It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Have any criminal court cases been dropped due to loss of evidence in the WTC7 collapse?

page: 1
5

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 11:22 PM
link   
Have any criminal court cases been dropped due to loss of evidence in the WTC7 collapse?

WTC 1, 2 &7 housed the following government agencies (among many others)
Inland Revenue Service (IRS)
Department of Defense (DOD)
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
US Secret Service (USSS)
Securities & Exchange Commission (SEC)
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF)
US Customs & Immigration Service (now called ICE)

Cases that were affected (as noted by several publications) were the:
- Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley Dean Witter IPO fraud cases
- case against Enron
- case against WorldCom
All being investigated by the SEC, and of a very sensitive political nature to those in power at the time.

Searching through Lexis Nexis what I can't find were any court cases (criminal or otherwise) that were affected due to a loss of evidence contained within the federal evidence lockers of any of the above named agencies. Particularly to the more mundane cases investigated by the Secret Service such as computer hacking, counterfeiting, and credit card fraud, or the SEC cases involving small security frauds.

Even the Sean "Puffy" Combs case was claimed to have lost material evidence in the collapse (handgun used in a shooting) yet the case proceeded and a conviction of the driver was secured. How was the gun, held in evidence at the WTC, which was allegedly lost in the collapse, able to be presented during the case? Wouldn't the case have been tossed without this piece of evidence?

An article on "D-Day: NY Sanitation Workers' Challenge of a Lifetime" mentions this about a search for missing evidence:

"Officials from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), Secret Service and Customs, which had WTC offices, also are searching for valuable evidence lost when the towers disintegrated.."


Evidence lockers hold key pieces of material evidence that MUST be presented to secure a conviction. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me a simple matter for a defese attorney to move for dismissal when the evidence goes missing (tragic as the situation that caused there loss may be). Yet I can't find more than just a handful of cases that were affected, outside of those high-profile ones mentioned above.

Does this indicate the agencies above were successful in recovering the contents of their evidence lockers? If this were the case then how does one explain the complete inability on the part of investigators to recover ANY significant pieces of the aircraft used in the attack?


“The United States government alleges that 4 registered Boeing commercial passenger aircraft were used in the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, yet has failed to produce any physical evidence collected from the 3 9/11 crash scenes positively tied to these federally registered United and American airlines aircraft.”

1. Infowars article February 26, 2008: 9/11 Aircraft ‘Black Box’ Serial Numbers Mysteriously Absent


Infowars reported that the government officially could not account for any wreckage that conclusively belonged to any of the purported flights.

2. Infowars article March 18, 2008: F.B.I. Elaborates On Reportedly Absent 9/11 Aircraft Wreckage Recovery & Identification Records.

Yet, handily enough, a passport belonging to one of the hijackers is recovered several blocks away from the crash site, in undamaged condition.



Does it seem too calculated, that evidence the government desired to keep or display should be recovered, while evidence held by these agencies that was damaging to the politically connected should be lost?

I'm not familiar with the 9/11 movement so this is my first real foray into the area, but this subject of lost evidence from these agencies has been bugging me for a long time. I have a close friend who was convicted (late 2002) by the SEC for fraud related to a bond he was marketing, which cost him close to $2M in fines and restitution. Not a big case, almost routine for the SEC in NY I suppose. His case began in 2001, and was delayed due to the attacks. The evidence was being held by the SEC at WTC7. He had been taken there in the early phases (prior to the attacks obviously) for interviews and dispositions. After the attacks it was like nothing ever happened. His case proceeded and the SEC never had a hiccup with the evidence. Of course, without knowing the chain or custody of the evidence it's impossible to say where it was truly being held, maybe a prosecutor had it in their office, etc. I suppose you can't pass any judgment based on this one anecdotal situation, but it did create a sense of something not being right, like it was all being manipulated behind the scenes.

