Notice how I said "I agree with the teachers for showing it, but not how they went about it."

I'm still curious as to how my class being shown bodies being thrown into pits and set on fire or gas chambers or pictures of hiroshima post a-bomb is different from this? Is it because he is an American and, as Americans, we can't handle the truth?

Have we become so "That doesn't happen to us. That happens over in the middle east" that when it does happen to us, our whole system of belief and sense of security is shattered, and therefore images/videos such as the Nick Berg beheading should be censored so we can continue with our false sense of security?

[Edited on 16-5-2004 by Cutwolf]

[Edited on 16-5-2004 by Cutwolf]

Showing these kids the actual beheading is a form of mental child abuse and these teachers should not only be fired, but charged with child abuse as well.
There was no warning, and pictures like this, even to teenagers, can be tramatic. I have 3 boys, and If it was my kids, I would of been furious! And might of had a confrontation with the teacher.

These images are bad enough, but when you dont know they are coming, it can cause trama to the mind.

Its child abuse.

Just my input.

Yet showing gas chambers, dead bodies in pits being set on fire, dead bodies in post A-Bomb hiroshima is fine?

I'll repeat my last point that people seem to be skipping over:

Notice how I said "I agree with the teachers for showing it, but not how they went about it."

I'm still curious as to how my class being shown bodies being thrown into pits and set on fire or gas chambers or pictures of hiroshima post a-bomb is different from this? Is it because he is an American and, as Americans, we can't handle the truth?

Have we become so "That doesn't happen to us. That happens over in the middle east" that when it does happen to us, our whole system of belief and sense of security is shattered, and therefore images/videos such as the Nick Berg beheading should be censored so we can continue with our false sense of security?

[Edited on 16-5-2004 by Cutwolf]

Originally posted by Cutwolf
Yet showing gas chambers, dead bodies in pits being set on fire, dead bodies in post A-Bomb hiroshima is fine?

I'll repeat my last point that people seem to be skipping over:

Notice how I said "I agree with the teachers for showing it, but not how they went about it."

I'm still curious as to how my class being shown bodies being thrown into pits and set on fire or gas chambers or pictures of hiroshima post a-bomb is different from this? Is it because he is an American and, as Americans, we can't handle the truth?

Have we become so "That doesn't happen to us. That happens over in the middle east" that when it does happen to us, our whole system of belief and sense of security is shattered, and therefore images/videos such as the Nick Berg beheading should be censored so we can continue with our false sense of security?

[Edited on 16-5-2004 by Cutwolf]

You hold a good arguement there, and I'm torn on it, but I think a lot of it has to do with the graphic content.
A beheading in color, with screams that happened a few weeks ago is different than film from 60 years ago.

To discuss these things is ok, and to show some approved footage of past events, that have been screened and edited for content is ok.

I saw all of the old faces of death movies, and some of them were bad, but didnt even compare to the beheading film that I saw. That to me, was just cruel to show to them, as a parent, it would be my duty to take swift action. Kids are exposed to a lot of violence as it is, but this is something WAY beyond what they should see.
It can cause them to have nightmares and mental trama for years to come. Kids need to be shielded from the worst things, this was an act of personal cruelty on behalf of the teachers. IMO

Teacher's aren't to teach political opinions. Anyway, is this video more wrong than the videos that scare young Americans for sex before marriage...as they could catch so many deseases and get some ugly stuff down there...as shown in educational videos?

Frightening the youth for sex but scared to show them the real world. That's somehow ironic.

But for sure - 9th class was a way too young audience. It is more something for a serious discussion with students.

Originally posted by Cutwolf

I'm still curious as to how my class being shown bodies being thrown into pits and set on fire or gas chambers or pictures of hiroshima post a-bomb is different from this? Is it because he is an American and, as Americans, we can't handle the truth?

Have we become so "That doesn't happen to us. That happens over in the middle east" that when it does happen to us, our whole system of belief and sense of security is shattered, and therefore images/videos such as the Nick Berg beheading should be censored so we can continue with our false sense of security?


[Edited on 16-5-2004 by Cutwolf]

[Edited on 16-5-2004 by Cutwolf]

You are trying to somehow tie this into the fact that we are Americans. You are wrong. It seems that you don't like the Americans or our country too much, regardless of your nationality.

