Why pretend race doesn't matter?

i agree with u race plays a huge factor and alot of us in the black community thinks so as well but we dont speak on it much. just as whites are afraid of be labled as racist. we dont like are oppions being thrown away as the rant of another angry black man. but good luck convinceing alot of folks who will deny it to the grave that they hold any racist view at all. some people would rather die then admit. its sad but its a fact

reply to post by Broox


Alot. You'd be surprised at the massive amounts of preconnotations (is that the right word? Phage were are you i'm dyin over here) there are within the black community that is directed at white people..and not the stuff that Chris Rock likes to talk about.

As the OP stated, the civil rights movement was about 45 years ago..give or take. Millions of white people and millions of black were forced to live very separate lives while living in the same country, paying the same taxes. Your just lying to yourself if you think that a whole method of thinking is going to vanish in one or two generations, hate can be picked up or learned..racism i feel is taught. And parents teach there kids what they know and snowballs arent the only things that go downhill.

My grandmother who actually picked cotton don't like white people. She grew up IN the SEGREGATED south where you had two different drinking fountains. It's insane to suggest to her that she forget all that she has been through for a chance of a better tomorrow..not a guarantee but a chance. All of the hate that our forefathers bounced around is still out there and it will take some time to come over it..but then again if the chinese and japanese can't get along then we're in some trouble!

LOL j/k

This is a very touchy, touchy, touchy subject. It just pisses me off to no end when people makes posts based on stereotypes and the good ol explaination of "I work with [insert ethnic group] so it must be true!" or "I live with them, i say it's the truth!" which a majority of posts involving race fall too.

I'm in north carolina and you should hear what they say about Mexicans here. Do you know what keeps me from following the same rhetoric? Simple..50 years ago, they(America) were saying the same thing about me

My best friend is a white guy, we're down like 4 flats and a Cadillac and discussing this touchy for us, he thinks he way and i think mine..but we both know that it's only skin deep (some genetics involved) and we're American so at the end of the day..it's always all good


You folks be easy..i'm outtie

There's no longer anything I can say. The site rules have been updated to state that expressions of "racism and bigotry" are in violation of the member agreement. So all of you who have expressed disagreement with me in this thread will now have to be content with telling each other how much you agree with one another, with no opposition. Personally I thought we were having a polite, intelligent discussion here. But apparently that is only welcome now when the topic is an approved one.

I suppose next time I'll pay more attention when the people disagreeing with me in a thread are moderators.

While I appreciate the great irony that ATS "won't tolerate intolerance" I acknowledge that this is a privately owned site, and the owner(s) are entitled to whatever rules they wish. My own beliefs may disagree with the general consensus, but it's simply not very important to me to go out of my way to promote them.

As I sit here, staring at the bright green banner stating that "racism is for ignorant fools" and looking at the linked thread with statements like...

SkepticOverlord:
to be racist is to be an ignorant fool
not worthy of participation in society

...I can't help but feel, once again, a tremendous sense of irony. Nevertheless, these views are the general consensus, and in this case I am the minority to be oppressed and silenced.

I suppose some might consider it poetic justice.

I recall reading an esoteric essay somewhere suggesting that the biblical notion of "judge not lest ye be judged yourself" was intended to convey the idea that since we are one with our environment and the people around us...when we judge others we are really judging ourselves. If there is truth to this, then perhaps because I have expressed dislike of others, that expression is being directed inwardly.

I'll consider that.

Meanwhile, it's up to all the rest of you to consider your own introspection on this subject. Or to not. Personally I've always found it beneficial to question the most widely held beliefs. But then, just because lots of people believe something doesn't necesarily mean that it's wrong.



[edit on 19-9-2009 by LordBucket]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


U know i have read alot of ur response's and i really enjoy each one. its good to find people out there with common sense and see out side of the box.

i also agree that people are not aware of how racist they are. to sum to say things like he is a muslim spy a welfare thug.... etc is not racist but to others like myself. i find it very racist.

i grew up confused of my race. being mixed myself surrounded by white kids and mexican kids in a orphange and group homes. for along time i dident even know iw nas black intil i started to get treated differently. till case workes would tell me. if u wanted to get a family u should act more like the white kids. hoad judges tell me that i would be another black stat in prison are dead... i can go own for ever lol. growing up a black in arizona foster care systems u really see racism if ur a person of color. im sure to many of the case workers they just thought they were trying to help me by saying those thing when in fact they were being racist.

reply to post by jmacbeth


Wow. Thanks. And thanks for sharing your experience. Sounds like you've got a good head about it.

Behind a computer screen I have no color, In person, i am of hispanic origin, now i have a half brother who is blacker than obama, I have never voiced my opinion about the man on this forum before, however, taking up for him with a purely race related thread, defending his treasonous actions against the american people, and IMO the only reason why he did win the election is because people voted for the black part of him, not realizing he has a mind of a politician which is neither black nor white but green. Race is really a redundant issue as you said yourself about 20% of these people where around during the civil rights movement if not more. I am neither democart, nor republican, i voted for Cthulu in hopes many others would do the same.... I disliked both candidates, because they were the same, just one vanilla and one chocolate swirl..... but yeah we are almost in 2010 race is NOT as big of a deal as you may think it is, maybe because in fact for you, race is a big deal from things you have dealt with in your past, but i think a MAJORITY of TRUE AMERICANS (all races) would care a less about color as long as they were honest, but so far he has failed on almost every promise he has made, trying to push health care reform thats going to inflate an already overly bloated deficit, and the lowest man on the totem pole is going to get crushed first..... and when that happens, and its going to happen we will finally see the "change" that he promised each and every one of us.... in my opinion this thread is racist its just another disagree with "Chocolate Messiah" and your a racist... yes i did go there, go head call me because if i am a racist, i hate my own flesh and brother.... race, gender, creed make no difference to me... ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAT COLORS

my first post was a bit off topic but, here goes at a second, the REASON people PRETEND race DOES NOT matter, is to be POLITICALLY CORRECT.... sometimes you have to say FTWIDGAF and speak your mind about some things, some people are naturally bigots/racists/homophobes because that's how they were raised, products of their upbringing. and out of fear of being the next person "lynched" by the P.C. mob, they hide behind false hoods and lies.....

