I'd only heard about one from the House, but two from the Senate. can't remember the bill numbers off the top of my head though. It amazes me how
many times people say Republicans haven't proposed anything to fix health care when it's obvious they have.
Democrats stifle Republican health care plans, page 1
privacy
Topic started on 12-9-2009 @ 04:56 PM by jdub297
www.washingtonexaminer.com...
ex] Republicans have authored a number of health care bills -- serious legislation addressing portability, pre-existing conditions, cost and other issues that most trouble American consumers -- and hardly anyone has noticed.
Republicans don't really blame Nancy Pelosi. The speaker is as partisan a Democrat as they come, and no one is surprised that she has used her power to stifle Republican efforts. But they do blame the Obama administration. "The White House, in spite of saying they look forward to meeting with anybody who wants to solve these challenges, has rebuffed us at every turn," Price says.
Of course the MSM, Barack Obama, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi would tell you otherwise, but there are several legitimate alternative proposals for Health Care Reform and Insurance Reform in Congress. The problem is, you see, they were sponsored by Republicans.
Want to look for yourself?
I doubt it, because you haven’t read HR 3200, “Obamacare,” either. You just know that since ABC,CBS, NBC, CNN and other of the MSM say it’s good for you, then it MUST be the only answer. The RIGHT answer.
Here’s a list from the House (there’s others in the Senate, too, if you care):
Wake up; smell the roses. Or, read the proposals. Think for yourselves before you jump to the MSM’s conclusion.
Deny ignorance.
jw
[edit on 12-9-2009 by jdub297]
Democrats stifle Republican health care plans
www.washingtonexaminer.com...
ex] Republicans have authored a number of health care bills -- serious legislation addressing portability, pre-existing conditions, cost and other issues that most trouble American consumers -- and hardly anyone has noticed.
Republicans don't really blame Nancy Pelosi. The speaker is as partisan a Democrat as they come, and no one is surprised that she has used her power to stifle Republican efforts. But they do blame the Obama administration. "The White House, in spite of saying they look forward to meeting with anybody who wants to solve these challenges, has rebuffed us at every turn," Price says.
Of course the MSM, Barack Obama, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi would tell you otherwise, but there are several legitimate alternative proposals for Health Care Reform and Insurance Reform in Congress. The problem is, you see, they were sponsored by Republicans.
Rep. Tom Price, the Georgia Republican who heads the House GOP Study Committee, came to President Obama's speech Wednesday night itching to make a point. Price, who also happens to be an orthopedic surgeon, has often heard the president accuse Republicans of criticizing Democratic health care proposals while having no plans of their own. He expected Obama to do the same Wednesday night.
"We knew the president would at some point say something like, 'and the other side has no ideas,' " Price says. So Price and his Republican colleagues brought with them copies of the more than 30 health care reform bills they have proposed in the House this year.
Obama didn't directly accuse Republicans of not having a plan. But he did say he would welcome "serious" health care proposals. "My door is always open," Obama said.
Want to look for yourself?
I doubt it, because you haven’t read HR 3200, “Obamacare,” either. You just know that since ABC,CBS, NBC, CNN and other of the MSM say it’s good for you, then it MUST be the only answer. The RIGHT answer.
Here’s a list from the House (there’s others in the Senate, too, if you care):
H.R. 77; H.R. 109; H.R. 198; H.R. 270; H.R. 321; H.R. 464; H.R. 502; H.R. 544; H.R. 917; H.R. 1086; H.R. 1118; H.R. 1441; H.R. 1458; H.R. 1468; H.R. 1658; H.R. 1891; H.R. 2520; H.R. 2607; H.R. 2692; H.R. 2784; H.R. 2785; H.R. 2786; H.R. 2787; H.R. 3141; H.R. 3217; H.R. 3218; H.R. 3356; H.R. 3372; H.R. 3400; H.R. 3438; H.R. 3454; and H.R. 3478.
Wake up; smell the roses. Or, read the proposals. Think for yourselves before you jump to the MSM’s conclusion.
Deny ignorance.
jw
[edit on 12-9-2009 by jdub297]
reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 05:18 PM by Jenna
reply to post by JBA2848
Which one did you read? I've only read one of them so far and am working my way through a second one, and what I've read has been much more involved than just tax credits.
Which one did you read? I've only read one of them so far and am working my way through a second one, and what I've read has been much more involved than just tax credits.
reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 05:19 PM by jdub297
reply to post by Jenna
I've got a list of the best from BOTH houses.
GOP Healthcare proposals
The current Democrat/Liberal /Progressive disinformation is one of their biggest complaints about the GOP: “The Republicans complain about the Democrats’ health care proposals, but they don’t offer any plan of their own!”
We’ve seen that one here over and over again, up to this day.
This, of course, ignores the Reform Plan of the “Republican Health Care Solutions Group” presented in May:
Link here: www.cbsnews.com...
There are several Republican proposals “on the table” in Congress, and being ignored by Democrats and liberal “reform advocates.”
