Overthrow the democratically elected president, "how patriotic"

Originally posted by EMPIRE
Jenna, I understand that but people need to realize that the only thing that changes are the faces in the game, nothing else. Part of being one of "4-P's" (politician, pimp, preacher and pusher) is to sell pills, creams and dreams. Their mission is to sell you feelings and emotions, self esteem in many cases, and people gobble it up hook, line and sinker. I blame the people for being complacent and not taking a stand, but how much of a stand can a divided people make?

And what of the ones who are trying to take a stand? The ones who are labeled and looked down upon for speaking out? The ones who've finally said enough is enough, we won't put up with this same song and dance anymore? They know that the faces are the only thing that changes. They know that it's just more of the same. Yet they are the ones being dumped on because they dare to speak out. Seems like a load full of hypocrisy laden horse crap to me.

And who exactly is it that's dividing us? The media. That's who. But some are so convinced that their choice of media wouldn't lie to them that they can't see the forest for the trees. If their media choice doesn't say that those who are speaking out are right they won't believe it no matter what anyone says. You can't make people listen, no matter how hard you try.

reply to post by EMPIRE


Voting 3rd party sends a message.

I rather have this flake then continue to be a slave to the elite.

And they aren't all flakes I voted for the guy Ron Paul backed, that was good enough for me.

Oh my god the thick-headed responses on this thread! Nothing that can be learned on this website will ever matter if you can't get past the left-right thing. I swear people. There are many many things we can speculate about. Mostly, we take a shot in the dark because no one really knows what will happen for sure. But what we DO know for sure is, because it is shoved in our face at every opportunity they get, this thing ain't workin anymore. It is broke and they with our help broke it. It was a nice concept, but it was doomed from the start because of greed and some underneath things we still aren't clear on yet. This we KNOW. Obama and the people who are behind him used the voters. BOTH SIDES. You are playing along with their script. Just stop it. Nothing rash or violent need be done. Simply to recognize. That is the first step. An apparent monster for some of you.

Originally posted by Jenna
Sorry moving the goal posts

Moving goal posts? I'll repeat my question to you. Where were the tea party protests during Bushes spending? Im not concerned about the Ron Paul march, Im concerned about these tea party protests against Bushes spending. Where Jenna?

How about as people

How about Bush supporters, Ron Paul supporters, neocons and libertarians, walking hand in hand in these tea parties. How about those people? I will stick to addressing those people, including you.

So since you saw a few signs

Afew signs? Right. Since I saw afew signs Jenna.

Yes you are.

Wonderful, since I am tell the white nationalists, the confederates and the Beck supporters to put down their signs, I dont need them to carry them anymore.

It's a very accurate comparison. Standing in a crowd of people

So this is just a crowd of people Jenna? Or protestors marching protestors against this administration. Whose moving goal posts again?

Just because we seek the same outcomes

You think the white nationalists seek the same outcome as you? You think the woman with the confederate flag seeks the same outcome? I dont.

People who have attended tea parties refer to themselves

I dont care what they intended to mean, they ultimately associated themselves with a sexual slang term and its really not my problem if thats what the name will be associated. Rightfully so I will associate the term tea protestor with that slang term.

And my point still stands.

What point? That I am wrong to call the protestors Bush, Ron Paul and conservative supporters? Is that your point?

No I don't actually

No Jenna, Im sure you had nothing to do with the tea party protests. Just a play of words on your part. Mind you, thats your claim, not mine.

[edit on 14-9-2009 by Southern Guardian]

reply to post by dooper


wow i voted for him and i dont work for the media. he was much more qualified than his opponent. Mccain couldnt even run a campaign, and Palin was as politically deep as my dogs water bowel.

Originally posted by dtice
you can't get past the left-right thing.

I hate it when we have you people gate crash threads like this. I dont care what you think about whats what, this is a political forum where we debate topics regarding politics, and naturally its going to have left right arguments. If you dont like it, go across to the NWO forum where your most welcome to post your conspiracies, some of us actually have opinions here.

SG

reply to post by Southern Guardian


I have a right to post my opinion on this or any other subject. My response was relevant. And there are more of us "gatecrashers" here than just me.
That being said, my post came out as a frustrated attack. We all have the right here to believe as we choose. If you ever do decide to explore this way of thought then you will understand where the frustration comes from. No hard feelings.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

So none of these individuals care about the constitution including you? Please explain.

