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Mohammed is now the third most popular boy's name in England. So why this shabby effort to conceal

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posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by 0010110011101
I've never seen such alarmist and racist rhetoric contained within one thread.

TSOM87, if this was my board you would be banned for insighting racial hatred. The BNP are a facist party whose moral line is in keeping with Mein Kampf and all associated Nazi propaganda.

The OP's line about the British being "out-bred" is steeped in racist undertones as well.

This is nothing but fear mongering by a right wing facist publication, the Daily Mail.

It makes me ashamed to be a member of ATS to see the outdated racist views and language containted within this thread.

95% of the Muslims in this country are law abiding decent folk and this nonsense about the UK adopting Sharia law is absolute drivel.

It makes me worried for my children's future when I read bollocks like this, you should be ashamed.


In this democratic nation (lol) TSOM87 has a right to vote for whatever party he wants, whatever their views. He can also ask others to do the same. You wouldn't let him air his views because they aren't the same as yours? Now what would you call that? Pot, Kettle, Black anyone?

You will find that Sharia Courts are already sanctioned and active in the UK TimesOnline Link As are their Jewish equivalent. They don't affect the law of the land and don't affect people outside their influence so why should we care.

The Islamic meme is very strong and possibly stronger than the Christian one. Both intend to convert everyone possible by any means. That is the basic premise of most religions. There are Islamic propoganda videos are on youtube describing how they can outbreed other religions and force Islamic states. It isn't a fabrication. The Catholic meme works in a similar way. Whether any significant proportion of the Muslims resident in the UK have this as an agenda is another matter.

Please stop calling people racist/facist every time someone questions the actions or intentions of another culture or voices their opinion. It happens far too much in the UK and stifles reasoned debate.

Of course rasicm is abhorrent, but the fact is the majority in this country prefer their current culture and would like it to continue. If you decide this is racist then that is your opinion.

On the other hand maybe the immigrants are following the British example of immigration like our "Little Britains" we have founded around the world with ex-pats that can't be bothered to learn the local language and integrate into the local society.

The Western economies currently rely on a continual increase in population to remain profitable. If the indiginous population isn't providing this then TPTB have two choices; change the economic system or import some people. Which of these is the simple choice?

Both sides of this cultural dichotomy in this country annoy me with their intelligent arguments; Blue Corner: "I hate the [Insert Minority]" Red Corner: "Racist, Facist!" And so on ad infinitum.


[edit on 11/9/2009 by LightFantastic]




posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by TSOM87
 


Am I calling you racist.................?

You were calling upon people to vote BNP. Have you read a BNP manifesto?

I don't know whether you are racist or just ignorant. You may be both. But unlike you, I will not base your character assessment upon a couple of posts on a message board. I've never met you in person, so it's impossible to tell.

It's very easy to hide behind a computer, isn't it?!?!?!



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 10:04 AM
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Actually people have every damn right to be concerned.

Why can't muslims adopt to British law? Something like 40% of all UK muslims want Sharia law here.

In some parts of the UK, white girls get harassed by Muslims just for wearing short skirts in their own damn country, spat on and called 'white whores'.

Radical muslim clerics call upon muslims to partake in a Jihad in the UK.


Almost third of Muslim students on Britain's campuses believe killing in the name of religion can be justified, according to a controversial survey described as the most comprehensive of its kind.


Yet when people complain about it, the PC brigade shove the race card down their throats.

news.bbc.co.uk...

www.telegraph.co.uk...


People aren't bothered about the normal muslims who integrate into society, but they ARE arsed about the one's who do not integrate, the one's who wish to turn the UK into an Islamic state, the one's who burn bibles and the union jacks.

But i guess in some peoples minds, racism only works one way eh?



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by 0010110011101
reply to post by TSOM87
 


Am I calling you racist.................?

You were calling upon people to vote BNP. Have you read a BNP manifesto?

I don't know whether you are racist or just ignorant. You may be both. But unlike you, I will not base your character assessment upon a couple of posts on a message board. I've never met you in person, so it's impossible to tell.

It's very easy to hide behind a computer, isn't it?!?!?!


Theres nothing wrong with Voting for any National party..they stand for THE COUNTRY..not other countrys and there immigrants! They want whats best for there country and its people!

Am not Racist, i don't have a problem with other races ect. But with believeing in a National party people like you have been programmed to believe thats a racist thing to do! Your posts prove it!

Tsom87



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by LightFantastic
 


You make some valid points and your post is the most sensible in this thread by a margin.

To answer your questions, I appreciate that we live in a democracy (of sorts) and everyone is entitles to their opinion. However, I firmly believe that the BNP is a party based upon a racist ideology and should not be able to stand for a vote, let alone be advocated as a voting option on an Internet message board. Right or wrong, that is my opinion.

I appreciate that Sharia Law is already being practiced in this country but as you point out yourself, this sits outside of the legal mandate of the UK and always will.