The THREE MOST POPULAR Republican bills total less than 400 pages and have been on the table since May and June.
In May, Republicans in the House and the Senate formed a bicameral coalition to produce the130-page “Patients Choice Act of 2009.”
In June, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) introduced the “Health Care Freedom Plan,” a 41-page proposal.
And in July, the Republican Study Committee, under the leadership of Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga.), introduced H.R. 3400, the “Empowering Patients First Act,” a 130-page plan, centered around four main principles:
Access to Coverage for All Americans
Link here: rsc.tomprice.house.gov...
Summary: rsc.tomprice.house.gov...
cnsnews.com...
Rather than the 19 page summary so many scoffed at, Rep. Paul Ryan (R.-WI) introduced H.R. 2520, The Patient’s Choice Act, on May 20 of this year. It was immediately referred to the House Ways and Means Committee, along with others, where it languishes to this day.
Link to H.R. 2520 here: www.govtrack.us...
Summary: spectator.org...
Title 1 focuses on incentives for preventative medicine and healthier lifestyles. Title 2 allows for state based health care exchanges and federal incentives for multiple states to band together, crossing state lines, to offer more choices. And the state based exchanges would be charged with providing group rates to people across a multitude of circumstances to reduce rates.
Title 4 provides for supplemental health care assistance to low income families, along with both tax credits and advancement vouchers so they can purchase health insurance through these group plans. Limits are also placed on excessive premium charges by private insurance companies.
Why won’t this ever see the light of day?
Among other reasons, because Titles 4 and 5 also include fiscally responsible proposals which too many despise. First, they mandate means testing for the direct government assistance in the form of grants and advancements which would cover every American citizen who can truly not afford health insurance. Also, Title 6 has a provision to encourage the reform and limitation of frivolous lawsuits which, along with other waste and abuse, drives up costs across the board.
Rep. John Shadegg (R.-AZ) sponsored H.R. 3217, “The Health Care Choice Act” and HR 3218, “Improving Health Care For All Americans Act” Along with several other conservative members of the House.
Links here: www.govtrack.us...
www.govtrack.us...
H.R. 3217 would amend the Public Health Service Act to provide for cooperative governing of individual health insurance coverage offered in interstate commerce.
H.R. 3218 would provide a refundable tax credit for medical costs, to expand access to health insurance coverage through individual membership associations (IMAs), and to assist in the establishment of high risk pools.
Sen. Jim DeMint (R.-SC) introduced S.1324, “The Health Care Freedom Act.”
The Health Care Freedom Plan would allow every American access to health insurance and according to a study by the Heritage Foundation, would cover 22.4 million currently uninsured Americans within the five years.
The Health Care Freedom Plan:
Protects the right of Americans to keep their employer-based plan if they so choose.
Provides Americans without employer-based health insurance with vouchers of $2000 for individuals and $5000 for families to purchase health insurance.
Allows Americans with Health Savings Accounts (HSAs) to use their HSA funds to pay for insurance premiums, encouraging employers to contribute to their employees’ HSAs.
Creates a national market for health insurance by allowing individuals to purchase health insurance plans in any state.
Provides block grants to states to develop innovative models that ensure affordable health insurance coverage for Americans with pre-existing health conditions.
Reduces predatory and frivolous malpractice lawsuits against physicians and hospitals.
Assures that every health care consumer has access to price information prior to treatment so they can make informed decisio about their care.
Repeals financial bailouts (TARP) to fund health care vouchers.
Link here: www.govtrack.us...
Of course, no one remembers that President Bush initiated a healthcare reform plan that never saw the light of day, thanks to Democrats in Congress.
“The President's plan includes two parts: reforming the tax code with a standard deduction for health insurance so all Americans get the same tax breaks for health insurance and helping states make affordable private health insurance available to their citizens.”
Link: healthcare.gop.com...)
Guess who bottled up THIS reform bill.
Sen. T. Kennedy (D - Mass.)
None of these, of course, will come to an open vote and likely never even be read by the public. But you should know that one of the biggest lies being foisted off on you by supporters of Obamacare is that Republicans are unwilling to get involved in a better solution. They already have. But nobody is listening or talking about it, either in the majority or the lion’s share of the media.
deny ignorance
jw
I've got a list of the best from BOTH houses.
GOP Healthcare proposals
The current Democrat/Liberal /Progressive disinformation is one of their biggest complaints about the GOP: “The Republicans complain about the Democrats’ health care proposals, but they don’t offer any plan of their own!”
We’ve seen that one here over and over again, up to this day.
This, of course, ignores the Reform Plan of the “Republican Health Care Solutions Group” presented in May:
The House Republican Health Care Solutions Group has been working for months on a plan, listening to the American people, talking to doctors and patients, collecting input,and studying and debating ideas. This process has resulted in the broad outline of a health care reform plan that the solutions group hopes will receive bipartisan support.
Link here: www.cbsnews.com...
