Sonic Weapons Used in Iraq Positioned At Congressional Townhall Meetings in San Diego County

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
You have to be kidding?

No I am not kidding. I am informed, and intelligent enough to know what an LRAD is, and what it isn't.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
It's a weapon, that uses sound, ear plugs wouldn't work.

Have you ever been in the field of one? I have..... Earplugs DO work, they make the sounds less harmful. It even says it in Wiki!

en.wikipedia.org...

Countermeasures may include the use of passive hearing protection (earplugs, headsets), which may bring the sound down to ineffective levels. In addition, sound could be reflected from a solid surface, and redirected back to the originator.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
It can be used as an effective speaker, becuase it is a speaker, but it is a speaker designed to incapacitate.

No, it was not designed to incapacitate. It was originally designed for ships at sea, so they can send long range audible voice messages before they got too close. Conventional speakers don't have the same range, unless they are huge and heavy. So they designed the speakers to send sound beams which they found travels longer distances. Sound beams are no louder than regular sound waves.

They found that a loud audible sound was effective at annoying people, and damaging ears, so they classified it as a non-lethal weapon. With that logic, ANY speaker capable of 150dB is a weapon....

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
You passing it off as just an advanced PA system, is to me, ridiculous.

If you educated yourself, maybe it wouldn't be so ridiculous.

Like I posted in my last post:

it uses an array of conventional acoustic tweeters, the same as those used in many professional audio applications, all driven together in parallel.

So it IS just a p.a. system.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Although I'd have to say that in the end, these will get turned into a security/PA system, but the way you brushed it off so quickly is the main reason why the rest of us who don't want them will end up getting them forced on us, even if we are the majority.

In the END they will get turned into a security/PA system??? Try the BEGINNING, because that is what they are, and what they were designed for.

Forced on us? Oh wow, I'm so scared of sound waves. They might tickle me to death.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Sound can do alot more than deafen you if used properly. Look up Cymatics.

I am a scientist, I know what sound is, and I know what cymatics is. I also know what sound can do....

....but we are talking about 150db speakers!

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Imagine these everywhere, shops, restaraunts, in the street. Talk about population control.

Population control with non-lethal weapons??? Not possible. Or are you just talking about crowd control?

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Does anyone know what the topic of the meeting was about? I'd assume it's an important state meeting if the congressman of said state was attending, or is that usual?

You should have read the whole article.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Are these permanently installed, or were they only there for the meeting?

If you would have read the article, that question would have been answered too..

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Anyone else getting the feeling we may be seeing alot more of these?

Oh wow, run for your life! They are going to make everyone deaf!

My drum set is louder than an LRAD system.

[edit on 11-9-2009 by Nines]

reply to post by JIMC5499


and you do not think those guys carrying their weapons to a public event, with innocent women and children around, WHO HAVE NO IDEA IF THEIR OWN LIVES ARE IN DANGER, represent a threat.

this was a direct threat to any civilian or law enforcement to back the F off, or they would shoot you.

and this is exactly what you have told me you would do until the police arrived...

Originally posted by jimmyx
reply to post by JIMC5499

 

and you do not think those guys carrying their weapons to a public event, with innocent women and children around, WHO HAVE NO IDEA IF THEIR OWN LIVES ARE IN DANGER, represent a threat.

this was a direct threat to any civilian or law enforcement to back the F off, or they would shoot you.

and this is exactly what you have told me you would do until the police arrived...

No I don't think it is a threat. I have a conceled carry permit and usually carry most of the time. If somebody wanted to pose a threat at one of these events, you wouldn't see the weapon until they started shooting. They wouldn't walk around with a weapon in plain sight attracting the attention of the Police and security. Stop buying into the media's anti-gun hype. Gun laws are a waste of time and effort. The people who obey the laws are the ones that you don't have to worry about in the first place. The ones that you DO have to worry about are not going to concern themselves about the damn law. If you live in the US, you have no idea how many people walk right by you every day carrying a weapon. It is our RIGHT to carry just as much as it is YOUR right not to.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Well then why does it cost so much more than a really good PA? And why is it effective at stopping pirates with AK47's? And why does a company exist to specifically sell a system that is so mundane?

