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For those who think Flight 93 was shot down...

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posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 03:15 PM
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If you think Flight 93 (or a drone 757) was shot down over Shanksville:

1. If it was shot in the air before the crater and crashed in that field causing the crater, why is there no debris on the ground leading up to the crater?

2. If it was shot and hit past the crater and crashed somewhere past the crater, are you saying the FBI staged the crater scene?



(To let you know my position, I don't believe any plane crashed in or nearby Shanksville. I believe these shoot down rumors may have been disinfo this whole time to help cover that no plane crashed.)


[edit on 12-9-2009 by ATH911]




posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by ATH911
 


As far as the first one, thats easy. Just because something is shot in the air, doesnt mean that it was in pieces before it hit the ground. It could have been shot out of the air and still a whole when it hit the ground.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by raz24400
 


So what was all that debris the rained for miles if the plane was shot before it reached the crater area, but crashed whole in that field?



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 03:47 PM
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I read that the debris field was 3-6 miles long.

Here is a link.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by raz24400
 


Oh really? So, what miracle weapon will do this?



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 

They're called Sidewinder missiles -- the same ones that the mayor of Shanksville and several other Viet Nam vets heard on 9/11.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by GoldenFleece
 


So you believe a Sidewinder was used huh? Just how familiar are you with them? Do you understand how they work?

Here is a hint, when you launch a Sidewinder at a target, it is going to home in on the biggest infrared signature it sees. In the case of an airplane, this would be the exhaust.

If a Sidewinder had been used on Flight 93, you would have found engine parts scattered all over the place. This didnt happen with Flight 93. The only engine part of note found any significant distance from the crash site was a chunk of the engine fan which went rolling across the ground after impact..leaving a trail. In other words, the crash site indicates that the engines were in one piece and on the airplane when it hit the ground.


Next?



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenFleece
They're called Sidewinder missiles -- the same ones that the mayor of Shanksville and several other Viet Nam vets heard on 9/11.


They "heard" Sidewinders in Vietnam, huh???


Kinda funny, since that missile is used to shoot down other aircraft, and the US was mainly using them up in Northern Vietnam at the time. I seriously doubt they ever heard one.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 

What, are you saying you don't believe Rummy when he says Flight 93 was shot down?





posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by GoldenFleece
 

So you believe a Sidewinder was used huh? Just how familiar are you with them? Do you understand how they work?

The only engine part of note found any significant distance from the crash site was a chunk of the engine fan which went rolling across the ground after impact..leaving a trail. In other words, the crash site indicates that the engines were in one piece and on the airplane when it hit the ground.

You mean that chunk of engine fan that "rolled" for a mile and a half? You mean the wreckage that was scattered for 8 miles?

Do you actually read what you write or do you just assume people are too stupid not to notice your ludicrous claims that since no engine parts were found near the crash scene, this indicates that Flight 93 was in one piece when it hit the ground?

Swampfox, you're too much!



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


I believe it's very possible that Flight 93 was struck/shot down. Reports of debris a significant distance from the crash site seems to support this -- at least as a possibility.

I'm really curious......... how come your reply reads "Reply to goldenfleece", but is actually to the OP? Did you change the reply string, or did something very odd happen?



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by ATH911
 


You know what I wish? I were there was video, or at least photos that were vetted as having been immediately after the crash. I've seen the photos alleged to be of dumpsters full of Flight 93 artifacts. I can understand why there might not be photos of the immediate aftermath available -- there must've been human remains, however small.

question, ATH911....... where do you think the actual Flight 93 plane went, if you don't support the idea of a plane crashing there?



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 07:52 PM
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you people realise, you are all trying to make sense of something that,
no matter how you add it up. it doesn't add up. nuimbers don't lie.
so it just dosn't add up period..........



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by argentus
reply to post by ATH911
 


You know what I wish? I were there was video, or at least photos that were vetted as having been immediately after the crash. I've seen the photos alleged to be of dumpsters full of Flight 93 artifacts. I can understand why there might not be photos of the immediate aftermath available -- there must've been human remains, however small.

question, ATH911....... where do you think the actual Flight 93 plane went, if you don't support the idea of a plane crashing there?
I often wondered that myself. Where did that plane end up at? I think most of us agree that it was not at the so called crash site.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by esdad71
 



I think our government shot down Flight 93


I have to disagree with you on this because, I have evidences that prove flight 93 was still airborne “pass” the alleged crash site. I am convinced that flight 93 landed in Ohio.
What happened to the passengers, I don’t know I can only guess at this point.


