Overthrow the democratically elected president, "how patriotic"

*** ATTENTION***


Alright, bit of a heated discussion here.

Let's all step back, take a breath, count to ten, smoke a ciggy, whatever calms you.

Once you've taken a moment, engage in discussion again.

Stop the off topic and member name calling / attacking posts.

Thank You.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


"Democratically elected" is where the problem lies with this argument.

We do not live in a "Democracy" (or we are not supposed to anyway). We are not supposed to be a country where 51% tell 49% what they can and cannot do. We are supposed to be a country where if you do not violate others rights you can do as you wish. The "popular" election of any gov worker is evidence of the further encroach of socialism into our already totally corrupted government. This did not just start with Barry.

This is a Republic. A Republic is very different from a democracy.

Repeat with me now, "I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands..." Not, "and to the democracy for which it stands."

The whole corrupt fed.gov needs to go.

The entire infrastructure of special interest finance etc. needs to go.

For this form of government to work, and fed.gov to leave us alone, the flow of power from "We the People" to our county gov's, to state, and then to fed.gov must be restored.

Right now the power flows down and controls the people. The exact opposite of what the founders envisioned.

So for any US president to be "democratically elected" is nonsense.

As an example of democracy vs. republic we can look at gay marriage. In Kalifornia we recently had a democratic vote and a slightly larger amount of folks told a slightly smaller amount of folks that their behavior was unacceptable and they cannot wed a person of the same sex. In a Republic two individuals can enter into any type of voluntary contract together, such as same sex marriage. It is no place for a Republican form of government to dictate what a mal prohibitum crime is.

Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Very well said! Unfortunatly wasted on the delusional "patriots" that seem to llinger here more and more. The Republic endures....despite it's citizens!

ooohhh right....so we should do what you do....which is nothing?

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how it is that of all of 0bama's 43 predecessors, not ONE of them felt compelled to conceal the details of their birth, school records, travel history, etc., specifically:

1. Certified copy of original birth certificate (i.e. the 'long form' from the State of Hawaii)
2. Columbia University transcripts
3. Columbia thesis paper
4. Campaign donor analysis requested by 7 major watchdog groups
5. Harvard University transcripts
6. Illinois State Senate records
7. Illinois State Senate schedule
8. Law practice client list and billing records/summary
9. Locations and names of all half-siblings and step-mothers
10. Medical records (only the one page summary released so far)
11. Occidental College Transcripts
12. Parent’s marriage Certificate
13. Record of baptism
14. Selective Service registration records
15. Schedules for trips outside of the United States before 2007
16. Scholarly articles published under his name.
17. Access to his grandmother (Obama’s grandmother has since passed away from cancer)
18. List of all campaign workers that are lobbyists
19. Punahou grade school records

SOURCE

'We The People' hired 0bama and as his employers, we have a right to know just what exactly he's hiding. Unless and until he can prove that he is Constitutionally eligible to serve as President under Article II Section 1 of that document, he is a usurper and his regime is illegal and without any legal authority.

You have to know that if we were talking about (for example) George W. Bush concealing this sort of personal information about himself back in the Fall of 2000, that the media would be hammering him 24/7 to "release the records" but what do we hear from our illustrious '4th Estate' in the case of Barack Hussein 0bama?

Crickets chirping, that's what. And we hear those crickets because the media is so far up 0bama's ass that his tonsils are probably tingling.

Our Republic is all but dead, and not in small part due to the 0bamunist Quislings who continue to enable, empower and make excuses for him.



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[edit on 9/12/2009 by AshleyD]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Well put.

I think a lot of the bile is just many peoples' ways of expressing their frustrations. For the actual, legitimate concerns that people have, there are legal courses for addressing those concerns. For many others who just doesn't like what's going on, there are forum sites all over the internet to spew out hatred and ichor.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Well said!

Politics is really something new to most Americans, and taking into consideration that the very same ones that haven't voted in past elections are the very same ones that are trying to impeach Obama now is laughable.

Where were them when Bush Jr. was elected and re-elected?

People blame Obama for all the current problems but the truth is that past administrations were the ones that caused most, if not all the current problems. By that I'm not implying that Obama is perfect or even good -- that's something for each one to evaluate -- but he's just another president.

And presidents like any intelligent person would know are just puppets, a front for the ones which we can't elect or impeach and that in the end really control the country.

America in general is just learning about politics, and it's only bothering about it now because the past administration was so bad and irresponsible that it got to a point were the american life style was affected.

If most were still allowed to live only caring about their belly buttons without having to do a single thing for the country (like voting) or voicing their opinions on the right time nothing of this would be happening.

