Rockets fired from lebanon into Israel, page 3
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 7 times


reply posted on 11-9-2009 @ 11:16 AM by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by wycky


Good question. There are several projects that exist for almost a decade but they got funded <-> frozen cycle. In my opinion it is due to political corruption. With minister of defense from party X , project A was funded and B - not. And another party funded project B while stating that A is a waste of money.
Israel ,like US, got large military industrial complex (well for its size) and those guys know what strings to pull for profit too.
Example of rocket defense systems from Israel:
en.wikipedia.org...


reply posted on 11-9-2009 @ 11:23 AM by mattpryor
reply to post by wycky


Haven't checked the links but I imagine the PM stepping down and their government in turmoil is probably the biggest news at the moment?


reply posted on 11-9-2009 @ 11:29 AM by wycky
Sky News now has a video of the rockets being fired.

news.sky.com... lpos=World_News_First_World_News_Article_Teaser_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15379986_Two_Rockets_Fired_Into_North_Israel_From_Lebanon%2C_Police_In_The_Region _Report


reply posted on 11-9-2009 @ 04:29 PM by eldard
reply to post by no1dea


Good. Now oil will go up again. No mo' irresponsible SUV idiot drivers. Whoopeee!



reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 06:20 AM by Wimbly
reply to post by purehughness


What I'd like to know is, what weapons do Israelis use to retaliate? We know that Hezbollah uses Katyusha rockets (little more than oversized fireworks in this day and age)..


I was waiting for someone to post this ignorant blather. No more than fireworks huh? Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

Here is a quick lesson on the rocket ARTILLERY used by Hammas and Hezzbolah. None of it is mere fireworks. Even the smallest of the Qassams packs more of a punch than a grenade. If Israelis responded with barrages of Katusha's or Fajr-3's, the devastation would be just as bad. Hezzbolah and Hammas just suck at it.

Hammas and Hezzbolah employ a number of different rocket artillery. They are by no means "weak sauce", although the Qassams are their weaker artillery. A Qassam 2 is 150mm! Thats no joke. Even a 60mm rocket is quite a bit larger explosion than a grenade.

Whats a katusha?


They are older and unguided, but just as deadly as they have always been. A 150-200+mm warhead is deadly if its guided or unguided. This idea that they're equivalent to toys is ridiculous. Thats why I ask if you mind if Israel responds with the same weaponry. I guarantee the death toll on the Palestinian side is still higher.

HAMAS Rockets


The Qassam rocket was first launched into Israeli territory on March 5, 2002, by the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades. While the rocket lacks a guidance system and is very inaccurate, the initial psychological effect of the rockets upon Israel has been significant. Prior to the Qassam, Palestinian militants lacked the means to conduct long range attacks. The simple nature of the small rocket makes it exceedingly hard for Israeli officials to shut down its production. The IDF has noted that militants commonly hide a Qassam in a commercial truck, drive to a clearing near the Gaza border and launch the rocket. One Hamas website states that this takes only 15 minutes.


These are likely Katyusha rockets. It is older technology, but still packs a punch and kills.




On top of that Hamas has larger rocket artillery like Grads and Chinese made WS-1E.


WS-1

The WeiShi [literally "Guardian", (WS) family of the multiple launch rocket systems were developed by Sichuan Aerospace
 Industry Corporation (SCAIC, also known as Base 062) in Chengdu, Sichuan Province. The WeiShi series includes the 302mm WS-1 (100km range), the improved 302mm WS-1B (180km range), the 122mm WS-1E (40km), and the latest 400mm WS-2 (200km range). The WS-1 series weapon system did not enter PLA service, and has not received any orders from foreign customers.


Fajr-3s:


en.wikipedia.org...
The Fajr-3 Artillery Rocket is an Iranian multiple-launch artillery rocket, a third-generation Katyusha rocket. Fajr means 'dawn' in Persian (borrowed from Arabic).

The 5.2-metre long, 240 millimeter-calibre Fajr-3 artillery rocket has an estimated range of 45 kilometres or 25-30 miles, weighs 407 kilograms, and carries a 45-kilogram warhead.


en.wikipedia.org...


So yeah, these ARE NOT toys.

Hamas Charter
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up.

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.

After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."











[edit on 12-9-2009 by Wimbly]


reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 07:18 AM by 3DPrisoner
Originally posted by mattpryor
It's not about who has the biggest rockets.

It's about a correct military response.

And the correct military response is to discourage them from doing it again, not to get revenge. In order to do that you have to make them learn that firing rockets at your civilians (regardless of the size of the rocket) will hurt them more than it hurts you. That is how Israel has survived in the Middle East, even though it is surrounded on all sides by hundreds of millions of people that don't want them there.

Israel should use whatever weaponry it has at its disposal to discourage these murdering criminals from firing rockets at Israeli civilians, whilst taking appropriate care to avoid harming uninvolved civilians. Which is what Israel will do.


Too bad for you that a growing number of people around the world are seeing the Israelis as the real criminals here.

One could also argue that the Israelis snatching up Palestinian and Lebanese civilians by the thousands and throwing them into jail (many without trials) is just as criminal. Or continual land stealing that is being done by the Israelis.

And if Zionists didn't want to be surrounded on all sides by people who don't like them then they shouldn't have boogied in, in the first place.

Make them learn that you can hurt them more than they hurt you? Sounds like typical Zionistic justification for genocide to me. And please don't cry when the same logic is applied to the Zionists.