I went to a SWAT demonstration, and I stood in front of the SWAT team, but I still realize how dangerous they are? I have maced and tazered myself, and I still see danger in these items!!

This is not just a really loud sound! Even a quiet sound can bring down buildings and bridges, make you ill, disorient you, or drive you insane!!

I can vouch for that. Ask anybody who has ever worked on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier. I used to spend a lot of time with two F-14's running up on the bow cats, while I was launching a helo from the angle deck. I had ear plugs in under my ear protectors and that still didn't help. The vibration just came in through your body. Several time it caused nausea, vomiting and disorientation. It was the deep bass vibrations that were harder on you than the high frequency stuff.

Originally posted by MR BOB
reply to post by Nines

 

I dont believe you. and if you have had the "privilige" of standing infront of one of these "full blast" please explain to us how you came to be in this cituation. do you work with these? or work within the goverment?

[edit on 11-9-2009 by MR BOB]

They are basically advanced PA systems. I have stood in front of one and they are pretty cool. You can stand beside them and not hear anything and once you move to the front of them you can hear what they are playing over the speaker.

They are a lot safer then a tazer, tear gas, batons, and of course bullets. They also don't hurt near as bad as a tazer. I went to a US Army Expo in Germany a few years ago where we got to have this and tazers used on us, purely voluntary.

With the tazer we were told to stand as long as we could. I get up for my turn and get shot and I go down instantly and hurt for a few hours afterwards.

I then stood in front of this speaker and before they turned it on they told me to stay in front of it as long as I could and when I was done to simply move 3 feet to my right or left.

They turn it on and found that they had put in Slayers Blood Red. It got louder and louder and within 10 seconds it sounded as if I was in the front row of their concert after about 20 seconds I moved over. Besides a little ringing in my ears that went away after about 30 minutes I was fine.

Take my word for it. If you plan to be part of an out of control crowd then you want this used instead of a tazer.

If it is an active denial system (which i doubt) don't worry.

Million dollar active denial system < 1 dollar .303 Rifle round.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Nines

 

Well then why does it cost so much more than a really good PA?

It doesn't. I good PA system will cost way more than an LRAD. That is another reason why LRADs are better than PA's.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
And why is it effective at stopping pirates with AK47's?

...because it's hard to shoot a gun when you have your fingers in your ears.

It does hurt your ears, I am not denying that.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
And why does a company exist to specifically sell a system that is so mundane?

Not many companies make directional speakers. The ones that do own patents to the technology. If I wanted, I could make an LRAD in my garage, however, not everyone has the knowledge to do it, so that is why companies exist. Also, if you need 1000 of these LRADs, you will need a company that can mass produce them quickly.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I went to a SWAT demonstration, and I stood in front of the SWAT team, but I still realize how dangerous they are? I have maced and tazered myself, and I still see danger in these items!!

It is my opinion they LRAD's are not dangerous simply because there is multiple countermeasures that make them ineffective.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
This is not just a really loud sound!

Oh really? Then what is it?

.....a loud sound.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Even a quiet sound can bring down buildings and bridges, make you ill, disorient you, or drive you insane!!

A quiet sound can bring down building and bridges?? I'd like to see that! Whoever designed them must be a failure.

I am aware of devices and other forces like wind that could shake buildings and bridges at their resonant frequencies, and that could potentially harm them, but that is not QUIET sound waves.

I also don't agree with you about quiet sounds making me ill, or disoriented. However I do agree that a quiet sound can drive me insane, up until the point where I get ear plugs.

Originally posted by Nines

it uses an array of conventional acoustic tweeters, the same as those used in many professional audio applications, all driven together in parallel.

It's just a loud sound.

Audio Engineer for 20+ years.
These device in question produce "just sound" as a laser device produces just light.

Sound, just as light, CAN be lethal at the correct frequency, duration, intensity and SPL.

Everything has a resonant frequency. Find the freq and manipulate it to resonate the target object until it falls apart. Earplugs headphones wont do a thing for you if you bones are shaking.







