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Overthrow the democratically elected president, "how patriotic"

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posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by mental modulator
 


Here is perhaps what you fail to see, working for the state, is working for the state.

Retrofitting a bridge does not create an exportable product that generates wealth. If people aren't falling off the bridge, and the bridge hasn't collapsed, it's not broke, so why are we fixing it?

If 25 people are employed on the construction of retrofitting the bridge through a private contractor and subcontractor dollars to donuts says half of them will be undocumented workers.

These government initiatives do not create revenue, they simply spend revenue that's already been created, through taxing it, or borrowing it, for the tax payers to later pay it back, to in most cases accomplish nothing.

It is a temporary way to pay people that is little different than welfare and once again has people working for the state, the state by putting it out for bid is simply rigging who the contract will ultimately go to through political patronage.

The government is broken, and while I appreciate you don't want to be Chicken Little the SKY IS ACTUALLY FALLING!

Wasteful public works projects will not fix the economy but simply put more of a drain on it. It does not create long term jobs, it does not assure that the jobs go to citizens, and they do not create on going revenue that leads to ongoing secure living wage jobs.

It's simply another way to enrich the entrenched interests through awarding contracts to preferred vendors, because of preferred ownership of said vendors, and how they contribute monetarily and with other resources to the rigged political process in return.

It really is that bad. The largest manufacturing segment really has been communized and your evidence to refute it is how there are state jobs available.

I mean no disrespect but is there any chance we could get you modulating on a non Disney frequency?

Please Kenneth?




[edit on 13/9/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]


You chose the frequency, convenient to forget who framed this discussion and picked the station a Mick?



Retrofitting a bridge does not create an exportable product that generates wealth. If people aren't falling off the bridge, and the bridge hasn't collapsed, it's not broke, so why are we fixing it?


Investing in infrastructure does not generate wealth? I'll be damned, cause I thought
the contractors and workers might use the money to pay bills, put food on the table
or save it to invest it in a new venture.

But it does not count if it does not expand GDP, miraculously that money it is NOT sent off to bill collectors, it does not go to the retention of employees and it will not be accepted at the local grocery store. Rather, these pay checks dissolve the moment they are placed in the back pocket, which might explain how a 100 year old bridge will re bolt itself when its good and ready

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are spending NOW to offset unemployment in an attempt to slow the systemic crash
of the entire economic model Hoover - retraction and expansion are antonyms.

Donald, I suggest if you believe that free market capitalism is ignored supper hero
that you put your money where your mouth is; you be the light you are looking for
and bring the jobs back


Here's your chance to fight the socialism's and create real WEALTH by golly!

us.etrade.com...




posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by xmotex
 


Fair enough and the truth is the debate degrades rapidly when you move away from the issues to questioning individual posters motivations.

I agree. I am innocent in that I don't vote for anybody, and if every one stopped voting for these imbeciles in Washington people could then realize the truth. The Electoral College will still vote who ever it wants in to office.

In my humble oppinion the whole political process is a dog and pony show simply designed to get people to argue with and dislike each other.

One of the ongoing discussions of the thread was and has been how the constitution fell out of use and has been illegally ammended and part of that discussion is what was in the original constitution.

It's my personal oppinion which is legally justifiable that at the point that the Constitution was violated at the onset of the Civil War and the lawful Congress disolved and an unlawful Congress began passing laws without a quorum and the President's office had become a dictatorship that instead of imposing new laws through force of arms on the subdued South after the war, a new constitutional convention should have been held creating a new constitution that would actually reflect laws not cooerced through armed intimidation but through mutual agreement which was of course what the democratic process was all about.

I don't vote because I know from firsthand experience how the real voting process is actually run, and by whom it is run, and why. My vote is worthless because it has long been determined who will be President or Congress Person or Senator long before the election even begins.

