What Do Republicans Want? - A Real Question

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


The truth is regarding illegals.. Next to nothing can be done. Unless they begin tossing out illegals at the front door and denying them emergency treatment (Which I believe would be human righs violation)

The only way it won't get directly put on the tax payer is for the govt. to say that they won't pay for it. Which means the hospital has to pay for it. Which means that they will raise prices to make up for their losses, which means that either way the collective pays for it.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Ohio is ready for UHC. They passed a 2% "franchise tax" on all Ohio hospitals so that the state receives 2% of what each hospital takes in. A way to both capitalize on the federal government and to cover lost tax revenues from lost jobs.

So think of it this way, if you in your state, pay your federal taxes (like purchase gasoline) and this plan passes. Every time I visit a hospital here in Ohio, the State of Ohio will make 2% of what the federal government pays out to the hospital. Of which you contributed a small part.

I am sure other states have done similar things as Ohio is not very inventive.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


The statement, from the same article, that worries me though is:

"Illegal immigrants would not be allowed to access the exchange that is set up," Gibbs said. Verification requirements are "something we'd work out with Congress," he said.

Lack of enforcement has always been the issue with Illegal Immigration IMHO. I believe not stating specifically HOW this will be enforced is a major legal loophole that WILL be abused.

This one area of debate only strengthens my belief that this bill is not ready yet.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


You know entering America illegal is...illegal?

Just because something says doesn't mean it is.

One example will more than likely be this health care. Going off our past and current leaders, I can say whatever the law says does not mean to much when it comes down to what actually happens.

Is it "FACT" that it will be "illegal" for them to get it? Probably...but lets see how well that works.

Oh, and it doesn't matter if someone is a republican, democrat, liberal, conservative, or smack dab in the middle. This is a plan that is being pushed through with very much dissent from people all over.

Originally posted by OrganizedChaos
Lack of enforcement has always been the issue with Illegal Immigration IMHO.

It's an issue with MANY laws. Unfortunately, the government continues to make more laws when what they really need to do is enforce the ones we have. A couple other examples are breed specific legislation and some gun related laws.

Unenforced laws are a huge problem, I agree. I'm not sure that's reason enough to prevent this legislation, though. Actually, I don't think it is. The problem of unenforceable laws is a HUGE one that needs to be addressed outside of any specific legislation, IMO.

But if they enforced the immigration laws, this whole problem would disappear. That's what I'd personally like to see happen. But I don't think we can address it within this bill at all...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


The enforcement I was alluding to was eligibility determination. I agree that they can't address Immigration Law enforcement in this bill. How about specifying clear Eligibility rules? Will E-Verify be used, or will they use the "Substantial Presence" test?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


No. I don't.

I don't know what either party wants but I want the same kind of health coverage the Iraqi's receive, courtesy of my tax dollars.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Is that to much to ask?

Originally posted by whaaa
I don't know what either party wants but I want the same kind of health coverage the Iraqi's receive, courtesy of my tax dollars.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Is that to much to ask?

Yes Whaaa - that is different because we are spreading freedoms not socialisms

Originally posted by jd140
The only thing I want in the Health Care bill is one sentance. Here it is and I don't think its asking for much.



I could argue the illegals getting this healthcare is wrong all day long. I despise them and I wouldn't pick one up in the middle of I-10 on a hot summer day if his life depended on it.

I understand not wanting illegal immigrants here but I think this is quite harsh. Have you really no soul that you would leave someone dying on the side of the road?

For the record I think the illegal immigration problem is a problem. And I think something needs to be serously done about it. And I don't appreciate them sucking the system. But I would never give up my humanity to leave one dying on the side of the road.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by jd140
This will not raise taxes(any tax) one cent and it will not add one cent to our debt.

Obama said that in his speech the other night. Why is that any less valid than if it's written into a bill? You think he's lying, but would trust it in a bill? I'm asking.

[edit on 11-9-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

Where do you think the money to institute this healthcare reform will come from? Let's assume that the reform is the right step and is great, would you consider now to be a bad time to spend money on anything of that magnitude considering our current financial situation as a country? Would it be a bad thing to take the healthcare bill off the fast track and really disect each part by qualified professionals in the field of medicine?

Originally posted by Aaron_Justin
Where do you think the money to institute this healthcare reform will come from?

We are wasting over a trillion dollars every year in the current health care system. That's HALF of what it costs. I think it will come from there.

Here are the biggest culprits: Source

Let's assume that the reform is the right step and is great, would you consider now to be a bad time to spend money on anything of that magnitude considering our current financial situation as a country?

Not spend money, reform the whole thing so that the wasted money gets spent on real health care.

Would it be a bad thing to take the healthcare bill off the fast track and really disect each part by qualified professionals in the field of medicine?