I take your point about the outwardly defiant, you are a racist/fascist stance. However, the posts in this thread are alarmist and are insinuating that Islam is inherently bad. Re-read an assess the tone for yourself.

We should all embrace each others cultures, indigenous or immigrant. Agreed the onus is on an immigrant population when moving to a new country but adopt and learn is a policy all sides can benefit from.

2 questions for you:

1. Do you believe the BNP is a party based upon racist ideology?
2. Do you believe the Daily Mail is right wing propaganda?



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by 0010110011101
reply to post by LightFantastic
 

I appreciate that Sharia Law is already being practiced in this country but as you point out yourself, this sits outside of the legal mandate of the UK and always will.


I re-read that first sentence a couple of times, but I'm still not sure whether you made an error. Are you seriously saying you appreciate Sharia Law being practiced in the UK?



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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A better post this time 1437!

Even if the other posts are alarming and racist you have fallen into the trap of hurling insults rather than trying to reason. Whilst I respect your opinion on whether we should be able to vote for the BNP it would be undemocratic not to allow it. If we ban the BNP then what will be banned next? It could be a slippery slope to dictatorship.

The Sharia Court outcomes are indeed enforceable by the UK courts but they have no other influence outside their remit.

To be honest I too little about either the BNP or the Daily Mail to answer yes or no (The BNP website isn't up at the mo).

What I do (think) I know about the BNP is that you have to be white to join which appears discriminatory but they use the defence that whites wouldn't be able to join the National Black Police Association etc. I find it difficult to put down their argument and I guess the Judges will too. When any group separates itself from the majority on ancestry such as the NPBA does they are behaving as bad as the BNP.

What may surprise the BNP is that approx 5% of their members will have a none white recent ancestor. And all of them will have a none white distant ancestors. Exactly where do they draw the line on what is "white"?

I also find the US race descriptions strange, such as African-American, Irish-American, Italian-American etc. More self separation. Surely if they were born in America they are American full stop?

The fact of the matter is that apart from a few examples, what is described as racism isn't racism. The discrimination is culturally based. Whats wrong with disliking another culture if it clashes with your prefered culture? I'd bet that the majority of people that could be described as racist would have no problem with anyone whatever their ancestry if they subscribed to the "racists" culture.

You are correct it is best if we all try and get along. Whilst there are separatists on any side this isnt going to happen.

Difficult topic isn't it?
Not as black and white as it first appears, if you pardon the pun.


[edit on 11/9/2009 by LightFantastic]



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by Mdv2

Originally posted by 0010110011101
reply to post by LightFantastic
 

I appreciate that Sharia Law is already being practiced in this country but as you point out yourself, this sits outside of the legal mandate of the UK and always will.


I re-read that first sentence a couple of times, but I'm still not sure whether you made an error. Are you seriously saying you appreciate Sharia Law being practiced in the UK?


Check out the TimesOnLine link I Posted in my post at the top of page 2.

Not a lot a people know that.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 11:45 AM
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I was aware of the Sharia courts in the UK. In fact, it has been widely discussed in the Dutch news papers. In fact, it is said that we also have them, but only in Mosques. If true, I am shocked about this person being appreciative of the fact that they exist in Britain.

In my opinion, every individual should abide the country's legal system. We cannot all just implement our own legal systems. If they want Sharia Law so badly they should go to Saudi Arabia or Somalia, and if they want to stay in the Netherlands (I will refrain from speaking for the UK), they should acknowledge the Dutch legal system and nothing more than the Dutch legal system, like everyone else.

It's being pushed a little further everything, what will be next? Dear to criticize and you are a racist.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by Mdv2
It's being pushed a little further everything, what will be next? Dear to criticize and you are a racist.


Thats the problem at the moment, it is much easier to shout racist than to have a reasoned argument.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 11:51 AM
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Why do so many muslims even want to immigrate to another country like Britain? You don't see Britains or Americans moving entire clans to another country then trying to change that country to the very thing they immigrated from.

It is going against the grain of the general populations both here and in GB so yes, it has to be the one world govt. guys propagating it.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 11:57 AM
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This puts it in perspective:
www.youtube.com...

by 2050 half the population of Europe will be Muslim. And that is the plan of Islam, for the whole planet to be muslims. Fastest growing population in the world with no plan to stop growth.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 12:03 PM
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Let's stay on topic people shall we?

Also a little reminder..

Quoting Guidelines


Quote the post immediately before yours: This makes no sense, and quoting the entire previous post above yours will result in a slight warning.

Quoting an entire post: Size doesn't matter unless the post is already small, less than 3 sentences. You will receive a warning if you quote an entire post that exceeds four or more sentences.


Please adhere to this.

Thank you

Semper



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by Mdv2
 


I'm not a racist and I will criticize. Islam must be stopped!