Obama was tapped to be the next President by the Powers that Be in 2004 when they had him give the Key Note Speech at the Democratic Convention in 2004. Had they Powers that Be wanted another Republican at that time to become the next President in 2008, they would have not had Arnold give the Republican Key Note Speech in 2004 because it's a well documented fact that he is not a naturual citizen. Where as it was a very little known fact, and now an obscured fact that Obama was not a natural citizen. The Powers that Be groom, expose and promote who they want in key positions, fund them and provide them media, and feed them issues long before their canditacies are even announced.

Voting is an utter waste of time, so is the left/right partisan political argument, so is believing that the Constitution that has not been abided by since 1861 is going to suddenly come back in style, and hundreds of thousands of illegal laws under the United States Codes are coming to suddenly come off the books.

In the end the reality is if you are arguing the left/right paradigm you really are just arguing for the sake of arguing, and it often does just degrade to personal attacks on those particpating in the debate by those participating in the debate.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by xmotex
 


Fair enough and the truth is the debate degrades rapidly when you move away from the issues to questioning individual posters motivations.

I agree. I am innocent in that I don't vote for anybody, and if every one stopped voting for these imbeciles in Washington people could then realize the truth. The Electoral College will still vote who ever it wants in to office.

In my humble oppinion the whole political process is a dog and pony show simply designed to get people to argue with and dislike each other.

One of the ongoing discussions of the thread was and has been how the constitution fell out of use and has been illegally ammended and part of that discussion is what was in the original constitution.

It's my personal oppinion which is legally justifiable that at the point that the Constitution was violated at the onset of the Civil War and the lawful Congress disolved and an unlawful Congress began passing laws without a quorum and the President's office had become a dictatorship that instead of imposing new laws through force of arms on the subdued South after the war, a new constitutional convention should have been held creating a new constitution that would actually reflect laws not cooerced through armed intimidation but through mutual agreement which was of course what the democratic process was all about.

I don't vote because I know from firsthand experience how the real voting process is actually run, and by whom it is run, and why. My vote is worthless because it has long been determined who will be President or Congress Person or Senator long before the election even begins.

Obama was tapped to be the next President by the Powers that Be in 2004 when they had him give the Key Note Speech at the Democratic Convention in 2004. Had they Powers that Be wanted another Republican at that time to become the next President in 2008, they would have not had Arnold give the Republican Key Note Speech in 2004 because it's a well documented fact that he is not a naturual citizen. Where as it was a very little known fact, and now an obscured fact that Obama was not a natural citizen. The Powers that Be groom, expose and promote who they want in key positions, fund them and provide them media, and feed them issues long before their canditacies are even announced.

Voting is an utter waste of time, so is the left/right partisan political argument, so is believing that the Constitution that has not been abided by since 1861 is going to suddenly come back in style, and hundreds of thousands of illegal laws under the United States Codes are coming to suddenly come off the books.

In the end the reality is if you are arguing the left/right paradigm you really are just arguing for the sake of arguing, and it often does just degrade to personal attacks on those particpating in the debate by those participating in the debate.


I wish you would have chosen this frequency for our little back and forth...



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


No investing in infrastructure that produces and creates nothing does not generate wealth, as I said before, it spends wealth.

Does a bridge make widgets? Does a park make donuts? Of course not, and the reality is all these things are already being taken care of on a State level to begin with. They are already being paid for by State taxes to begin with.

Please explain to me which road cooks a hamburger? Which bridge sews a shirt? Which park farms beef? Which Library makes furniture?

Investing in infrastructure when the infrastructure is already working and in good order during an economic crisis is like loosing your job and going out and buying a new living room furniture set...

Not to smart!



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


I am still waiting for you to realize that runaway government spending of existing revenue in to something that does not generate additional revenue does not actually fix an economy but further hampers it.

You don't seem to get that redoing a bridge that is working fine already is the same as a welfare give away.