I really do find it laughable to a point where it's getting ridiculous.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Guardian, It appears by looking at your past post that all you care about is bashing republicans, if seems that you put "southern" in there because you some hatred towards the south. Just like all your threads in the past this is just out to bash republicans and the same can be said about your future threads.

I honestly don't see that there is any real way to change such deeply held beliefs in people, but it's a great thread anyway. It makes me sick the way people support Rush Limbaugh more than our country and President, and call themselves patriots.

Originally posted by Alien Mind
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Guardian, It appears by looking at your past post that all you care about is bashing republicans, if seems that you put "southern" in there because you some hatred towards the south. Just like all your threads in the past this is just out to bash republicans and the same can be said about your future threads.

I disagree with that, he added southern because, shocker, it's people from the south who are engaging most heavily in these causes, it's southern conservatives. Don't act like that isn't true. It isn't northern liberals who are constantly undermining our President and country.

reply to post by mikerussellus


There were no massive rallies going on in D.C. in which the public railed against government spending before November 2008.

So yes, I have done my research.

Originally posted by BaronVonGodzilla

Originally posted by Alien Mind
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Guardian, It appears by looking at your past post that all you care about is bashing republicans, if seems that you put "southern" in there because you some hatred towards the south. Just like all your threads in the past this is just out to bash republicans and the same can be said about your future threads.

I disagree with that, he added southern because, shocker, it's people from the south who are engaging most heavily in these causes, it's southern conservatives. Don't act like that isn't true. It isn't northern liberals who are constantly undermining our President and country.

It's people from all over the country.. and that kind of talk is just hate.

You people are sad

reply to post by Southern Guardian
Couldn't agree more. The constitution is the law of the land, and we have a chance to change the government in 2010 and again in 2012.
However, all of our elected officials have sworn to protect and defend the constitution against all enemies foriegn and domestic. The current administration, along with a large number of congress, seem intent on dismantling it.
Could this be treason? High crimes and misdemeanors?

Originally posted by Miraj
People are upset that the politicians time and time again have betrayed out basic beliefs and the foundations of this country. They still continue on this path of self destruction. It's not about Obama, it's not about right or left, it's about politicians who don't know where they stand and keep pushing, pushing, pushing the people.

Very well said.

The harder we fight this two party sham, the better chance we have to restore this country to what the constitution intended.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
As for people who say "we're just being persecuted for disagreeing with the president," guess what - I disagree with the president all the time. I hav never been persecuted. Federal agents have never come knocking on my door. You all are going beyond disagreements. You are making false accusations and essentially being the whiny liberals you once loved to rail on.

Excellent post! I, too, disagree with the president and haven't as much as received an email suggesting I tone it down... much less been persecuted.

Originally posted by mikerussellus
Read the threads posted before Nov 2008, and see if you still think that way.

sweatmonicaIdo has been a member since 2003. One of our oldest members. I think he's read a post or two previous to 2008!

Originally posted by badgerprints
Obama didn't "win" he was elected by the constitutional congress.

What kind of a word game is this? He won the election. It's a common phrase. He was Constitutionally elected by the Electoral College and by the popular vote of the people.

These people in DC work for us. We do have the right to call for these public servants to represent their constituency and to take steps to have them removed if they do not perform in the best interests of the citizens.

The first part is true, but the latter? I don't think so. The president can be removed for several reasons, but "not performing in the best interest of the citizens" according to someone's opinion is not one of them. Some people LIKE much of what he's doing. Some think he IS performing in the best interest of the citizens. Your disagreement with that opinion is not a good enough reason to remove him from office. Where you got that idea, I have no clue.

What a president actually accomplishes in that office is what counts.

On that, we do agree. And in a few years, we can finally see how that's coming, but most of the criticisms against him are about what they're just SURE he's GOING to do and what he thinks and how he feels. Oh, not to mention the conspiracy theories that abound about his eligibility.

As I said, there are several reasons to remove a sitting president but these are NOT on that list:

Not performing in the citizens' best interest
NOT making his life an open book
Not showing past school and baptism records
Not liking him
Disagreeing with his policies
Reading his mind
Projecting the future
What he thinks
How he feels
His name
His race
His religion
His opinions
His policies
His politics
Conspiracy Theories
Being a Communist
Being a Socialist (these two fall squarely into the previous category)
Because you don't believe him
Because he hasn't fixed the country in 7 months
Not keeping campaign promises
Making mistakes
Having questionable associations
Being a racist

No matter how many of these you think apply to Obama, they are NOT reasons to impeach a president. The ONLY reasons to impeach a president are "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors". Not performing in the best interest of the citizens doesn't appear.

