have you even studied martial arts. the religion behind martial arts is primarily Buddhism, then Taoism. True ninja's who are from either the Koga or Iga region of Japan believed in Buddhism. Watch Ninja Scroll. The Kuji-in practice the ninja and samurai mudras that was taken from the vajra mudra practices.

have you? buddism and taoism and shintoism all blend together in japan.

besides what does your argument about a modern incarnation of tv ninja have to do with this thread about a japanese secret society?

i fail to see your point. we arent discussing religion!

if you cant contribute with valid and coherant points, then dont

ninja scroll is hardly a historical document. i have had many many years exposure to both modern ninjutsu, bujinkan and togakure before it became bujinkan and am actually in japan, studying martial arts now.

we are discussing people ONCE known as yamabushi, who founded all ninja clans, including but not limitd to iga and koga ryuha.

a group who have been around since before the birth of japan. shaping its course. perhaps they are buddhist, or shinto OR daoist. or presbyterian pentacostals. who knows.

the only valid point you make is yes... the kuji kiri is 9 mudra from buddhism, 9 of over 2000 mudra.

well. i thank you for your input but please read the entire trhead before posting. you really didnt understand what anyone was saying here.

Delicate topic here, folks. Google Black Dragon Society and Green Dragon Society. These leads may be of some interest. Op, if youd like you may u2u me, and we may exchange further information. First id like a sample of just how far you have dug into the matter. If you can provide me with an obscure reference to the subject not found on the internet, i will expound upon it as a reply. That way, things may be verified and we can both be sure of not wasting each others time.

Where can I find the fighting styles of these black dragons? I want to compare it to the Chinese styles that I learned. All styles can be traced very far back(not to specific people, but the land or region), based on the underlying motions. Certain martial strategy's( interlocking of forms,footwork,ect) can give away alot about where it came from, and even what other styles it was made to defend or defeat.

Also don't forget the boxer rebellion

During the defence of the Legations, a small Japanese force of 1 officer and 24 sailors commanded by Colonel Shiba, distinguished itself in several ways. Of particular note was that it had the almost unique distinction of suffering greater than 100% casualties. This was possible because a great many of the Japanese troops were wounded, entered into the casualty lists, then returned to the line of battle only to be wounded once more and again entered in the casualty lists

You can find traces of them, but I believe they may be more into extending japanese power than helping poor people. I think they helped rouse the boxers to put china in a bad spot so the sino russian war could be fought more easily.

from what i have seen the hand to hand is very similar to chinese styles and VERY old jujutsu.

i dont know anywhere public it woudl be viewable. however modern ninjutsu is similar.

thanks for posting!!

Even the meso-american9sp?) cultures discuss this topic in their religion. The black and red bull. Also known as the black and red dragon. Then from there the yellow dragon, then the white dragon blah blah

thats interesting. i have long suspected that in the early years of japans opening to the west, there was an exchange of intelligence between amerindians and kokuryukai.

whether or not that have a similar base background would be very interesting.

even if it was just an industrial/western age exchange its still quite interesting!!

thanks for posting (:

It seems to go back further then anyone could've imagined. I'll be in South Korea and Japan in a few months to research it further, please keep me informed of any new information you receive.