There are several Republican proposals “on the table” in Congress, and being ignored by Democrats and liberal “reform advocates.”
The THREE MOST POPULAR Republican bills total less than 400 pages and have been on the table since May and June.
In May, Republicans in the House and the Senate formed a bicameral coalition to produce the130-page “Patients Choice Act of 2009.”
In June, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) introduced the “Health Care Freedom Plan,” a 41-page proposal.
And in July, the Republican Study Committee, under the leadership of Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga.), introduced H.R. 3400, the “Empowering Patients First Act,” a 130-page plan, centered around four main principles:
Access to Coverage for All Americans
Link here: rsc.tomprice.house.gov...
Summary: rsc.tomprice.house.gov...
“Republicans Have Offered Alternative Health Care Reform Bills”
cnsnews.com...
Rather than the 19 page summary so many scoffed at, Rep. Paul Ryan (R.-WI) introduced H.R. 2520, The Patient’s Choice Act, on May 20 of this year. It was immediately referred to the House Ways and Means Committee, along with others, where it languishes to this day.
Link to H.R. 2520 here: www.govtrack.us...
Summary: spectator.org...
Title 1 focuses on incentives for preventative medicine and healthier lifestyles. Title 2 allows for state based health care exchanges and federal incentives for multiple states to band together, crossing state lines, to offer more choices. And the state based exchanges would be charged with providing group rates to people across a multitude of circumstances to reduce rates.
Title 4 provides for supplemental health care assistance to low income families, along with both tax credits and advancement vouchers so they can purchase health insurance through these group plans. Limits are also placed on excessive premium charges by private insurance companies.
Why won’t this ever see the light of day?
Among other reasons, because Titles 4 and 5 also include fiscally responsible proposals which too many despise. First, they mandate means testing for the direct government assistance in the form of grants and advancements which would cover every American citizen who can truly not afford health insurance. Also, Title 6 has a provision to encourage the reform and limitation of frivolous lawsuits which, along with other waste and abuse, drives up costs across the board.
Rep. John Shadegg (R.-AZ) sponsored H.R. 3217, “The Health Care Choice Act” and HR 3218, “Improving Health Care For All Americans Act” Along with several other conservative members of the House.
Links here: www.govtrack.us...
www.govtrack.us...
H.R. 3217 would amend the Public Health Service Act to provide for cooperative governing of individual health insurance coverage offered in interstate commerce.
H.R. 3218 would provide a refundable tax credit for medical costs, to expand access to health insurance coverage through individual membership associations (IMAs), and to assist in the establishment of high risk pools.
Sen. Jim DeMint (R.-SC) introduced S.1324, “The Health Care Freedom Act.”
"All Americans should have a health insurance plan that they can afford, own, and keep – that government can never take over or take away. No American should be forced into a government-run system that limits their choices and rations their care.”- Sen. Jim DeMint
The Health Care Freedom Plan would allow every American access to health insurance and according to a study by the Heritage Foundation, would cover 22.4 million currently uninsured Americans within the five years.
The Health Care Freedom Plan:
Protects the right of Americans to keep their employer-based plan if they so choose.
Provides Americans without employer-based health insurance with vouchers of $2000 for individuals and $5000 for families to purchase health insurance.
Allows Americans with Health Savings Accounts (HSAs) to use their HSA funds to pay for insurance premiums, encouraging employers to contribute to their employees’ HSAs.
Creates a national market for health insurance by allowing individuals to purchase health insurance plans in any state.
Provides block grants to states to develop innovative models that ensure affordable health insurance coverage for Americans with pre-existing health conditions.
Reduces predatory and frivolous malpractice lawsuits against physicians and hospitals.
Assures that every health care consumer has access to price information prior to treatment so they can make informed decisio about their care.
Repeals financial bailouts (TARP) to fund health care vouchers.
Link here: www.govtrack.us...
Of course, no one remembers that President Bush initiated a healthcare reform plan that never saw the light of day, thanks to Democrats in Congress.
“The President's plan includes two parts: reforming the tax code with a standard deduction for health insurance so all Americans get the same tax breaks for health insurance and helping states make affordable private health insurance available to their citizens.”
Link: healthcare.gop.com...)
Guess who bottled up THIS reform bill.
Sen. T. Kennedy (D - Mass.)
None of these, of course, will come to an open vote and likely never even be read by the public. But you should know that one of the biggest lies being foisted off on you by supporters of Obamacare is that Republicans are unwilling to get involved in a better solution. They already have. But nobody is listening or talking about it, either in the majority or the lion’s share of the media.
deny ignorance
jw
reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 05:32 PM by jdub297
reply to post by JBA2848
If you can't think for yourself, or understand what you read, I'll try to help.
If it costs your boss less money to buy your health insurance, he's more likely to do it. It's basically letting your boss buy YOUR insurance with money he would've otherwise sent to the IRS.
Got any problem with that?
If you can spend your own money to pick your own doctors, you don't have to send it to the IRS either.