reply to post by OldDragger


Race only matters to racists. The rest of us couldn't care less.

reply to post by SpacePunk

Race only matters to racists.

I have a question for all of you in this thread. I've asked it before, I'll ask it again:

Somebody give me any reason why race should be magically exempt from consideration.

If an athiest avoided talking to a co-worker solely for the fact that he was christian...nobody would brand him as evil. If a girl wears a shirt that says "boys are dumb" she's not going to be ostracized from society. Hollywood can make movies that bltantly make fun of short people, and people will rush to take their children to see them.

Religion, gender, height, philosophical outlook...why is it socially acceptable to express every sort of preference, judgement, pre-judgement, hatred and dislike for people based on any criteria other than race?

In fact, this purely local, and cultural preoccupation with "race" isn't about race at all. There are three "protected" groups in this country. Blacks, gays and jews. Anyone else is fair game, but if you say anything about one of those three, even if it's true, you're branded as an evil, horrible person.

Why?

When somebody tells me they don't like whites, or christians, or whomever...I'm ok with that. I don't see anything morally "incorrect" with expressing preference. Liking chocolate more than sherbert does not make someone evil. Liking dalmations more than labradors is not a sign of moral bankrupty.

Having preference amongst humans is no different.


[edit on 23-9-2009 by LordBucket]

Originally posted by LordBucket
Somebody give me any reason why race should be magically exempt from consideration.

This is an excellent question! I'm going to attempt to explore it.

If an athiest avoided talking to a co-worker solely for the fact that he was christian...nobody would brand him as evil.

I think some people would. I think many Christians would. And I think I would. Not "evil", but closed-minded, prejudiced and arrogant, surely. But Christians history in this country is one of being the majority, secure in their beliefs, specifically protected by the Constitution. They haven't been the outcasts, the slave class, the oppressed. They've been in charge.

If a girl wears a shirt that says "boys are dumb" she's not going to be ostracized from society.

No, but boys wouldn't like it. Mothers of boys wouldn't like it. And I'll bet there would be plenty of girls who didn't like it. They're not going to be ostracized, but neither are racists. They live and breathe among us. What if her shirt read "Retards are dumb"? A totally different response. Boys have never been oppressed, looked down upon. Boys (and men) rule this world. Boys don't have the history that would cause extreme pain seeing that shirt.

Hollywood can make movies that bltantly make fun of short people, and people will rush to take their children to see them.

Sorry, I don't see it. I watched the trailer and read the synopsis but saw nothing about little people, let alone making fun of them.

Religion, gender, height, philosophical outlook...why is it socially acceptable to express every sort of preference, judgement, pre-judgement, hatred and dislike for people based on any criteria other than race?

It's not. It's not socially acceptable to make fun of or show prejudice towards people who have a history or a stigma that would cause pain to them and others like them. I'm sure there are going to be exceptions to this rule, but in general, if someone has been oppressed, made fun of, thought of as inferior or have a history of great pain, it's not socially acceptable to hate them or prejudge them for it. It still happens, but it's not OK.

Stereotypes rob the person of their individuality. Placing someone in a group with certain characteristics is not fair. And making fun of someone because of their physical appearance is just a sign of insecurity not to mention totally insensitive. Now, people still do these things. It's not against the law to be racist, but other people who aren't into prejudice are going to call you out, especially if your expression of prejudice is crude.

In fact, this purely local, and cultural preoccupation with "race" isn't about race at all. There are three "protected" groups in this country. Blacks, gays and jews. Anyone else is fair game, but if you say anything about one of those three, even if it's true, you're branded as an evil, horrible person.

Think about the history of black people, gay people and Jewish people. How many of them were killed JUST because of those adjectives?

And I disagree that these are the only groups who are "protected" as you say. People are "protected" based on their gender, religion, "race" (all of them), nationality, disability and age. You start making jokes about a disabled person and you'll find out real quickly just how socially unacceptable it is.

Really, the only unprotected minority is weight. It's still socially acceptable to make fun of or not hire fat people.

When somebody tells me they don't like whites, or christians, or whomever...I'm ok with that. I don't see anything morally "incorrect" with expressing preference.

Someone saying they don't like Christians is not expressing a preference. That's expressing a prejudice. That's singling out a group for a negative judgment. And everyone in that group is the subject of that negative judgment, no matter who they are.

Saying you prefer blonds is a preference. A choice. An attraction. It's singling out a group for the possibility of a positive judgment. You're not going to like ALL blonds.

So, if I preferred dating black men over white men, that wouldn't mean that:
I hate white men or that
I would automatically like all black men or that
I would never date a white man.

But if I had a prejudice towards white men, that would mean that:
I would never date a white man because I have negatively judged them all without any further information about any individual.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that prejudice and preference are the same thing.

I don't know if I answered your question, but I tried.