[edit on 11-9-2009 by mantic]

reply to post by Nines

I am aware of devices and other forces like wind that could shake buildings and bridges at their resonant frequencies, and that could potentially harm them, but that is not QUIET sound waves

OK, I guess "quiet" is relative. A low frequency, yet intense sound, would seem quiet to a human, but may pack a serious punch when resonating with cement or steel girders or cables!!

And, I am at work, so I can't find a good source at the moment, but we do have existing sonic devices that produce nausea, vomiting, etc.! See the other poster's response that verified his personal experience with low frequency sound! Also see the "Brown Note" Mythbuster's special. Even though they didn't reproduce it effectively, they did get reactions based on the sounds!

Originally posted by mantic
Audio Engineer for 20+ years.
These device in question produce "just sound" as a laser device produces just light.

I can be classified as an Audio Engineer too.. I agree with you 100%

Originally posted by mantic
Sound, just as light, CAN be lethal at the correct frequency, duration, intensity and SPL.

I agree with this as well. HOWEVER, we are talking about the LRAD system which is not capable of killing.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
OK, I guess "quiet" is relative. A low frequency, yet intense sound, would seem quiet to a human, but may pack a serious punch when resonating with cement or steel girders or cables!!

Low frequency doesn't mean quiet.

I am fully aware of resonance. so I don't get what you are trying to prove? We are talking about the LRAD system, remember?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
And, I am at work, so I can't find a good source at the moment, but we do have existing sonic devices that produce nausea, vomiting, etc.!

...but these sonic devices are not "quite" like you claimed.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
See the other poster's response that verified his personal experience with low frequency sound!

I read it... and?

Have you ever been to a Top Fuel drag race? Now that tickles your insides!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Also see the "Brown Note" Mythbuster's special. Even though they didn't reproduce it effectively, they did get reactions based on the sounds!

Ive seen it. "Brown Note" myth was busted.

So what is your point?

I am not debating about what sound could do. I am debating about what LRAD's can do.

Here is a good link about sonic weapons:
en.wikipedia.org...




[edit on 11-9-2009 by Nines]

reply to post by Nines

I am not debating about what sound could do. I am debating about what LRAD's can do.

My mistake. I thought you were debating about what sound can do. I don't have any more knowledge about LRADs than what you linked too from Wikipedia, so I am strategically disadvantaged!

Originally posted by Nines

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Even a quiet sound can bring down buildings and bridges, make you ill, disorient you, or drive you insane!!

A quiet sound can bring down building and bridges?? I'd like to see that! Whoever designed them must be a failure.

I am aware of devices and other forces like wind that could shake buildings and bridges at their resonant frequencies, and that could potentially harm them, but that is not QUIET sound waves.

I got involved in this a few years ago in a research paper I did for college. I took a 1/8" X 6" X 4" sheet of steel and sheared it into 4 6" X 1" pieces. I took one piece and immediately put it into a tensile machine and measured it's tensil strength. The other pieces, I wiped down with Break Free, to prevent corrosion and put one into each of three chambers. The first chamber was soundproof and completely quiet. The second contained speakers that played a variety of heavy metal music at 120db. The third contained a transducer connected to an oscillator that generated a constant vibration at 400 hertz. These samples were left in their chambers for 90 days and then I put all of the samples on the tensil machine. The results were kind of surprising. The sample that was in quiet matched the strength of the first sample, within the tolerance of the machine. The one exposed to music had about a 1% loss in tensil strength after taking the machine's tolerance into account. The one in the chamber with the transducer had a loss of over 4% after taking the tolerance of the machine into account. My results matched two studies that I had heard of. One was a study done by the US Navy concerning the airframe life of helicopters and the other was one done by Carnegie Mellon concerning the structure of the Civic Arena in Pittsburgh. In both cases low frequency vibrations caused increased fatigue in metal structures. The vibration in helicopters was traced to the main gear box and tail drive shaft, while the Civic Arena's was traced to people stomping their feet during events there.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Nines

 

I am not debating about what sound could do. I am debating about what LRAD's can do.

My mistake. I thought you were debating about what sound can do. I don't have any more knowledge about LRADs than what you linked too from Wikipedia, so I am strategically disadvantaged!