Got a problem managing your own finances? Managing your own choice of health care?
This is absolutely meaningless without more specifics. "Give?" How? "Money?" Whose? How much? For what? " ... in different programs?" Which ones? How are they different from status quo?
You will not answer these questions because you can't.
You did not "read" anything. You're repeating something you heard or thought would sound really smart.
Prove me wrong.
Give specific legislation and language and interpret it for us before you spout gibberish or ad hominem in response.
Deny Ignorance!
jw
I did read one of the republicans proposals for health care.
...
How does any of that fix health care.
If you can't think for yourself, or understand what you read, I'll try to help.
it basicly said give business tax credits for health care ...
If it costs your boss less money to buy your health insurance, he's more likely to do it. It's basically letting your boss buy YOUR insurance with money he would've otherwise sent to the IRS.
Got any problem with that?
and individuals tax right offs for health care ...
If you can spend your own money to pick your own doctors, you don't have to send it to the IRS either.
Got a problem managing your own finances? Managing your own choice of health care?
And on top of that they wanted to give money to the insurance companies in different programs ...
This is absolutely meaningless without more specifics. "Give?" How? "Money?" Whose? How much? For what? " ... in different programs?" Which ones? How are they different from status quo?
You will not answer these questions because you can't.
You did not "read" anything. You're repeating something you heard or thought would sound really smart.
Prove me wrong.
Give specific legislation and language and interpret it for us before you spout gibberish or ad hominem in response.
Deny Ignorance!
jw
reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 05:38 PM by jdub297
reply to post by Jenna
I knew YOU'd read before jumping to conclusions.
Regard;ess of their substance or merits, they establish at least ONE
very important part of this debate:
Obama and the left ARE LYING when they say there are no proposals, no alternatives, being put forward by their opposition!
s4u
jw
what I've read has been much more involved than just tax credits
I knew YOU'd read before jumping to conclusions.
Regard;ess of their substance or merits, they establish at least ONE
very important part of this debate:
Obama and the left ARE LYING when they say there are no proposals, no alternatives, being put forward by their opposition!
s4u
jw
reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 06:04 PM by JBA2848
reply to post by jdub297
www.cbsnews.com...
For your information I am a boss. So I don't think I need you to explain it to me.
This is a tax right off.
Another tax credit.
This one is a subsidy to the isurance companies witch I don't think need any more money.
About the only good part of this plan.
This limits you from being able to sue some one for harming you and I don't want to give up my rights to a doctor or a insurance company. I as a business owner have liability insurance and nobdy has ever claimed on my policy becuase of me harming some one or harming personal property of anyone.
Another good part of this plan.
Another tax credit.
Another Subsidy to a insurance program.
So even this one from CBS is worthless in my book. And besides giving out tax right offs redits and giving subsidies to insurance companies. There is nothing about how they will pay for it.
www.cbsnews.com...
For your information I am a boss. So I don't think I need you to explain it to me.
To lower the costs of health care, the Republican plan:
• Brings greater fairness to the tax code by extending tax savings to those who currently do not have employer-provided insurance but purchase health insurance on their own. This provision would provide an “above the line” deduction that is equal to the cost of an individual’s or family’s insurance premiums.
This is a tax right off.
• Provides immediate substantial financial assistance, through new refundable and advanceable tax credits, to low- and modest-income Americans.
Another tax credit.
• Recognizes that many Americans who have not yet hit retirement age but may be changing jobs or have lost a job often face higher health care costs. To help those aged 55 to 64, the plan increases support for pre- and early-retirees with low- and modest-incomes.
This one is a subsidy to the isurance companies witch I don't think need any more money.
• Recognizes that one of the largest obstacles for many small businesses when it comes to retaining current employees or creating new jobs is the cost of health insurance. The plan allows states, small businesses, associations, and other organizations to band together and offer health insurance at lower costs.
About the only good part of this plan.
• Implements comprehensive medical liability reform that will reduce costly, unnecessary defensive medicine practiced by doctors trying to protect themselves from overzealous trial lawyers.
This limits you from being able to sue some one for harming you and I don't want to give up my rights to a doctor or a insurance company. I as a business owner have liability insurance and nobdy has ever claimed on my policy becuase of me harming some one or harming personal property of anyone.
• Provides Medicare and Medicaid with additional authority and resources to stop waste, fraud, and abuse that costs taxpayers billions of dollars every year.
Another good part of this plan.
• Creates incentives to save now for future and long-term health care needs by improving health savings accounts and flexible spending arrangements as well as creating new tax benefits to offset the cost of long-term care premiums.
Another tax credit.
• Gives financial help to caregivers who provide in-home care for a loved one.
Another Subsidy to a insurance program.
So even this one from CBS is worthless in my book. And besides giving out tax right offs redits and giving subsidies to insurance companies. There is nothing about how they will pay for it.
reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 06:11 PM by Jenna
reply to post by jdub297
Thanks! I try to.