The bridge doesn't continue to employ anyone in that process year after year so it's a temporary way to simply redistribute cash. Sure it's great to be a worker for 3 months on the bridge when you had no job, but the reality is that the bridge is not going to create a long term job for you, or actually produce anything independently to pay for your job. At most the bridge can raise revenue through a toll which is just a tax, which once again produces nothing and just takes money out of other people's pockets to have to keep paying for something again and again, that produces nothing of tangible value itself save toll bridges that are really just taxing people to use the bridge.

The construction business is dead save for the government throwing money at it because other businesses are dead because there are no real jobs. Because there are few real domestic businesses that produce anythig.

Likewise the Stock Market produces nothing, it is like a Casino, you invest in a chance and worse yet a chance and a perception.

Farmers produce something, manufacturers produce something, miners produce something, cooks produce something, waiters serve something, etc. etc., and all that has to take place to afford to keep building things, and those things are not taking place in the normal healthy functioning manner they should be or could be.

That's economics 101. Economics 101 doesn't change for the sake of your argument or your political persuasion, math is math.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 06:16 PM
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Its rather interesting. I was reading an article by Ron Paul and his solution to the financial crises. So what is his solution? To do nothing. Let the market be and ofcourse continue to spend $515 billion on the military industrial complex a year. Change the system but do nothing to solve the problem. Do nothing to curb the increase in debt. This is Ron Paul, and his answer is to do nothing.

Its ironic, folks here complain Obama hasnt "changed the worst financial crises since the great depression in 9 months", I wonder how folks would be talking if Ronnie got in and implemented his do nothing scheme, would they then be accusing him of "doing nothing"? I dont think I have to answer that.

They wouldnt be complaining that the flat tax system was never ratified as well. Just goes to show ya.

I wonder if anybody could tell us here whether the market would have corrected itself and avoided a depression all those months back. Now I agree with Ronnie, our debt is skyrocketing, but his do-nothing solution really doesnt solve that issue. Merely changing a system will not bring down the debt either, especially when you have folks complaining the proportion of taxes gone to pay off debt.... while complaining that debt needs to go down. So whats the solution from Paulers on that? Have a revolution and dont pay any more debt. Wonderful, just like that, walk away from out debt, and Im sure those foreign owners of our debt will walk away as well... and Im sure those who owe us debt around the world will continue to "pay back us back for their debt".

Its amazing, the praise Ronnie gets on this forum and yet the sheer hypocrisy. But atleast the mans honest about where he stands, Ill give him that. He admits to being a "do-nothing" candidate for president. So, in a sense Paulers and tea party protestors blame this president for doing nothing, then doing too much, then praising Ron Pauls solution for doing nothing to solve the crises of debt. Makes sense.

[edit on 13-9-2009 by Southern Guardian]



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by mental modulator
 


No investing in infrastructure that produces and creates nothing does not generate wealth, as I said before, it spends wealth.

Does a bridge make widgets? Does a park make donuts? Of course not, and the reality is all these things are already being taken care of on a State level to begin with. They are already being paid for by State taxes to begin with.

Please explain to me which road cooks a hamburger? Which bridge sews a shirt? Which park farms beef? Which Library makes furniture?

Investing in infrastructure when the infrastructure is already working and in good order during an economic crisis is like loosing your job and going out and buying a new living room furniture set...

Not to smart!


I understand what you are saying... But I am saying private business's and small business's alike are shedding jobs, these people in effect go on unemployment, sit around and stew in their misery. They default on their bills and the bill collectors default
on their quotas, which leads to another round of unemployment, repeat, repeat....

I would look at it as providing oil to an engine and gas at the same time. The oil
being the capital which ensures the scenario above from being so pronounced and
the gas is actually producing something, getting people out doing something productive
and applying that money towards [ ] (which you argue the necessity of and you are likely correct in some cases or more).

Currently there is NO entity "capitalized"
enough or willing to make up for the rate at which this country is grinding to a halt. If the basic everyday transactions slow down further WHO or WHAT will be able to step in and pick up the slack?