Originally posted by m5nomad
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how it is that of all of 0bama's 43 predecessors, not ONE of them felt compelled to conceal the details of their birth, school records, travel history, etc., specifically:

Not one of them felt compelled to reveal them either! Have you seen Carter's baptism record? Or George W Bush's grade school records? Nixon's birth certificate? Bush Sr's College transcript? Ford's PARENT's marriage certificate? Clinton's College thesis? Come on!

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
The current administration, along with a large number of congress, seem intent on dismantling it.
Could this be treason? High crimes and misdemeanors?

Neither can you impeach a president for guessing his intent or what it SEEMS like to you.

[edit on 12-9-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by sweatmonicaIdo


September 2008 (therefore, before November), all across the country, not just DC:

www.truemajority.org...

Protests of Bush's bailout.

Also, citizens had been speaking out all through Bush's administration. Please see here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I really don't understand how you, the OP, and many others can claim everyone was silent for eight years and are just now becoming vocal because it's Obama.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
I find it rather bothersom of the willful neglect of the constitution when it doesnt suit the arguments of some folks.

What Constitution? Perhaps the Obama Administration and Congress should read the Constitution and implement it! Why don't you take your Marxist/Socialist drivel to the former Soviet Union where it will be more welcomed.

Originally posted by mikerussellus

Originally posted by OldDragger

You know what? Overthrowing The President ( any President) by violence is a very dangerous game. If you try, be aware that the rest of reserve our right to put you in the Federal Pen, or into the ground. Just so the rules are clear.

I see. Disagree with us and you go to jail.

Nice.

Hammer and Sickle, much?

Gee MISQUOTE MUCH?
How did "overthrow with violence" become "disagree"?
Do YOU see any difference?

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Sorry, read your OP, but I have not a single doubt in my mind that the founding fathers of this country who you were going on about, are rolling in their graves at the thought of Barack Obama being our President. If we could resurrect Washington or Lincoln, sit them in front of a TV, and show them who is running the White House, I honestly think they would start crying at how downhill our country has gone.....the depths it has sunk to.

It's not about politics anymore, it's about "American Idol". The idiot generation that voted him in will one day wake up and see how they helped further plunge this country into the trash heap it is becoming.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
reply to post by mikerussellus

 

There were no massive rallies going on in D.C. in which the public railed against government spending before November 2008.

So yes, I have done my research.

This argument about the past and past Presidents and Administrations and how people reacted or did not react to try to establish some precedent as to the validity of TODAY’S debate is not even an artful dodge when it comes to deflection.

You want to try to establish a precedent of no upheaval during the Bush Administration as being suggestive that the CURRENT debate is invalid.

Let’s hop skip and jump then to the Nixon Administration, another Republican like Bush who routinely faced massive demonstrations by the populace over war and spending to the point that the FBI did fear there was a credible threat of a revolution taking place in the country.

I don’t hear the ‘George Bush did this and George Bush did that’ crowd mention the parallels between Johnson’s a Democrat’s war and spending policies and Nixon a Republican’s war and spending policies that were basically a continuation of Johnson’s policies that resulted in massive protests against Nixon and his Administration for doing the same thing.

This argument that the ‘well no one did anything then crowd so no one can or should be legitimately able to do anything now’ crowd also fails to ever take into account that Bush left office with the lowest approval rating of just about any sitting President ever and Bush left office as a lame duck with all people’s eyes to both the left and the right looking towards the future.

The candidate that won did so on a vague promise of ‘hope and change’ a future of hope and change, not a past of hope and change.

Why is it then that both that candidate once having won, and his supporters are mired in their focus on the past when it comes to their debate on the future.

The election is over, and Obama was too timid and deceptive to actually run a campaign against the Republican candidate but chose to run a campaign based on ‘not being four more years of George Bush’.

The election is all over and for some silly reason that winning candidate and his supporters are constantly still wanting to debate the former President’s policies, and the reactions or lack of them towards them, instead of debating THIS PRESIDENT’S policies and what is effecting the nation NOW.

It is as juvenile an argument and a stances as it is unhelpful and unproductive to solving TODAY’S problems.

The Democrat’s and Obama supporters mired in this pointless and counter productive date either need to:
A. Provide a time machine so this debate can become meaningful

Or

B. Accept that today is September 12, 2009, a new day and a new President that’s getting old as quickly as these types of arguments to establish a precedent based on past failures and inaction as a justification for current and future failures and inaction.

The economy is bad but lots of businesses are giving away free calendars, some people definitely need to get one!

reply to post by useless eaters


Please. People keep spewing every scarey word they can. Facism, racism, dictatorship,socialism, nazism and Obamabots.