Key evidence held at WTC7 damaging to the government? Lost (sorry, charlie)
Key evidence required by the government to secure a conviction in cases it prosecuted? Found

We were doing our best to keep an eye on all the cases that were resumed by the SEC following the attacks to see how they proceeded when supposedly all the evidence it held was destroyed in the collapse. Most of this evidence would have been paper or digital files, so it wasn't something durable enough to withstand the heat/flames of the collapse. But as we watched these cases unfold throughout 2002/03 there seemed to be no lack of convictions due to loss of evidence in any case. I even broadened my review to include the more criminal cases of the USSS and Customs agency. USSS cases in particular were very involved and were heavily reliant on evidence. Again, no lack of convictions due to loss of evidence, no cases dropped. I'm sure I missed something since Lexis Nexis only summarizes the more important or relevant cases.


I'm curious, but anyone here familiar with this aspect of 9/11?


[edit] hmm, meant to post this in "skunk works" since this is a bit of a work in progress, but maybe it's better here in 9/11?

[edit on 9-9-2009 by Blackmarketeer]




posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 12:12 AM
link   
I have looked in the buildings tenants list. You are incorrect about the DOD and CIA, they had offices in none of the buildings. the BATF was in building 6.

WTC 7 Tenants

Other than that, you are correct on the other tenants. That was one of the things that made the WTC 7 collapse all the more mysterious. I know that alot of evidence on Enron was lost in the collapse. So it might be a case of Enron's total corruption never seeing the light of day, and only a fraction of what was actually gotten on them might be the tip of the iceberg.



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 12:39 AM
link   
Well, Enron is another whole ball of wax. They did convict Kennyboy, who died thereafter without ever seeing the inside of a jail cell (or so THAT official story goes), but you're correct about wondering how much deeper that situation went, and how complicit the SEC was. Same goes for WorldCom and especially the Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley cases. MS even went on to engage in serious price manipulation in crude oil giving us $4/gallon sticker shock. But again, that's a whole nother ball of wax (I think).



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 05:20 AM
link   
i remember shortly after 9/11 reading that over 4000 (i believe) SEC pending cases/ investigations burned up in wtc 7

try googling that,, actually here you go

en.wikipedia.org...

7 World Trade Center housed SEC files relating to numerous Wall Street investigations, as well as other federal investigative files. All the files for approximately 3,000 to 4,000 SEC cases were destroyed. While some were backed up in other places, others were not, especially those classified as confidential.[50] Files relating Citigroup to the WorldCom scandal were lost.[51] The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission estimates over 10,000 cases will be affected.[52] The Secret Service had its largest field office, with more than 200 employees, in WTC 7 and also lost investigative files. Says one agent: “All the evidence that we stored at 7 World Trade, in all our cases, went down with the building


wtc7.911evidence.com...

on the secret service:::

"All the evidence that we stored at 7 World Trade, in all our cases, went down with the building," according to US Secret Service Special Agent David Curran -- the number three guy in that office. "We lost our network, we lost all our computers, we lost all the equipment that we use as Secret Service Agents. Everything from machine guns to our shotguns to our electronic equipment that we use."

A lot of cases had to be closed as a result of losing that building." – David Curran.

Equal Opportunity Employment Commission
"The EEOC lost 1,500 workplace discrimination case files stuffed with handwritten notes and witness statements that were housed in 7 World Trade Center.

All that remained was a database at the EEOC's Washington headquarters containing the names and addresses of parties and a computer code indicating their complaints.

The office's 35 investigators wrote down whatever details they could remember about each of their 40 cases and asked complaining employees, employers, and courthouses for copies of files."




get some more links by googling it,,, but apparently as lot of cases were dropped, lost,,,, however i doubt they want or ever will release hard numbers since it will make them look bad



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 07:54 AM
link   
as far as i know there was only one criminal case and they had him in custody, and his evidence before 9/11. so .. .. ....


edit: oh that one guy is right, wtc7 had computers full of information being used in the enron case.

[edit on 10-9-2009 by Myendica]



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 08:19 AM
link   
I am sure it comes down to how rich and powerful you are.

For Puffy's driver, there was probably evidence that the evidence existed.
As in, people testifying that they did recover the gun, documents were it was catalogued and transferred, etc.

Now, in the cases of Enron, fraud, embezzlement, and government involvement, I am sure judges found it beneficial to toss out cases based on lack of evidence, and they subsequently got lifetime appointments and scholarships for their kids!!