United 93 Still Airborne After Alleged Crash - According To ATC/Radar
04/28/09 (PilotsFor911Truth.org) - Recently it has been brought to our attention that Air Traffic Control (ATC) transcripts reveal United 93 as being airborne after it's alleged crash. Similar scenarios have been offered with regard to American 77 and American 11 showing an aircraft target continuing past its alleged crash point in the case of American 11, or past the turn-around point in the case of American 77. However, both these issues can be easily explained by "Coast Mode" radar tracking. This is not the case with United 93.


pilotsfor911truth.org...


Full Transcript Here
United 93 transponder is recognized by Air Traffic Control as airborne after alleged impact time. Some have made the excuse this is due to Coast Mode tracking. ATC did not recognize any signs of CST (Coast Mode). Further confirmation that this was not any type of "Coast Mode" is that ATC also recognized United 93 reporting an altitude. The only way ATC could observe a reported altitude is if United 93 were squawking Mode C on the transponder, which means altitude reporting capability. Further confirmation comes in the form of latitude and longitude positions reported by ATC. N39 51 - W78 46 were reported as the last known radar position of United 93. It is unclear if the position is reported as Degrees, Minutes or Decimal, however, standard aviation terminology is in Degrees, Minutes. With that said, both positions are well past the alleged United 93 Crash site.

pilotsfor911truth.org...


so I do not think they are past a cover up


I have to disagree with you on that.


Lies, Conflicting Reports, Cover-Up's

Location of American 77 Flight Data Recorder - Part II
11/30/07 - Many may recall an article we published regarding location of American Airlines Flight 77 Flight Data Recorder (AA 77 FDR) in which we expose the govt story of the flight data recorder being found at the entrance hole and exit hole. Since the article has been published, the MSNBC article we sourced (www.msnbc.msn.com...) no longer exists and now redirects to an irrelevant Newsweek page (www.newsweek.com...). Why would MSNBC want to remove a page which explains the recovery of AA 77 FDR? Is it because we exposed the conflicting reports of location? It gets deeper.
Full Article

pilotsfor911truth.org...


UAL Flight 93 Landed Safely
At Cleveland Hopkins Airport
Plane Lands In Cleveland - Bomb Feared Aboard

Reported by 9News Staff
Web produced by:Liz Foreman
9/11/01 11:43:57 AM

A Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing Tuesday at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport due to concerns that it may have a bomb aboard, said Mayor Michael R. White.

White said the plane had been moved to a secure area of the airport, and was evacuated.

United identified the plane as Flight 93. The airline did not say how many people were aboard the flight.

United said it was also "deeply concerned" about another flight, Flight 175, a Boeing 767, which was bound from Boston to Los Angeles.

On behalf of the airline CEO James Goodwin said: "The thoughts of everyone at United are with the passengers and crew of these flights. Our prayers are also with everyone on the ground who may have been involved.

"United is working with all the relevant authorities, including the FBI, to obtain further information on these flights," he said.

______

Reply to email commenting on Flight 93 using link

www.wcpo.com...


No Body Parts Found At Flt 93 Crash Scene

www.flight93crash.com...

inn.globalfreepress.com...

better: inn.globalfreepress.com...

Dulce Decorum

Dulce still points out, that something is odd with the serial numbers of Flight93 and Flight 175.
The serial numbers of the ORIGINAL planes are SAME serial numbers of the planes that ARE STILL FLYING. 591UA and 612UA.

Dulce argues, that though N-number can be transferred, the manufacturer serial number CANNOT be transferred.

According to some spot-witnesses, Boeing 757-222 SERIAL NUMBER 28142 is flying around Chicago under the alias 594UA.

According to the FAA, N594UA Boeing 757-222 flies now with a DIFFERENT serial number, namely 28145.

Something is fishy.


www.rense.com...


I just stumbled on your thread, I just posted this in another thread, and I thought I would share it here as well.

I do not believe flight 93 was shot down or crash period. There has never been any proof that flight 93 crashed in Shanskville PA. The FBI makes phony claims; the FBI has been caught lying just about everything regarding 911.




[edit on 12-9-2009 by impressme]



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by GoldenFleece
 


You mean the piece that rolled about 900 feet.




Jeff Reinbold, the National Park Service representative responsible for the Flight 93 National Memorial, confirms the direction and distance from the crash site to the basin: just over 300 yards south, which means the fan landed in the direction the jet was traveling. "It's not unusual for an engine to move or tumble across the ground," says Michael K. Hynes, an airline accident expert who investigated the crash of TWA Flight 800 out of New York City in 1996. "When you have very high velocities, 500 mph or more," Hynes says, "you are talking about 700 to 800 ft. per second. For something to hit the ground with that kind of energy, it would only take a few seconds to bounce up and travel 300 yards


Mile and a half...thats funny...lol.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by argentus
 


The "debris" that was found a significant distance, was only lightweight items...fabric, paper etc...no mechanical debris that would indicate a missile strike was found at a distance that would preclude it from being from impact with the ground.