I understand that your woes with government and the progression of things, but right now we are neck deep and it is not the best time to reevaluate decades of twists and turns.

Now one might suggest lowering taxes tremendously, but this does not ensure that the capital would flow as most people are trying to save and rightfully so. In such a contractive environment the gut reaction is to do the same .The sheer volume
of $ owed to bill's alone cannot be sustained with the decrease's in household incomes.
So what is to keep this unemployment isolated to those currently unemployed?

You cannot fix a flat tire by taking out more air and you might say "you can't save a sinking ship with more water" and I would say "you can't bilge the water without plugging the holes",etc...






[edit on 13-9-2009 by mental modulator]



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Its ironic, folks here complain Obama hasnt "changed the worst financial crises since the great depression in 9 months", I wonder how folks would be talking if Ronnie got in and implemented his do nothing scheme, would they then be accusing him of "doing nothing"? I dont think I have to answer that.


Yes, people would be complaining about that too if it were happening.

You know what I find ironic? You were proven wrong when you said people weren't wanting to impeach Bush and move from saying we're Bush supporters to saying we're Ron Paul supporters. Just tossing labels till you can find one that sticks huh?



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 06:49 PM
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lets be clear of whats happened and what will continue to happen..The crises started
DC gave banks and corps moneys..
Banks and corps started tightning the noose on consumers..
Companys started down sizing..Lay offs galore..
Un employment continues to raise.
Stimuless whent to one time projects..IE the bridge repair..
when that job is done,back to the un-employment line
Bills stack up
banks need another bail out..


If we had a FAIR bail out we would have put that moneys into jobs that had returns..meaning creat a new car company that continually employs people..Or bail out citizens..
This too big to fail is a crock..It was a payback to who got him in office..No more no less..
The system is on a one way runaway train into the gutter..But the corps and banks will be at the back in the caboose nice and safe..

and for the slower people,the american reinvestment act is akin to rototilling your yard as opposed to just mowing it..Mowing it will let the grass grow again,and tilling it makes sure it doesnt..



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by Jenna
Yes, people would be complaining about that too if it were happening.


Thankyou for your honesty Jenna.


You know what I find ironic? You were proven wrong when you said people weren't wanting to impeach Bush and move from saying we're Bush supporters to saying we're Ron Paul supporters. Just tossing labels till you can find one that sticks huh?


What are you talking about? Are you denying the mixture of former Bush supporters and Ron Paul supporters? Oh I must apologize, these days its so hard to differentiate you fellas when you continue change labels. I dont know, but as far as I can see it, your all in the same crowd at the moment, or am I incorrect? Wasnt it the republican run "freedom works" that contributed to most of the tea party protests? Wasnt it pro-bu#e Cantor that spoke at one of the teabagging rallies? And then again Ron Paul ran as a republican and didnt he put his support behind the tea party protests? Were their no Ron Paulers supporting these tea party protests? Are you a Ron Paul supporter Jenna? Am I inaccurate my anaylsis? Are you telling me your movement does not consist of that mixture Jenna?

SG

[edit on 13-9-2009 by Southern Guardian]



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


I certainly can empathize with you friend, and do sincerely share in your desire that things get better and a way can be found to make things better.

The reality is that for me, I didn't just show up to this dance. I am 45 and started researching the corporate government, history, and conspiracy theories at the age of 6. I started protesting against the government and the corporations at the age of 13, and by the age of 14 by mutual agreement and contract was banished from the actual educational system because of my political views about the corporate government and how I voice them.

Now honestly over 4 decades I have seen the slide that my grandfather and his friends were terrified of at the end of their lives all through my life continually get worse and worse.

The system itself is broken, and it's been broken for a very long time, each successive administration simply compounds as it tries to mask the corruption and mistakes and lies of the previous one. It's not a democratic thing, it's not a republican thing, it's not a black thing, it's not a white thing, it's a corrupted government that has been taken over at it's roots by outside corporate interests that have an absolute stranglehold on government all throughout the government.