The legal system is easily manipulated and the greed of lawyers and self-preservation of judges and juries is easily predicted and influenced! If the chaffeur in Puffy's case had been driving a Senator, and had some sensitive personal info, the case would have gone a lot differently and the gun would have been a convenient excuse!

There is no Justice in our Justice system! That is why, I will never trust it! I will exploit it, but I won't trust it!

Some legal rules to live by:
1. He who calls the cops first wins.
2. Always play the victim.
3. Build your alibi now, don't wait until you need it.
4. Act scared in the company of police.
5. Always have a throw away gun of the same caliber as your registered one!
6. Lawyers (and Doctors) work for you. Manage your own cases, and use them as the tool that they are!



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 09:36 PM
link   
reply to post by shortywarn
 


Shortywarn, when I read the press releases or other headlines from offices like the USSS I still find it inexplicable that they claim thousands of cases were affected yet few cases were dismissed. This was the same office tracking down Osama's "money trail" too.

My area of focus was the SEC cases, following 9/11 and using Lexis as a source, there isn't hardly any mention of cases where prosecutors had to drop a case or a defense lawyer moved to dismiss a case. This in spite of the SEC's own PR that more than 10,000 cases were affected. They mention their use of backup systems - great, but then how did their largest fraud cases involving the big name firms above lose so much evidence if they were so efficient at backing up evidence (presumably offsite). Even cases that required physical evidence - how do you back up physical evidence? Either you have it or you don't.

What strikes me is that in spite of decades of government incompetence in nearly every aspect, they were incredibly prepared in backing up crucially needed evidence to allow them to resume so quickly, yet evidence that SHOULD have been in abundance at the site was mysteriously absent.



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 11:49 PM
link   
i'm with you,,,,


also,,, i jumped the gun b4 reading the whole post,,,, as it sparked my memory of reading those "4,000 cases destyroyed" headlines and i went off to find it,,, you had tons of good info there already


another "coincidence" i guesss,,,

since there are no "hard numbers" available,,, i tend to believe many of the SEC cases were dropped,,,, the sec and wall st have a pretty tight relationship,,,,,, to close and comfy really

you quit the SEC and get a huge slary at the co. you just prosecuted or vice versa


they seem to buddy buddy,,, and we've seen many cases dropped when obvious evidence existed or of 30 possible charges they will get hit with 2 or 3 that won't hurt em to bad

so this was a damn good excuse to keep that relationship coozy



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 11:37 PM
link   
SEC cases are federal cases, and in the federal system you plead guilty. Fair trial? Mercy of the Court? Not in the fed system. Federal prosecutors work under a United States Attorney (USA), or an Assistant United States Attorney (AUSA). They do what they can to get defendants to sign a plea.

After losing evidence related to 10,000 cases (as per the SEC's own statements) the criminal docket for the fed in NY should have been wiped clear. That never happened. I agree with you on this - only those highly scandolous cases involving extremely "Bush" connected firms got a reprieve - none of THAT evidence seemed to have been backed up away from WTC7!


For all those other cases, either the SEC had taken the extraordinary measure to ensure their files were moved out of WTC7 by happenstance, or they somehow recovered them from the ashes. Loss of evidence should mean loss of charges.

Rules of thumb:
You have the right to face your accuser. No accuser in court means no case. In a fed case, the accuser is the United States itself, as represented by the US Attorney.
You have the right to be presented with the evidence against you. Evidence vanishes, means you walk.

I suspect that in most of these cases and like the one your friend faced, he signed a plea agreement before 911, and the fed held him to it knowing that if it were challenged he would walk. In other words they did not disclose to your friend or his attorney the evidence went up in smoke.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 03:43 PM
link   
Thanks for the comments.

Macab: He did sign a plea agreement but not until long after 911. The SEC still had all their evidence against him, which included reams of papers, signed affidavits, depositions, etc. I was an investor in the bond at the heart of the matter so I too had to go in and give a deposition. This was all at WTC7.



new topics

top topics



 
5

log in

join