LRAD - Long Range Acoustic Device

Noise Levels

The louder a sound is, the more it moves the structures in your ear. The higher its pitch, the faster it moves them. Loud or high-pitched noises can cross the threshold of pain, or the point at which a sound is painful. Here's how some everyday sounds compare to the LRAD:

Normal conversation: 60 dB
Lawn mower: 90 dB
LRAD maximum normal volume: 120 dB
Threshold of pain: 130 dB, depending on the person's tolerance
LRAD maximum volume with override: 146 dB (continual), 151 dB (burst)

And this:

LRAD Fast Facts

Range: 300 meters (984 feet or about 3 city blocks) over land or 500 meters (1640 feet) over water, depending on environmental conditions
Beam width: About 30 degrees

Size: 33-inch diameter by 5-inch thickness

Weight: 45 lbs

Input: Microphone, laptop, MP3 player, CD player, Phraselator translation device

Maximum Volume: 120 dB at 1 meter in normal operation, 146 dB sustained or 151 dB burst at 1 meter with override

There you have it. Enjoy the link, its very informative.

They have been using this for years at various protests...

IT has settings, hopefully the operators are not sadistic

Originally posted by Nines
]Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
You have to be kidding?

No I am not kidding. I am informed, and intelligent enough to know what an LRAD is, and what it isn't.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
It's a weapon, that uses sound, ear plugs wouldn't work.

Have you ever been in the field of one? I have..... Earplugs DO work, they make the sounds less harmful. It even says it in Wiki!

en.wikipedia.org...

Countermeasures may include the use of passive hearing protection (earplugs, headsets), which may bring the sound down to ineffective levels. In addition, sound could be reflected from a solid surface, and redirected back to the originator.

Sweet! IF they start trying to use them on the public, throw some headphones on, see if that helps. Ear plugs and headphones only block the noise from reverbarating around your canal, dampening the noise. What hapens when a frequency is too high for these protectives? A noise you barely notice, but the next thing you know, your getting headaches, dizzyness, blurred vision?

Lemme guess, it's ust sound waves right?

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
It can be used as an effective speaker, becuase it is a speaker, but it is a speaker designed to incapacitate.

No, it was not designed to incapacitate. It was originally designed for ships at sea, so they can send long range audible voice messages before they got too close. Conventional speakers don't have the same range, unless they are huge and heavy. So they designed the speakers to send sound beams which they found travels longer distances. Sound beams are no louder than regular sound waves.

They found that a loud audible sound was effective at annoying people, and damaging ears, so they classified it as a non-lethal weapon. With that logic, ANY speaker capable of 150dB is a weapon....

You talk of sounds as if they're all the same? This isn't your stomach vibrating when you stand next to a speaker, that's base, low frequency, stand in front of one with the frequency turned up and watch what happens.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
You passing it off as just an advanced PA system, is to me, ridiculous.

If you educated yourself, maybe it wouldn't be so ridiculous.

Like I posted in my last post:

it uses an array of conventional acoustic tweeters, the same as those used in many professional audio applications, all driven together in parallel.

So it IS just a p.a. system.

You keep going on about other people being uneducated, this is placing yourself on a pedastal above them. A classic sign of insecurity.

It matters not the parts that make it, I will conceed that it may well have been originally discovered as a loud, focused speaker, but the way it is implemented is the weapon.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Although I'd have to say that in the end, these will get turned into a security/PA system, but the way you brushed it off so quickly is the main reason why the rest of us who don't want them will end up getting them forced on us, even if we are the majority.

In the END they will get turned into a security/PA system??? Try the BEGINNING, because that is what they are, and what they were designed for.

Again, I conceed they were originally discovered through a long range PA system, but the way these ones are being implemented, are not standard PA system, they are a weapon, plain and simple, jus beacuse they can be used otherwise, no way detracts from this.

Forced on us? Oh wow, I'm so scared of sound waves. They might tickle me to death.

This just shows how ignorant you are in regards to cymatics, not too mention sound in general.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Sound can do alot more than deafen you if used properly. Look up Cymatics.

I am a scientist, I know what sound is, and I know what cymatics is. I also know what sound can do....

....but we are talking about 150db speakers!