When you refer to “these individuals”, are you referring to people on this board or TPTB?

My OP was clear. If conservatives, libertarians and what not were given the chance to over throw this man hypothetically, they would do this against the guidelines of the constitution.

My OP was clear. It does not matter if their attempts are against the guidelines of the constitution, because the people in power don’t give a damn about the constitution, nor are we playing by the rules outlined in the constitution.

Thats my point, you are no supporter of the constitution if you do so selfishly for your own ideological beliefs.

I understand your point, but the people in power are not supporters of the constitution. In addition, I’ll even go as far as to say many constitutionalists aren’t in support of the constitution but seek to spread their own agenda.

Since you confirmed that this is where you stand then atleast I know the priority of where the constitution really sits for some people.

To me, the constitution is a piece of paper that happens to be a work in progress (WIP). Even though it is a WIP, it means nothing to me, as I do not hold the belief that a piece of paper gives me rights, nor am I of the belief that a piece of paper protects me.

I dont care if you think the man didnt wear an american flag pin, dont care if his policies make you "angry", he was elected president constitutionally and democratically. If you call for the mans impeachment put the constitution and those "rights" where your mouth is. Pure and simple.

All of that is great but not applicable to me as I’m not one of the sheeple that believes in something as absurd as the power of the vote (I’m talking in regards to the office of presidency.) I know the man was selected, not elected, by the global elite, so all the talk about the constitution, impeachment, etc is a waste of everyone’s time.

Originally posted by Jenna

And what of the ones who are trying to take a stand? The ones who are labeled and looked down upon for speaking out? The ones who've finally said enough is enough, we won't put up with this same song and dance anymore? They know that the faces are the only thing that changes. They know that it's just more of the same. Yet they are the ones being dumped on because they dare to speak out. Seems like a load full of hypocrisy laden horse crap to me.

Jenna, there is a difference between saying those things and actually doing it. In our society, more specifically in this country, the people are too comfortable and only tend to speak out when their comfort zones are challenged or threatened. We had two critical periods within the last fifty years where we could have turned things around for the better and we dropped the ball. Now all we can do is talk about change, but what change can we possibly make if we’re falling for the same madness every four years?

And who exactly is it that's dividing us? The media. That's who.

The media is a tool used to divide the people. Other things used to divide are race, economic class, educational background, political party, religion, lifestyle choices, etc. Yes, media is a very powerful tool, but who is pulling the media strings?

But some are so convinced that their choice of media wouldn't lie to them that they can't see the forest for the trees. If their media choice doesn't say that those who are speaking out are right they won't believe it no matter what anyone says. You can't make people listen, no matter how hard you try.

Again, this goes back to comfort zone and having blinders on. Certain groups of people are up in arms and worried about all of this, but this is simply the tip of the iceberg. This country had the chance to rectify the problems, it really did, but the people chose to remain oblivious to it all. In fact, the people are so far-gone we can call them zombies.

Originally posted by Balone
reply to post by EMPIRE

 

Voting 3rd party sends a message.

I rather have this flake then continue to be a slave to the elite.

And they aren't all flakes I voted for the guy Ron Paul backed, that was good enough for me.

What type of message does voting 3rd party send? You don’t think the elite have enough power to manipulate 3rd party candidates? This system is controlled by the elite, and until the system is damaged beyond repair, and a new system implemented, subjugation of the public will continue as it always has. You can vote for anyone all you like. Vote for Jesus, Santa, EMPIRE, Ron Paul, George Bush, Barry O, Abe Lincoln, Jim Jones, Super Mario, Prince, the owners of ATS, Hulk Hogan, Barbara Boxer, Richard Steele, John McCain, or the Zodiac Killer. The ONLY thing that matters is who THEY say is going to fill the office.

Originally posted by EMPIRE
When you refer to “these individuals”, are you referring to people on this board or TPTB?

Im really refering to you and those you claim to agree with you. You stated "this isnt about constitutional rights" so then what is it about? You want to overthrow the president of the United states completely ignoring the constitutional guidelines?

It does not matter if their attempts are against the guidelines of the constitution, because the people in power don’t give a damn about the constitution,

You claim the people in power dont give a damn about the constitution and yet you yourself dont give a damn either? If somebody was fairly elected vai the constitution, and you overthrew them due to your own suspicions, against the will of the people, of the electors, of the constitution, are you upholding the will of the founding fathers? How can you accuse those in power of ignoring the constitution when you yourself disregard it for your own conclusions? You are no different the the enemy you claim to oppose.