It really is a the baby needs to go out with the bathwater situation because the whole system is corrupt and has so long been corrupt no one person or combination of people is going to correct the existing system.

The system can't be fixed at the polls because the political process is controlled at the polls by the corporations.

It can't be fixed from within, because the whole system is corrupt from within.

The only thing that is really going to make a difference is a real change, and the change really is going to need to be, cleaning house, flushing the whole mess down the toilet where it belongs and getting a new workable constitution in place that gaurantees realistic rights for all people but also creates a government that can't be corrupted by corporate interests and lawyers, and has simple easy to follow laws that corporations can't find ways to get around through endless loopholes and codes that they have written for them by the politicians they own and control for that very reason.

The original 13th amendment which was written and ratified by 12 of 13 states in 1818 barred anyone with noble title from office. Esquires which are lawyers are one step below knights on the nobility chart. The original 13th ammendment was quietly supressed and replaced with the current 13th ammendment during reconstruction following the War for States rights, and make no mistake about it, the war really was about States Rights, the slavery issue was added at a later date to make the war more attractive to Northern Christians.

Ever since then it's been nothing but one law after another to tax and enslave people and enrich the corporations with uneven playing fields that favor them and penalize and restrict the little guy.

The corporations are all multinational, we are all local, if multi national corporations are running the country, and multi national corporations are running the country, and their eyes and priorities are on the world, and not here domestically, then we have exactly what we have.

That is not ever ever going to change at the polls or with a President or even a political party. It changes when you strike it all down, and create something that works fairly and evenly for everyone.

That's my belief, it's always been my belief, it's always been my belief my whole life, and I have been fighting for that belief my whole life.

That's where I am at, and there is just no getting around where the country is at, and it is act exactly where I expected it to be at today 39 years ago when I started considering how the government and business is really run and what the consequences of it would be and are.

The current system provides no solution, the current system was designed for your reality on the ground to be the solution, the solution the worlds richest men and corporations wanted on the ground in America.

You play the game by their rules you are always going to loose, because they make the rules to make sure you are always going to loose.

And that's that!

[edit on 13/9/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by Redpillblues
lets be clear of whats happened and what will continue to happen..The crises started
DC gave banks and corps moneys..


I agree that much of DC is in the tank for the corporations, and the years of the Republican administrations made it more so with deregulation. Essentially your saying here that we should leave the corporations to continue to cheat the people in healthcare and in loans without anybody protecting the people instead of anything else?

The DC bailouts may have seemed distasteful, but after allowing the pigs to roam free and feed on working americans for 8years to the point where much of DC was under them, whos to blame for weight and economic dependence right now? Who opened the gate for the corporate piggies to roam free?



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by mental modulator
 


I am still waiting for you to realize that runaway government spending of existing revenue in to something that does not generate additional revenue does not actually fix an economy but further hampers it.

You don't seem to get that redoing a bridge that is working fine already is the same as a welfare give away.

The bridge doesn't continue to employ anyone in that process year after year so it's a temporary way to simply redistribute cash. Sure it's great to be a worker for 3 months on the bridge when you had no job, but the reality is that the bridge is not going to create a long term job for you, or actually produce anything independently to pay for your job. At most the bridge can raise revenue through a toll which is just a tax, which once again produces nothing and just takes money out of other people's pockets to have to keep paying for something again and again, that produces nothing of tangible value itself save toll bridges that are really just taxing people to use the bridge.

The construction business is dead save for the government throwing money at it because other businesses are dead because there are no real jobs. Because there are few real domestic businesses that produce anything.

Likewise the Stock Market produces nothing, it is like a Casino, you invest in a chance and worse yet a chance and a perception.

