Do I take issue with many of Obama's (and every other president in my lifetime's) policies and actions? Yes. Do I personally believe/feel (not know, necessarily) that our elected representatives and leaders are, whether wittingly or unwittingly, heavily influenced and at times even manipulated by special interests, lobbyists, and other groups or individuals in manners not consistent with the interests of we the people? Yes.

Do I believe that violent revolution, assassination, or a citizen coup of some sort are the only, the best, or even acceptable at all, means of resolving any of the above issues? Absolutely not. Personally, I believe in nonviolent dissent only.

As for impeachment, specifically, impeachment prosecution and removal from office require substantial proof constituting high crimes and misdemeanors. I personally felt (not knew) that such evidence existed in the case of Presidents Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, and Bush Jr. Apparently the Justice Dpt. and congress disagreed with me however, as only one of them had impeachment proceedings initiated against them, and he was acquitted. In particular, it was my personal opinion and feeling that President Bush II's administration's policies, legal interpretations, potential abuses of power, authorization of what amounts to torture in my opinion, and domestic invasions of privacy (again, in my opinion,) were greatly concerning, and may have potentially risen to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors in certain cases. As I said, though, congress and the Justice Dpt. apparently disagreed with me.

I do not yet feel (I don't KNOW though) that Obama's actions or inaction rise to that level. My general impression of the man (admittedly limited to what the media allows us to see of him) is that, as with almost anyone, he believes what he is doing is right. Then again, so did both Bushes, Clinton, and Reagan. I disagree with and find cause to be concerned in all these presidencies, including Obama's thus far.

That's a far cry from me wanting anything bad to happen to the man, though. I had nothing but vehement contempt for 99% of Bush II's policies, and I still wouldn't wish ill on him. Call me crazy; I just don't believe in recriminations and vengeance, let alone violence.

I feel the same way about Obama.

I think you missed the point. It is not about anything other than following the Constitution of the USA in that if he was legitimately born in the USA and on USA soil at the time he took his very first breath then end of story. However, since the administration seems to have something to hide then naturally citizens who wish to uphold the US Constitution need to be informed of whether he is or is not a NATURAL born citizen.
So, before you get on your soap box, remember, it is about not breaking the law of our land. Anyone who cannot understand that is not an American citizen either. So stop making it bipartisan is should be any red blooded American's duty to feel satisfied that the Constitution is being adhered to.

Originally posted by dooper
a damn foreigner as a father,

That about sums up the level of intellect expressed in much of this debate. Oops, did I say debate? Wrong again.....all rhetoric, all hyperbole, slogans a'plenty....

"Deny Ignorance", and referring to other people as "damn foreigners". That's shameful.

This could be the most useless thread I have ever seen on ATS. And posting on it makes me just as useless I suppose. I like to believe that most of us on here are past the fact that Obama will be a good prez. The evidence is CLEARLY stacked against that. OP, you can't tell me you are still stuck on the left-right paradigm crap. Those "rules", if they ever did, may have applied before but not now and more that likely never again. We are not republic anymore. And the constitution doesn't matter to anyone we have in charge. SO WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU WANT TO USE IT TO DEFEND THEM?!
Those days are over. We have crossed the line and there is no return. The next time a new president (or whatever) is in office this will be a very very changed country. Maybe for good maybe not. I hope nothing happens to Obama I really do. Because that would only divide us and put the zombies back to sleep for good. I am happy to see less and less of these type of topics popping up.

Ah, the utter hypocrisy of the faux patriots.

In a post this........

Originally posted by dooper
I don't think our other Presidents had a damn foreigner as a father....

Very next post...........

Originally posted by dooper
I do understand that early on, many of our Presidents and their families were foreign born.

It would seem the extreme neocon right wing fringe is so rattled they can't think straight.


And don't think think your NUMEROUS veiled guises wishing harm and indifference to the POTUS has gone without notice. Adding the list of politicians assassinated was a nice touch.

You prove the point that the concern over the hate and violent threats spewed by armed militia groups are warranted. ( Like the example below.)

So if he goes down - like I give a a damn.

Perhaps there are some Civil War Reenactor groups seeking new members in your area. You might be able to satisfy your hunger for violence.

Or perhaps at the very least a Renaissance Festival. Village idiots are often in high demand.

BTW, as always awesome thread SG.


[edit on 12-9-2009 by kinda kurious]

This is my favorite quote,
"Why should I trade one tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000 tyrants one mile away? An elected legislature can trample a man's rights as easily as a king can."


and it is what happend to this country along time ago , the OP needs to understand critisicm is probally one of the greatest powers and rights a free nation has.

The majority of Americans don't care where Obama was born. The reason is because most people saw the fairly thorough destruction of the Constitution under Bush, anyway.

If this were just about strict adherence to the Constitution, where were the Birthers when Bush was grossly violating the Constitution and calling it 'just a god damn piece of paper?"

The Birthers are now pretending to stand on principal regarding The Constitution, yet they aren't suggesting that Bush be punished for the blatant trashing of The Constitution in the first place. This is why Birthers are essentially seen as little more than right-wing racist hypocrites.

