republican proposals include an insurance mandate, and many analysts say most of the Republican bills simply wouldn't do all that much to change the situation.

Some Republicans say their depiction in the health care debate has been unfair. In particular, comments such as what Obama said in his Labor Day speech at an AFL-CIO picnic in Cincinnati really set off some Republicans. After running down a list of what he called lies about Democratic bills in Congress, Obama said he had a question for those making those claims:

"What's your answer? What's your solution?" he asked the cheering crowd. "And you know what? They don't have one."

Of course, you won't read this story. There is an audio link if you want to listen.

As for the argument that this is an "unfunded credit" (made elsewhere, not by you), or subsidy for the ins. cos., the sponsors say otherwise:

In the Senate, North Carolina Republican Richard Burr was one of the first to offer a comprehensive alternative to what the Democrats are pushing. His bill includes no new taxes and no mandates. But it would call for major changes to private insurance rules and the Medicaid program for the poor. Burr says he thinks there's still room for common ground between the parties.

"There's an architecture for bills that could pass literally in a week, that deal with insurance reform, that deal with some type of malpractice limitations, that deal with the ability to bring health care costs down," Burr says.

Enjoy the show.

Consider the alternatives.

jw

reply to post by buddhasystem

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I see the public option as one of few ways to try and contain rising costs.

If you've read any of the alternatives, youd see that the Republican plans attempt to take goernment AND insurance out of the equation and give more control to the patient.

You seem to think that there are only 2 options: insurance or government.

There aren't.

REAL reform will give the patient a greater say in WHO provides his care, HOW MUCH they are paid, and WHO PAYS.

As long as someone else makes the decision for you, or pays the bills for you, THEY control your care, not you.

When "health care reform" puts the patient in charge, the system will be forced to cater to him, rather than some actuary, adjuster or bureaucrat!

Think for yourself. It's not just either/or. You can make the choice yourself, if you want to.

Deny ignorance.

jw

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