You say that they should use all weapons at their disposal to kill their foes. Well they have used (against international law) white phosphorous and cluster bombs on civilians in this area. They have nukes too mind you. Are you now advocating that they use them again with the addition of nuclear weapons on these people now? Kill, Kill, Kill, huh? All measures of violence are justified when you are God's chosen people right?

[edit on 12-9-2009 by 3DPrisoner]


reply posted on 12-9-2009 @ 07:33 AM by Dark Ghost
Originally posted by mattpryor
reply to post by purehughness


I imagine it's two-fold:

- Make life unpleasant for Israelis living in range of their rockets
- Encourage a military response to make Israel look like aggressors and diminish Western support for Israel

It does seem remarkably effective, especially since so many people in the West tend to fall for it hook, line and sinker - every time.

I would say they understand our psychology a lot better than we understand theirs.

Some interesting reading on Hezbollah's manipulation of Western media can be found here: newsmax. Lots more of it about on the internet if you care to look.


I think you suggested a very valid motive, albeit probably not a very popular one around this forum . If people can believe that Israel is capable of staging this whole thing, then is it not logical to assume Palestinian Militants could do the same? Or are the Israelis the only ones who are resourceful, cunning and capable of unjust killings?

One thing you cannot argue with is that fact that Israel's international reputation has taken a massive beating (especially in the West) since the beginning of this year. Whether or not this is justified does not disguise the fact that Israel's enemies have gained a lot of support from this. Not defending Israel here, but why would you mess with a winning formula such as this?

[edit on 12/9/2009 by Dark Ghost]


reply posted on 14-9-2009 @ 04:15 AM by mattpryor
reply to post by savetimerushonline


You should probably read this. December is the month when things got really nasty.

Life in the towns bordering Gaza was pretty intolerable from what I've read. People had stopped going to work and schools and factories were having to be shut. Air-raid sirens going off every five minutes.

Don't know what other people would expect their own government to do in that situation, I know that I'd want them to put a stop to it.



reply posted on 14-9-2009 @ 01:18 PM by 3DPrisoner
Originally posted by mattpryor
reply to post by savetimerushonline


You should probably read this. December is the month when things got really nasty.

Life in the towns bordering Gaza was pretty intolerable from what I've read. People had stopped going to work and schools and factories were having to be shut. Air-raid sirens going off every five minutes.

Don't know what other people would expect their own government to do in that situation, I know that I'd want them to put a stop to it.


I know that if somebody showed up on my front lawn and then claimed it for their own, then enacted racially exclusive legislation (just because they could),then jailed thousands of my countrymen (just because they could), killed thousands upon thousands of my countrymen (just because they could), herded my countrymen into a thin strip of land and then put that strip under siege (just because they could), and then tried to colonize on land given to my countrymen by the U.N. (just because they could), I might ask my fellow countrymen (who had not been jailed or killed) to put a stop to it too.


reply posted on 15-9-2009 @ 05:23 AM by heineken
just coming in....

Israel opens fire on Lebanese fishing boat

In another violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1701, Israeli forces open fire on a Lebanese vessel in the country's territorial waters.


According to Lebanese authorities, despite a UN resolution calling for "a full cessation of hostilities", Tel Aviv frequently violates Beirut's land, sea and air space. UNSC resolution 1701 ended the 33-day offensive against Lebanon's resistance movement Hezbollah in 2006.


we cant expect rockets fired from both sides and the story just ends like that


reply posted on 15-9-2009 @ 05:48 AM by mattpryor
reply to post by heineken


Nice even, balanced reporting you're quoting there from the Iranian regime mouthpiece

[edit on 15-9-2009 by mattpryor]


reply posted on 15-9-2009 @ 07:34 AM by mattpryor
reply to post by 3DPrisoner


You overcomplicate things.

The Middle East conflict is surprisingly simple. It has nothing to do with land ownership, right of return, or self determination.

It comes down to one very simple to understand fact: the Muslim and Arab world doesn't like Jews.

There is so much evidence for this that you would have to be wilfully blind not to see it. Look at their media. Listen to what comes out of their mouths. Just read some comments on Youtube for crying out loud.

If Arabs didn't hate Jews so much, they wouldn't object to Jewish refugees building homes in a tiny scrap of desert in the Middle East. They wouldn't object to the same Jewish refugees building their own country and running their own affairs in what was a sparsely-populated backwater of the Ottoman Empire. No Arab leaders gave a crap about "Palestine" until Jews decided they wanted their own government there.

If those Arab leaders didn't hate Jews so much they wouldn't be using their enormous wealth for the sole purpose of deligitimizing and destroying Israel. A process which started with pogroms, lynchings and organised riots against Jews over 100 years ago, has been the cause of a number of wars, and has taken the form of bloody terrorist campaigns against Israel and her allies, media manipulation, and financial corruption of the UN.

They do all this because they don't want Jews to have self-rule in any part of what they consider to be Muslim Arab land. The notion of a non-Muslim state of any size, let alone a Jewish one, is abhorrent to them.

Gaza is already lost to extremism and hatred. The light of civilization, introduced by the Jews, has been extinguished. It has been replaced by rule by force, punishment beatings, knee-cappings and violent suppression of dissent.

If Obama and Mitchell have their way the West Bank will be next. Then it'll be Tel Aviv. It's a process which will one day lead to war, not peace, and the deaths of millions of Jews.

And you know what else?

We'll be next.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by mattpryor]
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