I've read through S. 1324 and am going through S. 1099 right now for a blog I started. H.R. 3400 is next on my list, but it seems I'll have a bunch more to go through after that one. On the bright side, once I finish them I'll be able to say with a fair amount of certainty that I'll have read more proposed legislation than many members of Congress.
Edit: Left out the word more. Oops!
[edit on 12-9-2009 by Jenna]
I knew YOU'd read before jumping to conclusions.
Thanks! I try to.
I've read through S. 1324 and am going through S. 1099 right now for a blog I started. H.R. 3400 is next on my list, but it seems I'll have a bunch more to go through after that one. On the bright side, once I finish them I'll be able to say with a fair amount of certainty that I'll have read more proposed legislation than many members of Congress.
Edit: Left out the word more. Oops!
[edit on 12-9-2009 by Jenna]
reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 07:13 PM by jdub297
Originally posted by JBA2848
reply to post by jdub297
You know, "Boss," if you could read, you'd know that you've misread everything you cut-and-pasted. Now you've shown everyone on ATS how well you can think for yourself.
(Not to mention what you've proven of your credibility and veracity.)
Wrong! Apparently, you do!
Look, "boss," you either did not read the CBS story, or you do not understand it.
First, it's a "write off," and EVERY "boss" knows that because they would need to pay taxes on things they can't "write off" their gross income.
The write-off in question is for INDIVIDUALS, not business or ins. cos.
Wrong again, boss!
Again, this is for INDIVIDUALS! And, it's a CREDIT, not a write off! A credit is dollar-for-dollar reduction of your taxes. A write off reduces the amount you pay taxes on.
Didn't you know that, boss?
Don't you get tired of being so wrong?
No, it is for "those (people) aged 55 to 64." It is another reduction in the cost of living for pre-retirement folks who pay medical expenses.
Has nothing to do with ins. cos.
THIS one helps insurance companies! Ever heard of "insurance exchanges" or the "co-ops" everyone is talking about? This allows people to get together to form "groups" to (guess what?) BUY INSURANCE!
Ever heard of "group insurance," boss? This creates more groups for the insurance cos. to sell policies to!
(Your deductive powers are amazing!)
No, it LIMITS what you can get and how you get it. Since you have insurance, then you know how much it costs even if you've never hurt anyone. Doctors pay hundreds of times more than you. (I know what E & O insurance costs.)
You can still sue; but, you won't be able to use "junk science" or frivolous claims. Dozens of states have already done this! If you're gonna combine all the states for healthcare, why not combine them for liability, too?
BUT, why do you need a "plan" to do it?
Why doesn't Obamacare say this? Why isn't this simple language in the HR 3200 everyone is crying over?
(A"promise" on TV is not legislation, it is pandering.)
Why doesn't Obama do it RIGHT NOW? If we all agree that there's fraud and waste, why doesn't the President of the United States do something about it?
Well, there you go again! This is for people
(Tell you what. If you do not want any "write offs" or "tax credits," give them to ME! I don't want to pay a nickle more than I'm supposed to. If you don't want them I'll take 'em.)
What's wrong with keeping your own money, lowering your taxes, and buying your own health care at market prices?
Boss?
You really don't get it, do you? This is also for people, not insurance cos.!
When your mommy and daddy get old, and you have to help them around the house, wouldn't it be nice if you could lower your taxes or increase your income instead of hiring some stranger to do it for you? Or, maybe your brother or sister would want to, but can't afford it without a little "financial help."
Boss, most of this is just letting people keep their own money! It isn't giving government money to insurance cos. or even business. It's letting people use their money themselves.
I'm so glad "you're not the boss of me!"
Really? Even though you agree with some parts and just don't understand others?
You just don't get it, do you,"Boss."
Deny Ignorance!
jw.
reply to post by jdub297
You know, "Boss," if you could read, you'd know that you've misread everything you cut-and-pasted. Now you've shown everyone on ATS how well you can think for yourself.
(Not to mention what you've proven of your credibility and veracity.)
For your information I am a boss. So I don't think I need you to explain it to me.
"To lower the costs of health care, the Republican plan ... Brings greater fairness to the tax code by extending tax savings to those who currently do not have employer-provided insurance ... ."
This is a tax right off.
Wrong! Apparently, you do!
Look, "boss," you either did not read the CBS story, or you do not understand it.
First, it's a "write off," and EVERY "boss" knows that because they would need to pay taxes on things they can't "write off" their gross income.
The write-off in question is for INDIVIDUALS, not business or ins. cos.
"Provides immediate substantial financial assistance, through new refundable and advanceable tax credits, to low- and modest-income Americans."
Another tax credit.
Wrong again, boss!
Again, this is for INDIVIDUALS! And, it's a CREDIT, not a write off! A credit is dollar-for-dollar reduction of your taxes. A write off reduces the amount you pay taxes on.
Didn't you know that, boss?
" To help those aged 55 to 64, the plan increases support for pre- and early-retirees with low- and modest-incomes."