I understand your point, but the people in power are not supporters of the constitution.

You claim the people in power are not supporters of the constitution, and because of this claim you use this as excuse to ignore the constitution itself. That is nothing of what a constitutionalist would do.

I agree, there are those in government who do not favour the constitution, however you have an obligation as an american to uphold the constitution and reference its guidelines if given the opportunity to impeach. You are really no different from those who trample of the constitution if you ignore it for your own personal conclusions.

To me, the constitution is a piece of paper that happens to be a work in progress

Well then you are no supporter for the "republic". If this is the case, what are you a supporter of?

[edit on 14-9-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by dtice
I have a right to post my opinion.

You have a right to your opinion but your posting off topic. The OP regards the constitution and those rights passed on regarding impeachment, removal and the decision making in government. Your not contributing to this thread by posting off topic comments.

My response was relevant.

Your response was "I dont care about political debates everythings sham" which is irrelevant to this topic. It also begs me to ask what your doing participating in these debates and interrupting people if you think its a sham.

[edit on 14-9-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Its rather interesting. I was reading an article by Ron Paul and his solution to the financial crises. So what is his solution? To do nothing. Let the market be and ofcourse continue to spend $515 billion on the military industrial complex a year. Change the system but do nothing to solve the problem. Do nothing to curb the increase in debt. This is Ron Paul, and his answer is to do nothing.

Its ironic, folks here complain Obama hasnt "changed the worst financial crises since the great depression in 9 months", I wonder how folks would be talking if Ronnie got in and implemented his do nothing scheme, would they then be accusing him of "doing nothing"? I dont think I have to answer that.

They wouldnt be complaining that the flat tax system was never ratified as well. Just goes to show ya.

I wonder if anybody could tell us here whether the market would have corrected itself and avoided a depression all those months back. Now I agree with Ronnie, our debt is skyrocketing, but his do-nothing solution really doesnt solve that issue. Merely changing a system will not bring down the debt either, especially when you have folks complaining the proportion of taxes gone to pay off debt.... while complaining that debt needs to go down. So whats the solution from Paulers on that? Have a revolution and dont pay any more debt. Wonderful, just like that, walk away from out debt, and Im sure those foreign owners of our debt will walk away as well... and Im sure those who owe us debt around the world will continue to "pay back us back for their debt".

Its amazing, the praise Ronnie gets on this forum and yet the sheer hypocrisy. But atleast the mans honest about where he stands, Ill give him that. He admits to being a "do-nothing" candidate for president. So, in a sense Paulers and tea party protestors blame this president for doing nothing, then doing too much, then praising Ron Pauls solution for doing nothing to solve the crises of debt. Makes sense.

[edit on 13-9-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Ha ha ha Ron Paul has more sense in his pinky then a thousand Barack insane Obama's. For one thing, Ron Paul wouldn't be shoving 3500 page bills down everyone’s throats telling them they have 15 minutes to read them and then we need them signed. He would have REALLY got rid of the lobbyist's rather than just talk about it.

He would have wanted an audit of the fed to get to the bottom of who at the top was to blame and he would have most likely begun talks about getting rid of them. Ron Paul in a speech before congress in 2005 predicted everything that has happened to this country, the advance of Russia into Georgia, the banks collapse, $4.00 gas prices and a general implosion of America by the end of the decade. He is more honest then Obama and a helluva lot more trustworthy, and voters in both parties seem to like him. Unlike Barack Obama, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, Ron Paul wasn't on the acorn dole or was he helping to create the Fannie Mae Freddie Mac mess like those other three.


You can't even compare Obama to the kind of man Ron Paul is.

Ron Paul doesn't hang out with terrorists. And radicals. Where Obama has and does only now it is kept on the down low. Ron Paul was never a member of the socialist party, Obama is, but more than anything else, Ron Paul would have done something so extraordinary, So in line with, “We The People”, so above board and honest, So gracious a gesture of trust and so dis-arming and such a first class act of someone with the words Honorable on their stationery, it backs up that title like nothing Obama ever would or even could. This one small simple act of his own volition to satisfy any doubts as to his rightful place in the oval office, he would do using the only means of slaying any and all doubt which is by NOT creating more leaving many Americans feeling they have been conned.