There was no forewarning that this was going to be shown. This is different from your case, where you could have walked out of class, having been pre-warned.

On TV this morning, a psychiatrist stated that a group from Duke University discovered that viewing a videotape of a real event is psychologically equivalent to viewing it firsthand. This can cause psychological trauma to the kids.

These teachers do not have the parental rights over these kids.

I would be upset if some teacher decided to show a tape of a partial-birth abortion to my daughter. Moreso, if that teacher happened to be a math teacher.

The class in which the video was shown was a photography class. This is further proof that it was politically motivated.

You are trying to somehow tie this into the fact that we are Americans. You are wrong. It seems that you don't like the Americans or our country too much, regardless of your nationality.

I love Americans and I love our country. I am even attempting to get into West Point to serve out country. What I do not like, however, is everyone yells "raa raa we're going to war" yet whenever they see what war really is, they cry and ask it to be censored. Sorry for showing you images of reality! Sorry, Mr. Bush, if these images make you look bad: it is the truth. I'm tired of people asking the truths of what they overwhelmingly supported to be censored. You support it, you should face the consequences. I'm tired of the Bush administration and public officials censoring anything that might make Bush look bad.

There was no forewarning that this was going to be shown. This is different from your case, where you could have walked out of class, having been pre-warned.

Not true, there was no forewarning.

On TV this morning, a psychiatrist stated that a group from Duke University discovered that viewing a videotape of a real event is psychologically equivalent to viewing it firsthand. This can cause psychological trauma to the kids.

So should we censor all images of war so it becomes just a depersonalized numbers game? You can't get the full effect without images and videos. This is war and maybe, just maybe, if America sees the truth of war, they will be able to excersize more restraint before jumping into a war.

I forgot to address the point that seems to be important to you:

from Cutwolf:
Notice how I said "I agree with the teachers for showing it, but not how they went about it."

If you agree with the teachers for showing it, then you must agree with the reason they showed it: to promote their own political agenda. This can be the only reason they showed it, because the video was shown in photgraphy class. {sarcasm}It's obvious the teacher wasn't showing it to accentuate the proper use of lighting, or to contrast colors and textures in photographs.{/sarcasm}

Let me rephrase: I agree with the teacher's right to show it, but I don't agree with how they went about it in a political way.

Cutwolf. I am all about shucking the mental complacency that seems to bind 30 and younger generations.

But in a public school, the people have the right to censure their own kids.

The difference between hiroshima, WW2, and this is that the former two are approved.

I may not agree with other parents, but we can not let teachers decide for parents what their kids see, especially while the teachers are not doing it for educational purposes.

from Cutwolf
Let me rephrase: I agree with the teacher's right to show it, but I don't agree with how they went about it in a political way.

How can you agree with someone's right to do something? They either have it or they don't.

You're totally missing the point. It has nothing to do with censorship, nothing to do with making GWB look bad. The fact that you are even trying to create these arguments shows your true feelings and motivations toward this; you are anti-Bush.

I don't remember seeing anything that Bush, or Republicans, have said about this issue. I do remember that the outcry is from parents and adults saying that these teachers overstepped their boundaries.

Yes the teacher has a right to show this video. He doesn't have the right to show it in the classroom the way he did. This is where you are confused. You argue about his right to show it. Nobody disputes his right. They dispute his failure as a responsible teacher. As I said before, I would not want my daughter to see a video of a partial-birth abortion, even though, according to you, the teacher would have the right to show it. I say, no he doesn't.

He is not being censored. Let him show it at home to his fellow wackos. Or find a TV channel to broadcast it. He won't be censored. Just don't do it in the classroom.



[Edited on 16-5-2004 by jsobecky]

The majority of the posters in this thread are NOT against the teachers showing it in a political way, they are against the teachers showing it period.

I am against the teachers showing it in a political way. For that they should be punished. I am for the teachers being allowed to show it in an educational way.

And, no, I am not anti-Bush. I don't like his administration, but I would feel this same way about any president that used so much censorship to keep themselves from looking bad. Maybe it has been done in the past but I am just now coming to the age where I can recognize it.