If you do have a firm grasp on sound, then you should understand it can do more than 'Tickle you'.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Imagine these everywhere, shops, restaraunts, in the street. Talk about population control.

Population control with non-lethal weapons??? Not possible. Or are you just talking about crowd control?

That depends entirely on the weapon. Our NLW's atm the moment are incredibly inefficient, but they're getting better. Wireless Tasers, ELF microwave emitters. These can all incapacitate and the only way to control a population efficiently, is to NOT kill, otherwise your workforce will dwindle.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Does anyone know what the topic of the meeting was about? I'd assume it's an important state meeting if the congressman of said state was attending, or is that usual?

You should have read the whole article.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Are these permanently installed, or were they only there for the meeting?

If you would have read the article, that question would have been answered too..

Computer timed out, apologies for the frivolity.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Anyone else getting the feeling we may be seeing alot more of these?

Oh wow, run for your life! They are going to make everyone deaf!

My drum set is louder than an LRAD system.

[edit on 11-9-2009 by Nines]

As I said, they can do alot more than make you deaf. Although still. If you were a part of a rally, or an 'incident', in which you were merely an innocent bystander and you happen to be hit by a balst form this thing and it DOES make you deaf, you'll be singing a different tune wouldn't you? Even if you couldn't hear it.

And your the first 'Scientist' I have heard refer to themself as a 'scientist'.

Just an observation.

EMM

Edits for numerous quotation mistakes! STRESS!
[edit on 11-9-2009 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

[edit on 11-9-2009 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

[edit on 11-9-2009 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

[edit on 11-9-2009 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

Edit to also add:

I am not debating about what sound could do. I am debating about what LRAD's can do.

Here is a good link about sonic weapons:
en.wikipedia.org...

I too am mistaken as to what you were saying, although I won't dismiss that although maybe this LRAD may not be capable of some frequencies and the ability to project them correctly, more powerful versions could, the principle is te same.

[edit on 11-9-2009 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers

Sweet! IF they start trying to use them on the public, throw some headphones on, see if that helps. Ear plugs and headphones only block the noise from reverbarating around your canal, dampening the noise. What hapens when a frequency is too high for these protectives? A noise you barely notice, but the next thing you know, your getting headaches, dizzyness, blurred vision?

Great Idea!
I have some Bose Active Noise Reduction (ANR) headphones! $300 investment turns out to be worthwhile after all! They actually work quite well if you guys haven't tried them! I suppose the operator of the PA will vary the frequency somewhat, but these things react within a second or two, so they should still work!

reply to post by Hazelnut

And your the first 'Scientist' I have heard refer to themself as a 'scientist'.

Someone does that when their particular field of science is not relavent to the conversation! I have been guilty myself!

I am a Chemist, although I am not working as one. I also have a lot of Engineering, Math, and Physics background. So, I usually call myself a "Chemist" but if the conversation warrants something different, I use "Scientist" to show my analytical mind and training in scientific processes!!

Just saying, your observation is very acute, and probably very relavent!!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Hazelnut

 

And your the first 'Scientist' I have heard refer to themself as a 'scientist'.

Someone does that when their particular field of science is not relavent to the conversation! I have been guilty myself!

I am a Chemist, although I am not working as one. I also have a lot of Engineering, Math, and Physics background. So, I usually call myself a "Chemist" but if the conversation warrants something different, I use "Scientist" to show my analytical mind and training in scientific processes!!

Just saying, your observation is very acute, and probably very relavent!!

Lol, how ironic! Your accepting my premise, yet you disprove my observation! Marvelous!

That was what I was thinking, not saying she/he doesn't have a scientific background, just that when the background isn't stated, it is usually because it wouldn't further his/her argument.

Either way, they're one up on me, lol. I was unfortunate enough to discover the beauty and intrigue of science after school, so I didn't have the head start as such.

Also, Dick Tracey! So retro!

EMM

A gun is a tool until you use it as a weapon. A PA system on steroids is a tool until you use it as a weapon. The choice is entirely up to the one in control of the tool. Any tool that can indiscriminately harm innocents interspersed with "bad guys" needs to seriously looked at. As I do not personally trust the tools using the tools.