Ron Paul, would have shown us his “Original Vaulted Birth Certificate”


[edit on 14-9-2009 by Stylez]

Originally posted by bigshow
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

You are incorrect, there is a recall process for all elected officials in the house and the senate, which I believe we should recall every single one of them. Once that is done and "Good" people are put into office that will actually represent the PEOPLE as they are supposed to, I believe the president would find himself in a very hard spot to have his "will" done in anyway in our house and senate. Maybe at that time, the people along with our elected representatives will get it straight that they work for us, not the other way around. I believe part of my paycheck goes to employing them, along with anyone else who receives a paycheck. Therefore logically we employ them, and at least in my state, employment is at will.

Their is no such thing as a recall for public officials on the federal level.

There are only two means of removing them from office. One is fast but you better damn sure be correct that all your "i's dotted and all your "t's" crossed. The other would take so long and is unlikely to get any traction with so many democrats in control.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by dtice
I have a right to post my opinion.

You have a right to your opinion but your posting off topic. The OP regards the constitution and those rights passed on regarding impeachment, removal and the decision making in government. Your not contributing to this thread by posting off topic comments.

My response was relevant.

Your response was "I dont care about political debates everythings sham" which is irrelevant to this topic. It also begs me to ask what your doing participating in these debates and interrupting people if you think its a sham.

[edit on 14-9-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Well actually they DO have a good case to impeach him and it is Obama himself that handed it over to us ironically, using his COLB has the proof written in it, but seeing your answers to this question before, I'd rather not re-read them. They get tired, old and you are incorrect whenever you recite the same comeback. It is, in your case however the best and only comeback one with so much devotion to Obama could make and still know he is a liar about it.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Patriotism is for your COUNTRY not your GOVERNMENT!

As an outsider, I can understand the sentiment often seen on these boards. Bush should have been ousted.

And now, I have to say, as long as Obama is supporting the illegal actions started by Bush, he should be too.

The Patriot Act, Failing to investigate 9/11, not holding people accountable for torture, not limiting the Fed, bailing out the wealthy at the expense of the people, spying on the people, holding "lists" of people and restricting their freedom...

Bush was as bad as Obama, the only difference is that Obama can claim that Bush started it.

I agree that democratic decision making should hold power over any collection of free-thinking minority. We can all have an opinion, and that is exactly what it is. But there will come a time when the majority of the people all wish for the same thing, and if the government refuse to allow for new elections or act against that majority, ousting the leadership is utterly justified.

Experience and history show that every modern government wilfully ignores the voice of the people. They consistently delay and block the changes that the people want. This is not democracy, it's a dictatorship disguised as democracy.
When the so-called free media are one-sided, when the governmental parties are almost identical in actions (if not in rhetoric), and when the power of the nation comes down to the decisions of an external and secretive elite, the people have a duty to remove that government and the perverted machine behind it.

Again, Patriotism is about being proud and supportive of your country and people. It is not about blindly supporting any government currently in power.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Again, Patriotism is about being proud and supportive of your country and people. It is not about blindly supporting any government currently in power.

Could have fooled me living thru this last decade -

Seems to me it changes when it is convenient - I think if you dig a little deeper you will see that is OP's suspicion...

[edit on 14-9-2009 by mental modulator]

As I continue to read, often in dismay, at both the supreme intellect and downright ignorance pontificated in this thread. It strikes me as curiously ironic that so many who banter "The Rule of Law" and spout off about The Constitution while levying innuendo, supposition and opinion fail to realize one simple fact.

Despite nothing more than ALLEGATIONS & ACCUSATIONS regarding President Obama's presumed misdeeds or eligibility to serve I am reminded of this handy little mechanism called "Presumption of Innocence until Proven Guilty."

Until such a time when any of the "Birther" claims actually stick or evidence is presented within a US Court of Law to the satisfaction of the Supreme Court or jury regarding guilt or innocence any further discussion seems rather moot.

In the irrelevant court of public opinion the ranks of Jr. Jurisprudence, Fake Patriots and Wanna be Magistrates are moot.

My suggestion: Grab a 6 pack of Sam Adams, sit back and enjoy he ride. Please remember the concept of "The Good Guys" vs. "The Bad Guys" is relative and we are all Americans. Sure Revolution was a founding principle of our being as a nation but I doubt most of you could stomach the act of true sacrifice.