I've been reading the term "fast track" for a few days now. Is this the new catch phrase? And to answer your question, I don't know. It depends. If it means that it will actually get done, then yes. If it means it will get put on the back burner, then no.

[edit on 12-9-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

We are all citizens of this Earth, there should not be boundaries for humans not to cross, we all have the right to live on this Earth like everyone else, why can't they live where they want to live? What makes our land special, so that no one else can have it? They desrve the right to a good health as much as we do. Call my opinions weird, but I'm sticking to it.

reply to post by Phlynx

What makes our land special, so that no one else can have it?

Good point. Here is my answer:

Most any country...the majority of people will share a certain amount of ideals and beliefs. The people in this country...the majority...believe in American workers and people...I do. But the thing is...if I lived in any other country..as long as the ones in power weren't flat out evil...I'd be proud of it as well and want the best for it.

I don't think there is anything wrong with that...although dividing ourselves by race and religion is NOT right. Unfortunateley...that is a divider and I believe a cause for almost every single war that I've read about. Yes, the main premise behind it may be money...but it is always justified BY BELIEFS.

When was the last time the US was fighting a war against another "predominitely white" country since WW2?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Wouldn't it be possible to fix the wasteful spending in the healthcare system without reforming it completely? Then maybe take those funds and subsidize insurance for people that cannot afford it.

If thats how half is getting covered, then where is the other half coming from? I do not want to pay anymore than I already do in taxes.

There are other troubling areas I have found by reading the bill, though I have not finished it yet, here are a few.

1) Page 8:

Title IV -- Amendments to Internal Revenue Code of 1986

Subtitle A :
Part 1 :
Sec. 401 : Tax on individuals without acceptable healthcare coverage

~ What is the definition of "acceptable health care coverage" also, why
should a person be penalized if they do not want health care insurance. From what I read, acceptable healthcare will be determined by a commissioner.

Page 16:

Title I -- Protections and standards for qualified health benefits plans

Subtitle A :
Sec. 102 : Protecting the choice to keep current covereage
(a) :
1 : Limitation on new enrollment.
(A) : In general --- Except as provided in this paragraph, the
individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does
not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective
date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.

~ This contradicts what is being said about not impeding private insurance providers.

Also, it seems like whoever this commissioner is, he/she will have a large amount of power. This person will be the deciding factor on many elements of healthcare.

My source for the information in this post: docs.house.gov...



[edit on 12-9-2009 by Aaron_Justin]

Originally posted by Phlynx
We are all citizens of this Earth, there should not be boundaries for humans not to cross, we all have the right to live on this Earth like everyone else, why can't they live where they want to live? What makes our land special, so that no one else can have it? They desrve the right to a good health as much as we do. Call my opinions weird, but I'm sticking to it.

So if a random family decides to move into your living room, your ok with that because there should be no boundaries right? After all your living room is on Earth and we are all citizens of Earth.

On page 30 and 31, the healthcare bill defines how the Healthcare benefits advisory committee will be selected. Well, the president chooses 17 of them and the Comptroller General of the United States chooses 9 of them. People say the government will not be in control of healthcare, but that seems like the President has some sway over who is selected ergo what benefits will be provided.

Parkland Hospital employs in Dallas say that the majority of illegal aliens (Mexicans) that show up for emergency room treatment always pay cash and if they do not have enough will make payments.... There are a lot of people on this forum that have distorted perceptions about the majority of these people.

Originally posted by Aaron_Justin

Originally posted by Phlynx
We are all citizens of this Earth, there should not be boundaries for humans not to cross, we all have the right to live on this Earth like everyone else, why can't they live where they want to live? What makes our land special, so that no one else can have it? They desrve the right to a good health as much as we do. Call my opinions weird, but I'm sticking to it.

So if a random family decides to move into your living room, your ok with that because there should be no boundaries right? After all your living room is on Earth and we are all citizens of Earth.

The living room is mine, the Earth is not mine, It's as simple is that. I really don't want to argue about something like this though. ATS Mods don't like aruing much.

Originally posted by hypervigilant
Parkland Hospital employs in Dallas say that the majority of illegal aliens (Mexicans) that show up for emergency room treatment always pay cash and if they do not have enough will make payments.... There are a lot of people on this forum that have distorted perceptions about the majority of these people.

As a former [native] Dallas resident, I am very familar with Parkland Hospital. Can you provide a link for this information. I have never heard it before. Not saying you made it up, just would like to read the same info you are citing


Some interesting facts on Parkland Memorial Hospital - Dallas
Wonder how many other hospitals around the country are like this.

(sorry, Snopes wont let me c*p)

[edit on September 12th 2009 by greeneyedleo]