Even the engine fan that Fleece mistakenly believes was found over a mile away disproves the Sidewinder theory. Had a Sidewinder hit, the engine fan...would have been a few thousand fragments instead of a couple pieces.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by argentus
 

The "debris" that was found a significant distance, was only lightweight items...fabric, paper etc...no mechanical debris that would indicate a missile strike was found at a distance that would preclude it from being from impact with the ground.

Nothing but lightweight items -- HA!

Just more lies and disinformation from our resident professional debunker:


Investigators locate 'black box' from Flight 93; widen search area in Somerset crash
Thursday, September 13, 2001

...Finding the flight data recorder had been the focus of investigators as they widened their search area today following the discoveries of more debris, including what appeared to be human remains, miles from the point of impact at a reclaimed coal mine.

Residents and workers at businesses outside Shanksville, Somerset County, reported discovering clothing, books, papers and what appeared to be human remains. Some residents said they collected bags-full of items to be turned over to investigators. Others reported what appeared to be crash debris floating in Indian Lake, nearly six miles from the immediate crash scene.

John Fleegle, an Indian Lake Marina employee, said FBI agents were skeptical of his reports about debris in the lake until they traveled to the lake shore Wednesday afternoon.

By Wednesday morning, crash debris began washing ashore at the marina. Fleegle said there was something that looked like a rib bone amid pieces of seats, small chunks of melted plastic and checks.

He said FBI agents who spent the afternoon patrolling the lake in rented boats eventually carted away a large garbage bag full of debris. "

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

post-gazette.com...


Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Even the engine fan that Fleece mistakenly believes was found over a mile away disproves the Sidewinder theory. Had a Sidewinder hit, the engine fan...would have been a few thousand fragments instead of a couple pieces.

You're too funny, Disinfo King. The entire plane (except for an engine) WAS in thousands of fragments that was scattered over MILES.

BTW, according to Pennsylvania state police and the FBI, the ENTIRE engine (not just the engine fan) WAS found at a "considerable distance" -- not 300 yards like you claim.


[State Police Major] Szupinka said searchers found one of the large engines from the aircraft "at a considerable distance from the crash site."

"It appears to be the whole engine," he added.

Szupinka said most of the remaining debris, scattered over a perimeter that stretches for several miles, are in pieces no bigger than a "briefcase."

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



We know it crashed, but not why
FBI is silent, fueling "shot down" rumors


By WILLIAM BUNCH
bunchw@phillynews.com

SHANKSVILLE, Pa. - Ernie Stull is the mayor of this tiny farming borough that was so brutally placed on America's psychic map on the morning of Sept. 11, when United Airlines Flight 93 slammed nose-down into the edge of a barren strip-mine moonscape a couple of miles outside of town.

A 77-year-old World War II veteran and retired Dodge dealer, he's certainly no conspiracy theorist.

And, when you ask Stull for his theory of what caused the jetliner to crash that morning, he will give you the prevailing theory - that a cockpit battle between the hijackers and burly, heroic passengers somehow caused the Boeing 757 to spiral out of control. "There's no doubt in my mind that they did put it down before it got to Washington and caused more damage," he said.

But press the mayor for details, and he will add something surprising.

"I know of two people - I will not mention names - that heard a missile," Stull said. "They both live very close, within a couple of hundred yards. . .This one fellow's served in Vietnam and he says he's heard them, and he heard one that day." The mayor adds that based on what he knows about that morning, military F-16 fighter jets were "very, very close."

If the mayor of Shanksville still seems conflicted about what caused the crash of Flight 93 two months ago, he is hardly alone. As the initial shock of Sept. 11 wears off, the crash some 80 miles east of Pittsburgh, and what caused it, is beginning to emerge as the greatest mystery from the worst terrorist attack in American history.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


If the government can't even tell the truth about Flight 93, why should we believe any other part of their story?

Just like the disinformation that Swampy constantly spews on ATS, they lie about everything.


[edit on 13-9-2009 by GoldenFleece]



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by GoldenFleece
 

It is always funny to read your posts, because you never bother to actually read your sources.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 09:01 PM
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There was a lady on the ground that said, it went under some power lines then lifted up over the trees then dissapeared and she seen the smoke. Kinda sounds like the pentagon's plane traveling very low to the ground and not leaving any wreckage.



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