Originally posted by Cutwolf
The majority of the posters in this thread are NOT against the teachers showing it in a political way, they are against the teachers showing it period.

I am against the teachers showing it in a political way. For that they should be punished. I am for the teachers being allowed to show it in an educational way.

And, no, I am not anti-Bush. I don't like his administration, but I would feel this same way about any president that used so much censorship to keep themselves from looking bad. Maybe it has been done in the past but I am just now coming to the age where I can recognize it.

What exactly would a 9th grader learn specifically by watching the beheading of Nick Berg?

What exactly would a 9th grader learn specifically by watching the beheading of Nick Berg?

That war is not just a numbers game? That people really do die in war? That violence is sickening and should be used only in extreme situations?

IM against them showin it period.

Id hate to say it like this but i dont want my kids to see anything in the class room they couldnt see on public tv (dont want them to see alot of stuff on tv either)

THe WWII videos is history. I still dont agree with showing that graphic material to 9th graders but with the holocaust tapes (still i want to emphasize soem of the tapes not the realy nasty ones) they learn what happens when we let ruthless people rise to power and do nothing and when we turn a blind eye.

The nick berg tape is not historical. It very much so is a isolated incident that will not effect the course of the world like the holocaust did.

I dont think anyone should be forced to watch teh video of bergs death even if they are an adult.

Im curious if they let the kids leave if they didnt want to see it.

Originally posted by Cutwolf

What exactly would a 9th grader learn specifically by watching the beheading of Nick Berg?

That war is not just a numbers game? That people really do die in war? That violence is sickening and should be used only in extreme situations?

well you wan to show them this extreme example of violence to stop violence. I think this video has adverse effects. I would be suprised if it pissed a few kids off that a CIVILIAN was killed in a war. I mean by showin that video you might have just recruited another soldier who will go kill.

Originally posted by Cutwolf

That war is not just a numbers game? That people really do die in war? That violence is sickening and should be used only in extreme situations?

If you want to show the hate and contempt of the human heart, you need look no further than the metro section of any metropolitan newspaper.

What class would this be for? Teaching that to kids is not for schools to do. The purpose of schools are to educate kids so that they will be prepared for college and/or for the workplace/careers.

But is war not a numbers game? If what you stand to gain costs more than you are willing to give, then don't do it.

Terrorism (what this is) is not war. Not in the conventional sense.

But to what end is it to show 9th graders the truely graphic nature of war (if that is what it would do)?

That is by far, NOT a purpose for schools.

Originally posted by Quicksilver
I agree with you jethro. But i say let your kids have the fuzzy goggles on while they are young. They have teh rest of their lives to see teh real world. Just let them be kids

ITA.

Sometimes I feel the need to play devils advocate just to keep people on their toes, but this is one time where I can't help but go with the majority.

This is outright despicable showing children, (and I don't care if they were 9th graders,they're still children as far as I'm concerned...14 -15 is a very impressionable age) such visual barbarism.

Somebody on another thread said that you can't unsee what you've already seen (my apologies for not remembering who said this). I agree wholeheartedly and for that reason among others I opted out of watching that video. I couldn't handle just the IDEA of seeing it. I can't imagine how seeing something like that might emotionally/mentally impact a classroom of impressionable young teens.

If somebody showed that video and/or pictures to MY children I'd be down at the school kicking some serious ass.

Lastly, maybe what we SHOULD be teaching in schools is peace. I'm sure that's what those teachers meant to do by showing such "casualties of war", but that's not, IMO how you go about it.

[Edited on 16-5-2004 by KayEm]

Well firstly, if this is true I think it's awful. I agree with Pisky here, (and thanks for the compliment, much appriecated :up, I think that if someone that age wants to see it, then fair enough, but the teachers doing that without prior notice or option is just plain wrong. KayEm's quote (I can't recall who said it either) is so true, you cannot unsee what you have already seen. And it's not just the fact that it was shown to 9th graders in this way, I would find the teachers sick if they did this to adults.

Me personally, I haven't seen the photos or the film, and I don't plan on doing so.

I used to go to that school and still have freinds who go there. I wonder who it was.