This one is a subsidy to the isurance companies witch I don't think need any more money.
Don't you get tired of being so wrong?
No, it is for "those (people) aged 55 to 64." It is another reduction in the cost of living for pre-retirement folks who pay medical expenses.
Has nothing to do with ins. cos.
"The plan allows states, small businesses, associations, and other organizations to band together and offer health insurance at lower costs."How would you know?
About the only good part of this plan.
THIS one helps insurance companies! Ever heard of "insurance exchanges" or the "co-ops" everyone is talking about? This allows people to get together to form "groups" to (guess what?) BUY INSURANCE!
Ever heard of "group insurance," boss? This creates more groups for the insurance cos. to sell policies to!
(Your deductive powers are amazing!)
" Implements comprehensive medical liability reform that will reduce costly, unnecessary defensive medicine practiced by doctors trying to protect themselves from overzealous trial lawyers."
This limits you from being able to sue some one for harming you and I don't want to give up my rights to a doctor or a insurance company. I as a business owner have liability insurance and nobdy has ever claimed on my policy becuase of me harming some one or harming personal property of anyone.
No, it LIMITS what you can get and how you get it. Since you have insurance, then you know how much it costs even if you've never hurt anyone. Doctors pay hundreds of times more than you. (I know what E & O insurance costs.)
You can still sue; but, you won't be able to use "junk science" or frivolous claims. Dozens of states have already done this! If you're gonna combine all the states for healthcare, why not combine them for liability, too?
"Provides Medicare and Medicaid with additional authority and resources to stop waste, fraud, and abuse that costs taxpayers billions of dollars every year."
Another good part of this plan.
BUT, why do you need a "plan" to do it?
Why doesn't Obamacare say this? Why isn't this simple language in the HR 3200 everyone is crying over?
(A"promise" on TV is not legislation, it is pandering.)
Why doesn't Obama do it RIGHT NOW? If we all agree that there's fraud and waste, why doesn't the President of the United States do something about it?
" Creates incentives to save now for future and long-term health care needs by improving health savings accounts and flexible spending arrangements as well as creating new tax benefits to offset the cost of long-term care premiums."
Another tax credit.
Well, there you go again! This is for people
(Tell you what. If you do not want any "write offs" or "tax credits," give them to ME! I don't want to pay a nickle more than I'm supposed to. If you don't want them I'll take 'em.)
What's wrong with keeping your own money, lowering your taxes, and buying your own health care at market prices?
Boss?
"Gives financial help to caregivers who provide in-home care for a loved one."
Another Subsidy to a insurance program.
You really don't get it, do you? This is also for people, not insurance cos.!
When your mommy and daddy get old, and you have to help them around the house, wouldn't it be nice if you could lower your taxes or increase your income instead of hiring some stranger to do it for you? Or, maybe your brother or sister would want to, but can't afford it without a little "financial help."
There is nothing about how they will pay for it.
Boss, most of this is just letting people keep their own money! It isn't giving government money to insurance cos. or even business. It's letting people use their money themselves.
I'm so glad "you're not the boss of me!"
So even this one from CBS is worthless in my book.
Really? Even though you agree with some parts and just don't understand others?
You just don't get it, do you,"Boss."
Deny Ignorance!
jw.
reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 07:15 PM by jdub297
reply to post by Jenna
True that! Not to mention ATS members. S1324 is the easiest to implement, but it'll never see the light of day.
So sad.
jw
True that! Not to mention ATS members. S1324 is the easiest to implement, but it'll never see the light of day.
So sad.
jw
reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 07:54 PM by JBA2848
reply to post by jdub297
I looked at what you had to say and talking about way off you need to learn a little more befor you speak and last year I did do my own taxes yes corperate taxes. And I just find it interesting that you think i don't know what im looking at.
This is a unfunded tax credit to individuals who don't have employer provided insurance. Which gets added to the defict and is such a small amount they would never beable to afford insurance with it in the first place.
This is a unfunded tax credit to individuals who are low income and would be given out like stimulus checks and we know how much fraud and waste was done with the last checks sent out to people. People in prisons even got the stimulus checks .
This will be a subsidy to insurance companies becuase it will be another medicare advatage type program which is ran by a private company and not medicare.
This is a good program because I use a program through a payroll service in order to get wit other smal business to get a better deal. And a small business is anybody with less than 50 employees to the iurace companies.
This limits the amount of money you can sue for from suffering and limits the amount you can collect for damages as in how much it cost you for the rest of your life to be treated for injuries or how much you can sue for on the loss of income due from injuries. and if im not kistaken $200,000 was the cap they wanted on it.
You said "BUT, why do you need a "plan" to do it?" becuase all the politicians sitting in the house and senate have put in bills to protect there scams where do you think the millions given to politicians come from. Nancy Pelosi and her husband who sits on a board of directors for a pharmaceutical company even has done this crap but shes not the only one. And a new bill would make the others obsolete and stop it.