I had hoped after overthrowing Bush, that we would have seen the last of these patriots.

For republicans, the definition of patriot is

Patriot: Violent gun brandishing redneck from one of the red states such as georgia, or texas, predominately drives large 4x4 trucks and does not believe in global warming. Along with environmental destruction and killing off woodland critters, in their spare time they enjoy invading other countries and holding seperation from the usa rallys.


How anyone, can vote for a republican, is beyond me...

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Is what you consider following the will of the founding fathers? Overthrowing a fairly elected president candidate on the basis of your own personal suspcions, theories, hatred? Where did this mentality come from?

I believe this mentality came from the previous 8 years, along with the many years of Party Politics before that. It's really really hard to have "your guy" in office and then lose it. Republicans got used to the idea of making gay marriage and abortion illegal. They could almost taste it. Of course, it was never going to happen, but the Republican leadership convinced them that it might. The church was strong in government and evangelicals had control within their grasp (even though they started to realize that they'd been used toward the end...)

And giving all that up to a liberal Democrat!?!?!? And a black one at that? A highly intelligent lawyer who eats arugula, a man with the name of Barack Hussein Obama??? What kind of an American is THAT?? Oh! What a heartbreaker! It's just too much to deal with. He MUST be a usurper! Oh, Rush, Sean and Glenn... Please SAVE US!!!!!!!!!

It's just too much to take. That's where I think this mentality comes from. And I think it does no good whatsoever to try to understand it further. I have been trying to for months and even when I ask a straight question, like What do Republicans Want in the health care bill, I can't get a straight answer. They want it to fail. That's all...

Originally posted by hisshadow
For republicans, the definition of patriot is

Patriot: Violent gun brandishing redneck from one of the red states such as georgia, or texas, predominately drives large 4x4 trucks and does not believe in global warming. Along with environmental destruction and killing off woodland critters, in their spare time they enjoy invading other countries and holding seperation from the usa rallys.

Careful, your uninformed bias is showing.

Originally posted by hisshadow
I had hoped after overthrowing Bush, that we would have seen the last of these patriots.

For republicans, the definition of patriot is

Patriot: Violent gun brandishing redneck from one of the red states such as georgia, or texas, predominately drives large 4x4 trucks and does not believe in global warming. Along with environmental destruction and killing off woodland critters, in their spare time they enjoy invading other countries and holding seperation from the usa rallys.


How anyone, can vote for a republican, is beyond me...

Great post. Star from me. I would merely like to add they are generally not big tippers and usually exceed their tattoo to tooth ratio. There, that should do it. I jest.

Originally posted by OldDragger

You know what? Overthrowing The President ( any President) by violence is a very dangerous game. If you try, be aware that the rest of reserve our right to put you in the Federal Pen, or into the ground. Just so the rules are clear.

I see. Disagree with us and you go to jail.

Nice.

Hammer and Sickle, much?

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Lets look at past examples in history:
-Hitler
-Stalin
-Atauturk

Your comparing Obama's administration to some of the most horrific men in our history. It is indeed highly offensive, especially to the victims who suffered under those men, that a petty sour grape compares his ideological frustrations of today to the mass murders of yesterday. Very poor attempt.

[edit on 11-9-2009 by Southern Guardian]

I see this sort of argument all the time. Hitler wasn't the "most horrific men in our history" when he came to power. Only in hindsight can we see how truly evil he was. You think if the German people really knew where Hitler was leading them they would have followed?

The concern, and legitimate concern at that, is that smooth talking Obama is taking us down that same path. Remember Hitler was well liked before he destroyed Europe and millions of lives.


[edit on 12-9-2009 by 2 cents]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


A highly intelligent lawyer who eats arugula, a man with the name of Barack Hussein Obama???

Pardon my cherry picking but, that line says it all for me. I now fully support Obama because he eats arugula. Did you know that Bush got elected because he eats rutabaga? I bet Obama does not like collard greens and black eyed peas. I like collard greens and black eyed peas. Perhaps I will run for office.

Obama has no experience beyond Chicago politics and ACORN thievery but he likes arugula. Let's make the man President and see what happens.

Obama's gig is up and the nation is now aware of all of his BS. My die hard retired democrat in-laws voted for him because they believed in him. They are now very disappointed and feel betrayed by the man of empty promises and no conviction.

[edit on 12-9-2009 by jibeho]

[edit on 12-9-2009 by jibeho]

[edit on 12-9-2009 by jibeho]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

It's just too much to take. That's where I think this mentality comes from. And I think it does no good whatsoever to try to understand it further. I have been trying to for months and even when I ask a straight question, like What do Republicans Want in the health care bill, I can't get a straight answer. They want it to fail. That's all...

I think you've greatly exaggerated the mentality of many people who are against Obama and his policies for the worst and lumped everyone into a category they don't all fit in. Not everyone who dislikes him and his policies is against liberals, Democrats, or educated black men. Assuming that they all are is what causes threads like this one to be posted and causes confusion when it comes to what people think and want.

I've seen your thread, but I'm not a Republican so I haven't responded to it. Not that I think that me not answering caused a lack of straight answers, I'm not that full of myself.