Farmers produce something, manufacturers produce something, miners produce something, cooks produce something, waiters serve something, etc. etc., and all that has to take place to afford to keep building things, and those things are not taking place in the normal healthy functioning manner they should be or could be.

That's economics 101. Economics 101 doesn't change for the sake of your argument or your political persuasion, math is math.




You don't seem to get that redoing a bridge that is working fine already is the same as a welfare give away.

The bridge doesn't continue to employ anyone in that process year after year so it's a temporary way to simply redistribute cash. Sure it's great to be a worker for 3 months on the bridge when you had no job, but the reality is that the bridge is not going to create a long term job for you, or actually produce anything independently to pay for your job. At most the bridge can raise revenue through a toll which is just a tax, which once again produces nothing and just takes money out of other people's pockets to have to keep paying for something again and again, that produces nothing of tangible value itself save toll bridges that are really just taxing people to use the bridge.


Well first off you are arguing that Americas infrastructure is sound, therefore any work is welfare.

www.asce.org...

American Society Of Civil Engineers -



2009 Grades
Aviation D
Bridges C
Dams D
Drinking Water D-
Energy D+
Hazardous Waste D
Inland Waterways D-
Levees D-
Public Parks and Recreation C-
Rail C-
Roads D-
Schools D
Solid Waste C+
Transit D
Wastewater D-
America's Infrastructure GPA: D


So as you see provided any of the Professional evaluation above is correct this would
contradict your assertion.

Therefore any work would not be welfare (although that is a strange way to put it)
it would be applied to things that fall under federal jurisdiction in most cases.
Sure these jobs will not last for ever, but apparently it is HONEST work that needs doing and can help offset private sector loses with employment earned income.
The other point that you do not seem to recognize is that these times are not typical,
the point is to create temporary influx of capital to offset retraction. If we are to remain
the country we are these basic things need to be addressed eventually, hopefully
not when the GPA is F.

The report card GPA in 2005 was a C- and these things degrade faster with each passing year.

And yes math is math - you cannot create a job when you are cutting spending on a business level...

just as you cannot save a bleeding man by withholding blood.

I don't like the whole situation - I am just trying here





[edit on 13-9-2009 by mental modulator]

[edit on 13-9-2009 by mental modulator]



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Thankyou for your honesty Jenna.


You're welcome. It's what I do best, I'm not good at dancing around questions with pretty lies. More like a bull in a china shop really.



What are you talking about?


Come now, don't be coy. You claimed that there weren't cries for impeachment of Bush when there very clearly were. I posted some links proving it and you never responded.


Are you denying the mixture of former Bush supporters and Ron Paul supporters?


No, I'm denying that all of us are one or the other. Are there some of each? I haven't gone and asked every single person but I'm sure there are. Does that mean that we all are? Absolutely not.


Oh I must apologize, these days its so hard to differentiate you fellas when you continue change labels.


The only ones trying to change our "labels" are the ones putting them there in the first place. The only labels I accept are American, female, mother, wife, and angry voter. So unless you're calling me one of those, save the labels for someone else because none of them fit me.


I dont know, but as far as I can see it, your all in the same crowd at the moment, or am I incorrect?


So if I'm on a bus standing next to someone who just happens to be a criminal does that make me one of those too? What if I'm in a crowd of doctors, does that make me a doctor? Being in the same crowd as people who are doctors or criminals doesn't make you the exact same thing they are. It works the same here too. Being angry at the government just like a Bush or Ron Paul supporter doesn't make me a Bush or Ron Paul supporter. It means we have something in common, but support for a certain candidate isn't necessarily that something.


Wasnt it the republican run "freedom works" that contributed to most of the tea party protests?


Don't know, don't particularly care.


Wasnt it pro-bu#e Cantor that spoke at one of the *tea party* rallies?


Fixed your sexual insult and once again don't know, don't particularly care.


And then again Ron Paul ran as a republican and didnt he put his support behind the tea party protests? Were their no Ron Paulers supporting these tea party protests?