This is another unfunded tax credit or write off that would just add to the deficit.
Gives money to the care givers through a tax credit most likely and is still unfunded. And I still fill that the insurance companies have got enough money considering there profits have gone up 400% in the last 10 years. My income sure didn't go up that much what gives.
I looked at what you had to say and talking about way off you need to learn a little more befor you speak and last year I did do my own taxes yes corperate taxes. And I just find it interesting that you think i don't know what im looking at.
"To lower the costs of health care, the Republican plan ... Brings greater fairness to the tax code by extending tax savings to those who currently do not have employer-provided insurance ... ."
This is a unfunded tax credit to individuals who don't have employer provided insurance. Which gets added to the defict and is such a small amount they would never beable to afford insurance with it in the first place.
"Provides immediate substantial financial assistance, through new refundable and advanceable tax credits, to low- and modest-income Americans."
This is a unfunded tax credit to individuals who are low income and would be given out like stimulus checks and we know how much fraud and waste was done with the last checks sent out to people. People in prisons even got the stimulus checks .
" To help those aged 55 to 64, the plan increases support for pre- and early-retirees with low- and modest-incomes."
This will be a subsidy to insurance companies becuase it will be another medicare advatage type program which is ran by a private company and not medicare.
"The plan allows states, small businesses, associations, and other organizations to band together and offer health insurance at lower costs."
This is a good program because I use a program through a payroll service in order to get wit other smal business to get a better deal. And a small business is anybody with less than 50 employees to the iurace companies.
" Implements comprehensive medical liability reform that will reduce costly, unnecessary defensive medicine practiced by doctors trying to protect themselves from overzealous trial lawyers."
This limits the amount of money you can sue for from suffering and limits the amount you can collect for damages as in how much it cost you for the rest of your life to be treated for injuries or how much you can sue for on the loss of income due from injuries. and if im not kistaken $200,000 was the cap they wanted on it.
"Provides Medicare and Medicaid with additional authority and resources to stop waste, fraud, and abuse that costs taxpayers billions of dollars every year."
You said "BUT, why do you need a "plan" to do it?" becuase all the politicians sitting in the house and senate have put in bills to protect there scams where do you think the millions given to politicians come from. Nancy Pelosi and her husband who sits on a board of directors for a pharmaceutical company even has done this crap but shes not the only one. And a new bill would make the others obsolete and stop it.
" Creates incentives to save now for future and long-term health care needs by improving health savings accounts and flexible spending arrangements as well as creating new tax benefits to offset the cost of long-term care premiums."
This is another unfunded tax credit or write off that would just add to the deficit.
"Gives financial help to caregivers who provide in-home care for a loved one."
Gives money to the care givers through a tax credit most likely and is still unfunded. And I still fill that the insurance companies have got enough money considering there profits have gone up 400% in the last 10 years. My income sure didn't go up that much what gives.
reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 08:38 PM by jdub297
reply to post by nixie_nox
People whose minds are closed find it very easy to not hear or not see anything that disturbs their chosen reality.
What have ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, PBS, NPR, CNN, NYT, LAT published about these?
How do you "advertise" when the MSM don't subscribe?
I know about these. Breitbart and the WSJ know about these.
The foreign press knows!
Some media outlets HAVE publicized the alternatives. But you don't want to know that do you?
You choose NOT to know.
Which have you read?
I didn't think so.
Deny ignorance.
jw
[edit on 12-9-2009 by jdub297]
If the repubs were interested in advertising their bills they would of run around advertising their bills instead of making up nonsense about socialism and death panels.
People whose minds are closed find it very easy to not hear or not see anything that disturbs their chosen reality.
What have ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, PBS, NPR, CNN, NYT, LAT published about these?
How do you "advertise" when the MSM don't subscribe?
I know about these. Breitbart and the WSJ know about these.
The foreign press knows!
Some media outlets HAVE publicized the alternatives. But you don't want to know that do you?
You choose NOT to know.
Which have you read?
I didn't think so.
Deny ignorance.
jw
[edit on 12-9-2009 by jdub297]
reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 08:45 PM by jdub297
reply to post by JBA2848
You just don't understand, do you?
A "tax credit" does not have to be "funded" because it is a reduction in the amount of tax you PAY.
It does not take money out of the government's pockets.
It lets you keep it in YOURS!
I hope I am one of your competitors if you don't know the difference between spending your own money for your business and your employee's benefit instead of sending it to the IRS for someone else to spend for you.
Hell, send it to me.
jw
You just don't understand, do you?
A "tax credit" does not have to be "funded" because it is a reduction in the amount of tax you PAY.
It does not take money out of the government's pockets.
It lets you keep it in YOURS!
I hope I am one of your competitors if you don't know the difference between spending your own money for your business and your employee's benefit instead of sending it to the IRS for someone else to spend for you.
Hell, send it to me.
jw
reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 08:47 PM by jdub297
reply to post by marg6043
Do you have an alternative?