Fact is, it is highly offsensive to people who actually live under these situations. It is nothing but a ploy by those who fear change to try to stop the train moving. Spewn by white, banana republic sportin yuppies. My cousins grandmother has an exhibit in the Holocaust museum. She has tattooed numbers on her arm. She lost her entire family in the holocaust. Ask her if she thinks this is a dictatorship.

Fact is, Obama was elected on the platform of health care change. That was numero uno. That and ending the wars. So over half of this country elected him just for this reason.

So he is doing the job he was elected to do. That is VERY constitutional.


The opposition is screaming how we are now going to be paying for the illegal immigrants. If things are so bad here, then why is there such a massive influx of illegal immigrants trying to get to safety? Ask them if they think we are in "danger".

Keep spewing all the big scary words you want. You think because your screaming at the top of your lungs that your winning. Basically everyone else is sitting back quietly and shaking their heads till your tantrum is over.

It is such a bad move on the part of the right or independents or whomever. The last eight years have made them look really bad. But it shouldn't. One president shouldn't be the demise of an entire party. But instead of saying, look, it was a mistake, here is what we can offer or instead of re-inventing yourselves, you actually hype up the same old scare tactics that have been used for decades, you don't bring anything to the table. You don't present change yourselves! Yet you expect people to take you seriously. You try to say, oh nothing is wrong. Well it is because over half the population elected someone to say it is.
You keep hoping that if you yell loud enough that the sky is purple that people will believe you, because you are true patriots. You know who the patriots are? The ones still fighting an illegal war, for mankind, trying to end that war, and do what is right for others no matter the administration or party lines.

So not only is this tactic offensive and belittling, and basically isolates you. It sets you up for failure.

People are reeling from the last eight years. And yes, we can bring it up because we are still fighting the wars and the economy those last eight years brough. Then not only that, you insist on comparing the new administration, to the previous. And then say we can't talk about it.

So instead of coming to the table and saying: oh this is awful, your horrible, you are unconstitutional. Say: this is what WE have to offer that we like, lets discuss. But oh, there is nothing wrong with what we have anyways.


So we have the right persecuting Clinton for messing with an aide, meanwhile all having affairs themselves, and spending billions of dollars of taxpayer money even though no one really cared except the gop. Yet, this process degraded the presidency. Then you have your own nightmare elected, who ran the country into the ground, and degraded the presidency even more.
So someone is elected that people like? And your response is... to degrade the presidency, and accuse him of big and scarey words.

By the time the right and co. is done, the presidency will have been lowered so much, that people will not care who is elected. Meaning that even if a good and decent and capable gop candidate is elected, no one is going to pay any attention to them. And I don't need to hear any rubbish on how all politicians are awful because that is just a scapegoat to say that you don't know what you want, and want to be lazy and not accurately look at the situation.

So lets say that Obama does fail, the opposition has made such a mockery over the position in the last 16 years that no one is going to pay much attention to the new person, whomever they may be. Even if it is a third party.

People keep talking about how rep Wilson is a patriot for yelling you liar at Obama's speech. Yet, as a result, his opponent in the race received $400,000 in 24 hours as a result. People don't want yellers and name callers, they want people to work for them. They want maturity. Obviously, the name calling isn't working.

I don't want to see the gop dissappear. They are the oldest party. They were once a great party. I liked what the poster said, the republicans left the conseratives a long time ago.

I like John McCain. (seems I am the only one). He isn't a maverick. He is old school GOP. He is what the party used to be. Unfortunately, he was doing what the conservatives told him, and people just don't want war anymore. They had it with Bush. If McCain was allowed to be McCain, I think he could of done fairly well.

As others have said, there was a lot of fuss about medicair too. Most of those people who receive medicare too are veterans. They fought for this country, or served in the military. They fought for freedom. Go ahead and try to tell them that medicar is socialism and take it away. See what happens. I dare you.....

My grandfather volunteered two tours in WWII. He was partially deaf as a result of all the gunfire around him. He was one of the first American's in Hitler's barracks when Hitler killed himself. He got a degree, and became a teacher. To finally work for a nice company as an international purchasing manager. He saved a nice nest egg for them to live on. He died 2 years ago of Parkinsons. spent over a year in a hospital. Everything that he worked for and saved was gone, leaving my grandmother with very little to live on but medicare and SS. But from what I hear, she shouldn't be receiving those benefits. Not only did the previous administration block stem cell research to find cures for such wretched diseases, now your saying that people cannot receive help and treatment for when they get them. So exactly why are we here then?

Everyone takes care of this country in one way or another. Paying taxes, teachers, fire fighters, volunteers, mowing your neighbors grass. Is it really so bad to make sure they have the healthcare they need to keep doing what they are doing?