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 12:12 PM
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You know this issue is a lot more complex than people realise. Many people see it as a very Black or White issue. It is really silly to treat this issue in such a way because moderates on both sides get lumped with all the fanatics on their side of the fence.

E.g. 1
You want to limit immigration? Okay, you are a right-wing extremist and your views are dangerous. You do not care at all about "retaining standards that define your country's identity" and are simply racist.

E.g. 2
Muslims are planning to take over the country. Unless all Muslims who name their children Muhammad do not first use a name like William or Terry they are a threat to our society and need to be removed.

Imagine if the majority of people thought along the lines of these extreme statements...

It might not politically correct and the truth might hurt, but simple logic tells somebody that if you have the same colour skin and religion and culture, you are MORE LIKELY to get a long and have less problems with somebody who is different than you in these areas. This works both ways. If you are natural born British citizen and you desire to live in a country like Iran, you will need to educate yourself or be knowledgeable of their customs, cultures and rules/laws BEFORE you actually do. You cannot emigrate there and after going through all the legal paperwork decide you prefer the lifestyle in Britain so you feel you have the right to change the laws of Iran so that they conform more to British values and culture.

This is what multiculturalism does. On the one hand, it is great and interesting to meet different kinds of people and experience customs and cultures much different to your own. But how far are you willing to embrace or permit other cultures that are vastly different to your own? When do you draw the line and say that the rights and privileges you love and treasure about the country in which you were born and live comes under threat from an outside culture?



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by Chovy
Why is England bending over backwards for the Muslims?
Second line.


How in this case are they "bending over backwards" for Muslims?

Did they mandate that families must name at least one of their sons Mohammad, or did they just CHOOSE to do so?

What is this supposed to indicate?

- Lee



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 12:26 PM
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I've gotta say, I feel for those of you who are worried that your respective nation is under threat via mass immigration. As i'm sure most of you well know, we've got a bit of a problem here ourselves in the US of A, specifically with Mexicans coming over our southern border illegally. I also happen to live in Detroit, and one of the major suburbs of Detroit(Dearborn) has the largest population of Arab-Americans per capita outside of the Middle East. Personally, I have had only minor problems with any Arabic people here in the city, and they largely seem to be extremely normal and actually participate in society here. I had quite a few muslim friends in high school, have worked alongside many muslims, and have even dated a muslim girl at one point.
The reason that i've fleshed all of this out for you, is to demonstrate that it is unfair to make broad and sweeping generalizations about a people and/or culture based on the actions or statements of a select few zealots.

I honestly believe that immigration needs to be more strictly controlled so as not to upset the economic or social structures of a nation. I agree with a few of you on many points, for instance: immigrants SHOULD be required to learn the native language, history, and culture!!!

There are so many variants and differences between America and the UK, America and the Dutch, and (i would imagine) the UK and the Dutch....that it all needs to be done a bit differently for each country based on their respective problems.

Myself, I just wish the US would lock down our border with Mexico...but alas, that cheap illegal labor is just too much of a good thing for our Federal Gov't apparently


On the whole, immigration isn't a bad thing. However, I believe that those whom are immigrating should be held to some kind of standards.

Great thread btw, S&F to the OP and F's for many of you!



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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The Australians have very tight imigration laws, I dont see much hysteria over that country doing its own thing, good luck to Oz I say.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by Mdv2
So what? I am not insinuating that a church should be build 100 meters away from the Black Stone, but the Saudi's don't even allow a church in their country, let alone the city of Mecca...


Mate -they don't even let kuffars (inferior term for non muslims) into the actual city itself and have special 'fingerprinting technology' to weed the 'criminals' out.

Talk about delusional,insecure bigotry.


Saudis Arrest Christian for Entering Mecca
Michael Freund, Jerusalem Post

Saudi officials have arrested a man in Mecca for being a Christian, saying that the city, which Muslims consider to be holy, is off-limits to non-Muslims.

Nirosh Kamanda, a Sri Lankan Christian, was detained by the Saudi Expatriates Monitoring Committee last week after he started to sell goods outside Mecca's Great Mosque.

After running his fingerprints through a new security system, Saudi police discovered that he was a Christian who had arrived in the country six months earlier to take a job as a truck driver in the city of Dammam. Kamanda had subsequently left his place of work and moved to Mecca.

"The Grand Mosque and the holy city are forbidden to non-Muslims," Col. Suhail Matrafi, head of the department of Expatriates Affairs in Mecca, told the Saudi daily Arab News."The new fingerprints system is very helpful and will help us a lot to discover the identity of a lot of criminals," he said.


atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...
Cheers.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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I really could care less what someone wants to name their child.And i could care less about muslims as long as they integrate into society.As for the saudi's won't let people build churches but we will let muslims build mosques..emm so? The UK is not saudi arabia and trying to compare countries and what they do to try and justify things we do is a slippery slope.



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