Pretty sure he did, and pretty sure there were. Does that mean anything? Nope, not a thing.


Are you a Ron Paul supporter Jenna?


Nope, I'm not. Not that it particularly matters, you'll just try to come up with another label to toss at me.


Am I inaccurate my anaylsis?


If you mean your analysis of me, then yes you are completely inaccurate. Couldn't be any further from the target than if I blindfolded you, dropped you off 3000 miles from it, and told you it was to the south when it was really to the east.


Are you telling me your movement does not consist of that mixture Jenna?


Not my movement, I've planned none of the tea parties. I notice, however, that you continually ignore the fact that some democrats were also present at the tea parties and are also angry with the government and Obama. Ignore the facts you don't like huh?



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


Trust me the infrastructure is fine. No one is dying out there because of the infrastructure, no one is failing to get to work because of the infrastructure, no one is having a hard time getting products or goods to market because of the infrastructure.

The infrastructure is an inanimate object no different than your coffee table. If your existing coffee table is fine I don't recommend going out and investing money in a new one when you have no job.

I recomend investing money in finding a job.

A real job is a circular endeavor. Jobs that create and sell things on an ongoing basis on a regular basis from fixed or newly created locations for the purpose of doing on going business are circular jobs that keep creating revenue.

Jobs that buy things don't. In essence all you are buying is a repair based on an engineer's oppinion based on a grading scale engineers make to give engineers something to do.

Ever had an engineer at a party? Not exactly the life of it!

Even if the infrastructure needed repair which it doesn't, even if it needed expanded which it doesn't, doing so does not create earnings, it spends earnings.

Once again it's just math and economics 101.

The money that has to pay for it has to come from people with jobs, and taking that money to give them something they really don't need, prohibits them from using that money for something they really do need, which is why we are loosing jobs, because people can't afford the things they need anymore, because there are no real businesses left besides auto manufacturing, weapons and aerospace manufacturing, and service industries and none of them create real circular revenue and some of them like weapons and aerospace are at a huge cost to tax payers.

We use 135,000 dollar missiles to knock down a 20.00 stone hut in Afghanistan, if we parked the plane or battle ship and knocked on their front door and gave them 100.00 and a sledge hammer from wal-mart they would knock it down themselves and go build another 20.00 hut and pocket an 80.00 profit and we would have saved 134,900 in the process, and had a few more friends in the world, instead of a few more enemies.

Your argument for a bandaide on a gaping wound is just that, an argument for a bandaide on a gaping wound.



[edit on 13/9/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by mental modulator
 



Your argument for a bandaide on a gaping wound is just that, an argument for a bandaide on a gaping wound.


Maybe so...



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 08:24 PM
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We need moneys pumped into jobs that makes jobs and will make other jobs..Like its own little system..
With the infrastucture bail out,that is and always will be a short term,one shot of stimulous..

we need bail outs where it will keep the system in motion for longer than a summer or two..
What about opening up a windmill factory or a solar panel factory..
That spurs supliers for said parts,and then the drivers to get the parts to and fro,and then down the construction worker installing them..and all the other jobs created in the interm..
Thats the type of reinvestment we need..Not a reinvestment of a one like a wham bam thank you mam..That what we got handed..But the corperations and banks got their pocketts warmed till they cry broke again..and it will happen soon enough..GarOOnteed..



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 08:29 PM
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Obama is a usurper and the whole system is corrupt. The people of America have every right to overthrow this illegitimate government if they so choose. The Founding Fathers made that perfectly clear with the 1st and 2nd Amendments first and foremost.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by Jenna
Come now, don't be coy. You claimed that there weren't cries for impeachment of Bush when there very clearly were.


Very interesting, I would have loved to see evidence of tea protestors walking down the streets in 2003 with us when the war was announced, do you have any evidence of that?

Can you give me evidence of any tea parties that protested against the $1 trillion military increase?

