I've seen the film, and there is nothing educational about it.

Hell, the "terrorists" look white (look at the hands).

I saw the video.

I wish I hadnt.

I definetly DO NOT think children should see this type of video without parental consent. We arent putting "fuzzy goggles" on them by not showing them this. Its not psychologically healthy for an adult to see that, much less a child. Why do you think people who are in wars go crazy with shellshock and psychological trauma??

ANYONE that uses images of abuse or an execution to express a political adgenda is twisted...

For a teacher (non-college level) to do this without consulting parents first with such volitile video i consider child endangerment.

Ive worked in TV news for 10 yrs, and aside from the 9-11 live coverage, this execution video was the most apalling thing i have ever seen,
i can only immagine 9th graders trying to cope with the image let alone the gurgling screams forever burned into their brains....

These teachers are GONE, I hope they never "teach" again.

Why dont we just show the kids porn to say that its wrong too? What went thru the teachers minds?

Originally posted by Cutwolf
Funny how "war is good and war is necessary and we should have gone to Iraq" yet as soon as someone shows the true side of war to the public there is outrage. The purpose of school is to educate. By showing a video that shows the true face of war you are educating the high schoolers (our future) on what war really is.

They could have went about it without a political agenda and made it optional viewing, but showing the video is completely acceptable. By sheltering our youth from the truths of war, war will become depersonalized to them and they won't be able to make the proper decisions in the future regarding war. The only way to make an educated decision on war is to know what war really is.

I commend the teachers showing the video but not how they went about it.


[Edited on 14-5-2004 by Cutwolf]

I've read this entire thread so far and this is the post that summarizes my view on it. It should be shown, but the children as well as the parents should've had a warning in advance.

where i live the statement "teachers have no parental right" is non-valid. why? because the parents over here are to lazy or pre-occupied to be there for their kids. and say that schools are the ones who should do all the parentall chores. it's messed up and schools don't like it. still it doesnt change the fact how it works here. over here we're self-sufficient and knowlegble faster then in most countries.

when i was at school we watched movies about shindler's list, conspiracy, weekly news about things going on in the world. this was done since age 10-11. it helps young kids to realise what is going on. after we watched it we discussed it and shared our own views. it's a maturing process. some images are more shocking then the next...so be it. that is life. no one said life is easy. and it sure showed me what war is truly like and made me, as well as my class mates and kids of other years to decide never to join the armed forces. but there should be a minimum age when kids should start to be shown these things. 9-11 years is a good age i believe. it worked find here for kids before me as well as after me.

keeping a child "protected" and hidden from all things that might harm them only harms the kid on the long run. they will be to naive to understand what is truly going on. then, like most ppl today, they will be easily manipulate. simply put they will repeat anything the news says.

Bombers8 Anyone that would commend a teacher for such a stupid move has got their head up their (c). You're an idiot.

Yep im an idiot!
These are young adults, not children. They should see what is happening . The United States is prone to censoring sex and nudity but glorifying violence in the media. Why stop now? Schools have shown holocaust images and other materials that are just as disturbing.
I remember being shown a film on halocaust camps while i was in high school. They were completely disturbing but they made me think and they made me react. That is what teachers are supposed to do.
oh and to anyone who hasnt seen the video of Nicholas Berg's brutal murder you need to watch it as it will make you remember what a mess our country is in the most graphic sense. I really don't want to hear "oh I just cant watch that.."
You CAN watch it becuase your head wasnt carved off in a foreign country..
enjoy your disgust while you still have the physical ability to own it..

It was wrong also because the class was a captive audience. Its also wrong that the teachers were imposing their political views on the kids in a photography class.

I'm sorry, but as a parent of 3 young boys, I cannot agree with ANYONE showing them these things, hey yeah, the world is a damn messed up place, and at times of war its even worse, but the reality is that this DOES cause trauma to the mind. It would almost be just as bad as actually beheading someone in front of them. Maybe when some of you have children of your own, and have to deal with these issues from a parents standpoint, you might understand a bit better.(Assuming you arnt a parent)

I'm not saying to hide the world from kids, my kids are aware of whats going on to some extent. They know there is a war going on and they saw the effects of 9/11 too. But like I have already said, what these teachers did was child abuse, whether you agree or not doesnt matter, its what is.

well thats the problem.

you're only looking at it from a parental point of view. or the misguided "law" that is based on some odd test/experiment trying to proof something.