Are you saying that there should be NO reform?
If not, then who should it come from?
jw
Do you have an alternative?
Are you saying that there should be NO reform?
If not, then who should it come from?
jw
reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 08:49 PM by Jenna
reply to post by nixie_nox
They've tried. Not their fault the media is too busy talking about H.R. 3200 to talk about anything else. Unless of course it's to bash a Republican. If there aren't any Republicans doing stupid, moronic, or outrageous things they can't be bothered to report on anything else in the realm of politics except the Democrats bill.
Here's Tom Coburn talking about health care on C-SPAN. (It's a C-SPAN link so I can't embed it.)
And here he is at a press conference about comprehensive health care.
And the Q and A portion of the press conference.
Jim DeMint also had a press release about his health care bill, but I don't recall hearing much about it. He also wrote an op-ed for Forbes.
They've been talking about their plans, but the media ignores it. That can hardly be blamed on anyone other than the media outlets.
They've tried. Not their fault the media is too busy talking about H.R. 3200 to talk about anything else. Unless of course it's to bash a Republican. If there aren't any Republicans doing stupid, moronic, or outrageous things they can't be bothered to report on anything else in the realm of politics except the Democrats bill.
Here's Tom Coburn talking about health care on C-SPAN. (It's a C-SPAN link so I can't embed it.)
And here he is at a press conference about comprehensive health care.
And the Q and A portion of the press conference.
Jim DeMint also had a press release about his health care bill, but I don't recall hearing much about it. He also wrote an op-ed for Forbes.
They've been talking about their plans, but the media ignores it. That can hardly be blamed on anyone other than the media outlets.
reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 08:57 PM by JBA2848
reply to post by jdub297
The base tax that people pay goes to pay for the government to run. All taxes that are added are added by a bill that needs x amount of dollars to run. When people like Nancy Pelosi creates a program to help insure children of families making under a hundred thousand dollars a year. She pays for it by adding taxes to cigerettes. The taxes on those cigerettes was not even close to the cost of the program she started which makes it unfunded.
And in this case theres a tax base that doesn't even pay for the government to run because theres not enough money coming in in the form of taxes to pay for the government thats why theres a ten trillion dollar debt. And if you take money out of that tax base to give people money towards health insurance that is a unfunded tax credit adding to the defict. So in order for these tax credits to be paid for they would have to have something like the cigerette tax to pay for them. Ive seen where there already eyeiing sodas for sin taxes to pay for bull crap like these tax credits they talk about in this bill.
Atleast in Obamas bill there is a trigger which states if they can't find the funding in savings or taxes propsed then the bill will no go into effect until the funding is found. Lets see that put into these Republicans bill and they would never go into effect becuase there is no fund for them only defict adding tax cuts and subsidies.
[edit on 12-9-2009 by JBA2848]
The base tax that people pay goes to pay for the government to run. All taxes that are added are added by a bill that needs x amount of dollars to run. When people like Nancy Pelosi creates a program to help insure children of families making under a hundred thousand dollars a year. She pays for it by adding taxes to cigerettes. The taxes on those cigerettes was not even close to the cost of the program she started which makes it unfunded.
And in this case theres a tax base that doesn't even pay for the government to run because theres not enough money coming in in the form of taxes to pay for the government thats why theres a ten trillion dollar debt. And if you take money out of that tax base to give people money towards health insurance that is a unfunded tax credit adding to the defict. So in order for these tax credits to be paid for they would have to have something like the cigerette tax to pay for them. Ive seen where there already eyeiing sodas for sin taxes to pay for bull crap like these tax credits they talk about in this bill.
Atleast in Obamas bill there is a trigger which states if they can't find the funding in savings or taxes propsed then the bill will no go into effect until the funding is found. Lets see that put into these Republicans bill and they would never go into effect becuase there is no fund for them only defict adding tax cuts and subsidies.
[edit on 12-9-2009 by JBA2848]
reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 10:09 PM by jdub297
reply to post by JBA2848
Maybe you missed this, but President Obama endorsed "tort reform" in his speech on Wednesday!
The only thing you are doing is spouting liberal propaganda, even though their "fearless leader" turned his back on them and their ATLA (Am. Trial Lawyers Assoc'n.) owners!
You REALLY, really don't get it do you?
jw
" Implements comprehensive medical liability reform that will reduce costly, unnecessary defensive medicine practiced by doctors trying to protect themselves from overzealous trial lawyers."
This limits the amount of money you can sue for from suffering and limits the amount you can collect for damages as in how much it cost you for the rest of your life to be treated for injuries or how much you can sue for on the loss of income due from injuries. and if im not kistaken $200,000 was the cap they wanted on it.
Maybe you missed this, but President Obama endorsed "tort reform" in his speech on Wednesday!
The only thing you are doing is spouting liberal propaganda, even though their "fearless leader" turned his back on them and their ATLA (Am. Trial Lawyers Assoc'n.) owners!
You REALLY, really don't get it do you?
jw
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