I mean sure, sure there may have been some Paulers among the protests, but explain to me where this "conservative" movement was against Bush?



No, I'm denying that all of us are one or the other.


Yet you expect me to address all of you as what? Tea party protestors who happen to be a mixture of Bush, republicans, Paulers and neocons, and Im suppose to address you as what? There are many people in this movement of yours Jenna claiming many things. When you choose to march down that road with a pro-Bush supporter, or a white nationalist, how do you expect me to ignore your participation?

The mere fact your all marching down that street together, clearly holding up signs placing yourselves, shows me that this movement comprises of many things, but denies such.



The only ones trying to change our "labels"


Change labels? I see folks walking around with confederate flags, praising the south of the 19th century, I see others holding birther signs, I saw a couple of protestors holding up "praise Glenn beck" signs, another one holding a pro-fox news sign, another one proudly claiming support for the past Bush administration, another one claiming to be libertarian and another one holding up a sign claiming the movement to be one of "non-partisanship" ironically enough.

Who's changing the labels around here? There are people claiming to be different things all contributing to this movement of yours, and your telling me Im labelling your movement?


The only labels I accept are


I dont do not care what labels you accept, Im not the one carrying them in your movement.



So if I'm on a bus standing next to someone who just happens to be a criminal does that make me one of those too?


No ofcourse it doesnt, however thats an inaccurate comparison. If you were on that bus full of criminals heading to a "make criminalization legal" march however it'd be hard to say you have nothing to do with them.

This isnt a simple innocent bus ride to the grocery store obviously, this a movement supposedly United, and claiming to be so. So how you can continue to disassociate yourself with those other protestors chanting the same thing as you, with different agendas, doesnt make sense.


Don't know, don't particularly care.


Ofcourse you dont care Jenna, because this movement is supposedly non-partisan and all about government.. paid for and lead by government members of the opposing party. Makes sense.



Fixed your sexual insult


I didnt start the name sorry. Maybe folks should have considered a more appropriate name instead of ignorantly associating themselves in that manner. Its not my problem.



Pretty sure he did, and pretty sure there were. Does that mean anything?


Well ofcourse, your telling me Im incorrect in labelling you all Bush supporters and Ron Paul supporters, even though both sides are involved in the same movement. You probably know this, but hey, its just a play of words to you.



If you mean your analysis of me


Its not all about you obviously. Im not interested just about "you", Im interested in this movement that your part of.



Not my movement,


You have nothing to do with the tea party movement? Thats a surprise but explain please.

[edit on 13-9-2009 by Southern Guardian]



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 09:08 PM
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Anytime one wishes to super stimulate the economy, one only has to drop taxes.

Joe has the tax withheld reduced by $60 a week. Joe will NOT put that in savings, he will spend it on goods and services.

Now multiply Joe by fifty million. Per week.

Had Obama and the controlling Democrats truly wanted to create jobs, they would have reduced all taxes on individuals and corporations alike to a flat 15%.

If they wanted all our overseas jobs back, they would have made the rate "permanent" for ten years. Businesses would have been busting their asses to get here.

So they have to reduce spending. There is so much duplication of services in the Federal Government that often a dozen different agencies are providing the same, identical services.

Besides, a flat tax makes EVERYONE share in the tax burden, and THAT alone would rein in some of this dumbass Leninist economics that our current elected leaders seem to embrace.

Now anyone could learn this in Economics 101, so it's not like this is rocket science.

The fact that they didn't take the PROVEN steps to stimulate the economy and not only save jobs, but drastically increase jobs, tells me that someone has another agenda.

They're dead set on breaking the bank.

Why?

Because American voters fell for flash and shine, appearance over substance?

We in the US love slick marketing and packaging.

And Obama was packaged and marketed like Hitler could only dream of.

No, this guy isn't the real thing, and by hook or crook, the faster we get rid of him and the current DC leadership the better off we'll all be.



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