try looking it from a kid's perspective. I might be young myself, but i do know that kids can handle a lot more then you think. and they won't be traumatised that easily as you or any test makes it out to be. looking at such images starting age 10 is good. but not everything in 1 go. that would brainwash em. but one or two bulletins every so days is good.

at the school i attented we were shown such images once a week at thursday afternoon. and it had only positive effects on...oh let's say 500+ kids all age 9-12. that showed me its good no matter what a parents nor governmental test shows.

only thing wrong with what the teachers did was not to give a heads up to the kids or parents. also saying this is was happens when its war wasn't good either. the teacher shouldn't have told their own opinoin. they should've asked what the kids thought of it and ask them questions. teach the kids to understand what is going on and teach em to think for themselves towards this kind of situation.

Originally posted by Cutwolf
Just curious - how is this any different than me being forced to see images from WWII or the Holocaust (or else not being able to pass the test and thus failing the unit)? Because it is recent it is wrong? I recall having to watch a video with the Nazis tossing bodies from the concentration camps into a pit. How is that different or any less "offensive?" Simply because he is an American? A bit of a double standard here, don't you think?

Holocaust footage is necessary viewing for young people. It happened in a civilised western society and could happen again if people don't learn about it and are aware of what extremism can do. The murder of one man, however brutal and wrong it is, is not such necessary viewing. Not only is it a deeply disturbing video but it is also an isolated incident, where nobody can say for sure which side has been more brutal - the US army or Iraqi militants.

Showing the video in schools, besides being irresponsible on the teacher's part, also probably has some implied political agenda. Indoctrination has no place in the school system of a democratic nation...another reason children must learn about the evils of fascism.

Originally posted by Enyalius
well thats the problem.

you're only looking at it from a parental point of view. or the misguided "law" that is based on some odd test/experiment trying to proof something.

try looking it from a kid's perspective. I might be young myself, but i do know that kids can handle a lot more then you think. and they won't be traumatised that easily as you or any test makes it out to be. looking at such images starting age 10 is good. but not everything in 1 go. that would brainwash em. but one or two bulletins every so days is good.

Well to play Devils Advocate here, by the time I was 16 I was watching Faces of Death and a lot of horror flicks, but I also went looking for that. And it wasnt all real life images. Well, the horror wasnt, the faces of death was in some respects, a lot of it was faked as we found out later.

I have to view it from a parents perspective, because thats what I am, and only want the best for my kids, I dont see ANY value in them seeing such a terrible act of hatred and violence.
It was wrong, and abusive to thier minds. If there was warning, and all, it very well might not of been so bad, but I wouldnt never let my children see that, they can when they become curious teenagers and look stuff like this up for themselves when I am not looking...LOL

I would also sue the school, and make sure that teacher was fired, if I could control myself long enough to not take a swing at them. I'm not going to argue with you about it, I know what is good and whats not...lol

I also have the right to decide what my children see. By showing them that film, they took the right of a parent and chucked it out the window, a lot of issues here that could be brought up, and I see none that justify it. Not ONE.

Originally posted by Enyalius
you're only looking at it from a parental point of view.
try looking it from a kid's perspective.

I might look at it from a kids perspective, but only to get a feel for their thought process. They would get no vote in my final decision; that' my job as a parent.

I'm not here to be my kid's friend, by which I mean I'm not here to always agree with them. Kids need limits, and want limits. A caring parent provides limits.

I would bet that many kids would vote for lowering of the drinking age, no parental curfews, and other self-serving agendas. Kids don't have the maturity to always know what is best for them.

at the school i attented we were shown such images once a week at thursday afternoon. and it had only positive effects on...oh let's say 500+ kids all age 9-12. that showed me its good no matter what a parents nor governmental test shows.

Sorry, but I don't believe you have any way of knowing this to be a fact. Unless, of course, you have the results of studies done, with facts and figures to back this up.

only thing wrong with what the teachers did was not to give a heads up to the kids or parents.

There were several things the teachers did wrong, starting with not clearing it with the school administration, which has a policy governing these types of issues.

I didn't mean this to be a parental lecture. You are trying to present your case without flaming, for which I respect you. I just wanted you to see the issue from the viewpoint of a parent.

Originally posted by Enyalius
I probably offended people with that. but it's my opinion and my view on things. which can be onorthodox at times.

I'm not offended myself, and welcome the view. Even if I don't agree, its still your right to express it.
Rock on!