Don't worry you can bring about change in the next election. Preferably with your vote and not your musket.

Until that time, let our President do the job he was elected to do.

Once again, here are the tallies:

OBAMA:
Electoral=365
Percent=53%
Total Votes=66,882,230

McCAIN:
Electoral=173
Percent=46%
Total Votes=58,343,671
Source

There are no "do-overs." Have a nice term.

Rock on.............................GLORY DAYS. Bruce and Billy Rock for Obama!




[edit on 14-9-2009 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by Stylez

Originally posted by bigshow
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

You are incorrect, there is a recall process for all elected officials in the house and the senate, which I believe we should recall every single one of them. Once that is done and "Good" people are put into office that will actually represent the PEOPLE as they are supposed to, I believe the president would find himself in a very hard spot to have his "will" done in anyway in our house and senate. Maybe at that time, the people along with our elected representatives will get it straight that they work for us, not the other way around. I believe part of my paycheck goes to employing them, along with anyone else who receives a paycheck. Therefore logically we employ them, and at least in my state, employment is at will.

Their is no such thing as a recall for public officials on the federal level.

There are only two means of removing them from office. One is fast but you better damn sure be correct that all your "i's dotted and all your "t's" crossed. The other would take so long and is unlikely to get any traction with so many democrats in control.

Please do some research before you post. Look at this information

www.ncsl.org...

There is the answer to your answer.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


This post right here pretty much summed it up for me, and proved me right. It doesn't matter what anyone says you won't listen anyway. You and I have been round and round on this issue several times and the only reason I keep trying is because I keep hoping that maybe this time someone will get through to you. Let me know when that closed-mind of yours opens up so we can have a serious discussion that is void of deflection and insults.


There is none so blind as he who will not see.

Originally posted by EMPIRE
Jenna, there is a difference between saying those things and actually doing it. In our society, more specifically in this country, the people are too comfortable and only tend to speak out when their comfort zones are challenged or threatened. We had two critical periods within the last fifty years where we could have turned things around for the better and we dropped the ball. Now all we can do is talk about change, but what change can we possibly make if we’re falling for the same madness every four years?

Like I said, what of the ones who are trying? Since the ball got dropped before that automatically means it'll get dropped again?

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

This post right here pretty much summed it up for me, and proved me right. It doesn't matter what anyone says you won't listen anyway. You and I have been round and round on this issue several times and the only reason I keep trying is because I keep hoping that maybe this time someone will get through to you. Let me know when that closed-mind of yours opens up so we can have a serious discussion that is void of deflection and insults.


There is none so blind as he who will not see.

Jenna I have been following and starring your posts throughout the thread and you truly have done an exemplary job at responding to each and every ascertion and query put to you, with mannered, and intelligent responses and credible information.

Some people are so irretraceable in their positions that they just basically follow the same old script with the same old talking points and every time you counter that with something lucid and intelligent they just use that as a platform to launch into their next segue to their next batch of talking points. It’s not so much about conducting an honest debate, but taking advantage of an honest debate as a means to broadcast their agenda and talking points.

For those immersed into the Obama Cult of Personality everything must in their minds be about their beloved leader.
It’s all part of their hero cult worship where in their minds it is utterly impossible for it not to be about their beloved leader because everything in their narrow little tightly defined world is about their beloved leader.

Reason and logic goes out the window to be replaced by adoration and devotion.

Obama of course should be so lucky that all this fuss and hoopla is simply about him. Yet in the mind of his supplicants and worshipers it’s impossible for them to believe it’s not all about him, because all they are themselves is all about him.

The good news is that you put a lot of great information out there for people sitting on the fence and those with a true mind to listen and to that end, their own game backfires on them. Intelligent and reasoned people see faulty circular logic for what it is, and the more they espouse it, the more damage they do to their own agenda and cause.

The choir and the cult love and applaud them for their efforts, the rest just scratch their heads in wonder, and realize in the process that the danger they represent to good government is all the greater for their efforts.

You did an awesome job on this thread Jenna, but there is no way anyone but Southern Guardian will ever get through to him, even if Obama himself told him it is all a lie, he would make up a reason to dismiss that too and just keep on going on. He’s in love and you know what they say it’s a many splendid thing!


[edit on 14/9/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]