As a side note to this, its actually refreshing to hear teenage opinions on this matter. I dont know how old you are, only can guess, but from your posts, you seem to be rather intelligent. I do remember very clearly how I was when I was a teenager, and I am still 16 at heart. Just when it comes to my kids, I have to take a different stand. I hope you understand that at least. I would never let my kids be like I was as a kid...I was a parents worst nightmare! LOL Although I realize, I dont have a lot of control after a certain point, and actually, don't want control, I want my kids to be able to express thier own identity like I did when I was a kid. Sorry, I am babbling....



[Edited on 19-5-2004 by Darkblade71]

well i'm not a teenager any more. i'm 20 and will be 21 in november.

for me it's rather difficult to express my opinions concerning politics and religion, because almost no one seems to see things the way i do. causes a lot of frustration at times. thats why i joined this forum after reading it for about 2 weeks. it's an open minded community and i'm not dismissed as a naive "kid" just because i got a different view.

we all know that there are 2 or more sides to a story. in this case there are the parents, kids, teachers, school. it's difficult to listen to all stories when some ppl are not open minded or patient enough. you also need to be able to place yourself in the shoes of the other person. in this case i noticed everyone replying from a parental point of view neglecting the child. sure you can say "i want what is best for my kid", we all do. but how can you be so sure that your decision is the right one without placing yourself in place of the child?

some topics, like this, are delicate. but i'm not going to join the popular group and repeating everything said on tv or news. why should i? most have different stories then the next. what is really true? in result you use your own common sense and form your own opinion. and if you got character you will stick with it no matter what

Well, actually, I did put myself in the place of my oldest boy, who is 11 and very sensative. I know what it would do to him. That is why I hold as strong of an opinion on this as I do.

As to the rest of your comment, very well put!

Always be yourself.

the teacher was probally a liberal shoing the video outta hate for the war and of shrub. would you want someone like that teaching your children. even if i was a lib id probally say no.

They are showing impressionable youth, through the schools these types of things is for propaganda reasons...pro-war propaganda....

I hadnt heard about anyone showing iraqi prisoner rape videos in schools.

The whole video reeks of a set-up for this particular pro-war propaganda reason...

Anyone knows if enlistment has increased in the schools after the tape has been viewed?? my guess would be that some simple minded sheep(teenagers) would join the patriotic band wagon and run for the nearest army recruiter..

hilarious.. yet so predictable



[Edited on 19-5-2004 by McGotti]

Children? 9th Grade? So about 15y/o right.
I might remind you that this 'Fragile Child' who you are so serious about protecting from Violent Images, is only 3 short years away from being 'Drafted' and forced face first into the full reality of War if it's still going of course. I think it's time to stop fooling yourself and stop coddling your child at this age.

Another thing is that THIS IS ON THE LOCAL BROADCAST NEWS. Along with a variety of reports about Rape, Murder, Drug Abuse, Grand Theaft, etc. While this video is more graphic than a PG rating, it isn't quite an R rating either. Actually, in comparison it's not much worse than watching COPS, Americas Most Wanted, Live War Coverage, and so on.

You can't just act like True Events, even when upsetting, didn't happen. It's called Denial and people go to therapy for years to rid themselves of their Denial about the true events of their past. You aren't helping anyone by hiding the Truth from them. It's amusing that anyone here would even think of doing such a thing, while supporting a slogan of 'Deny Ignorance'.

Ignorance - The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

Originally posted by mOjOm
You can't just act like True Events, even when upsetting, didn't happen. It's called Denial and people go to therapy for years to rid themselves of their Denial about the true events of their past. You aren't helping anyone by hiding the Truth from them. It's amusing that anyone here would even think of doing such a thing, while supporting a slogan of 'Deny Ignorance'.

No one is denying that it happened, the point was in showing the ACTUAL beheading. You can tell kids about it, they probibly already know from seeing the news. My kids do, But to show them the actual act is different. They can get the idea without seeing the extriemely graphic content involved.

Was a cruel act on behalf of the teachers, and as has been pointed out several times, it was done for the teachers agenda, not the kids benefit.

[Edited on 19-5-2004 by Darkblade71]

This is all part of the original "operation SHOCK AND AWE"

I would say that it may shock a few people into mindless acceptance of hatred towards iraq..therefore giving free reign and full support of whatever bush has to do " get revenge on them for killing an american"