Cracks in the Obamacare Facade: One-third of "Uninsured Americans" Disappear in One Day!

Originally posted by Jim Scott
I find it to be an irreconcilable paradox that the illegal aliens will not be part of the equation, yet they will receive health care if needed when going to the emergency room. I don't understand. Can someone who knows the ins and outs of the health plan illuminate me? I like the universal health plan, but just wonder about this one point. Thanks for your help here.

It's very simple, really.

As of 2010 (the year of the Census), anyone here "sans documents," will be granted AMNESTY, and so, will not be "illegal!" Will they? (SEE: Kennedy "Immigration" Bill)

If it's no longer "illegal" to be here without permission to have crossed the border, then there are no "illegal" aliens, are there? Just 'non-citizen residents'.

This has all been thought out for you in advance.

Problem resolved, Obamastyle.

jw

reply to post by jdub297


Another "chip:"

50 Million New Patients? Expect Doc Shortages

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Longer waits, less care. It's all in the numbers if you look.

jw

Originally posted by Mak Manto
reply to post by jdub297

 

I'm against idiots not having insurance.

People get sick, and like I said, if they go to the emergency room, it's money out of our pockets...

Uh, I guess you are not aware that illegals go to emergency rooms for all of their medical care. And I guess you are all not aware that when they do that to get free (for the illegals) medical care that it contributes to the higher medical costs we all pay, whether it is out of pocket or through our medical insurance.



[edit on 9/13/2009 by centurion1211]

There are 8 million veterans signed up with VA health care system.

Many can not buy insurance as it is now because of preexisting health problems.

Others find health insurance to expensive because there insurance costs are higher then non veterans.
The insurance industry has found out how to check to see if someone that is buying insurance is a veteran and veteran are quoted a higher cost to buy health insurance because veterans are more likely to have service related health problems.
Vietnam veterans had Agent Orange, PTSD, ect
GW1 was gulfwar syndrome.ect
GW2 and Afghanistan its Traumatic Brain Injury(TBI) and PTSD, ect

And in most cases these veterans go to the VA even if they have insurance because the non VA doctor don't understand these disorders anyway.

reply to post by ANNED


I know several veterans, including some who served in GW1, GW2 and both. Even some from Vietnam.

They DO have insurance, either through employers they were with before getting "called up," or through jobs/groups they've joined since discharge.

Not one of their carriers held their prior "jobs" against them. Most don't even use the VA for routine care because their employers' policies let them get it under their plans.

jw

reply to post by jdub297


Hi, just wanted to point out that we both had the same idea when it comes to the illegals being made legal. In a post I made in some thread (cannot find it atm), I made a very similar statement.

I am replying here in this thread, because the article I just found made front page news. Seems we both hit the nail on the head.

No care for illegals in the bill, because, they will be legal!

washingtontimes.com...

reply to post by Libertygal
Great find!

Should've seen it coming, no?

THAT should be a thread all it's own!

s4u

jw

Another crack?

Estimates show that Baucus' bill will increase taxes for middle class Americans.

Under the Baucus plan, insurers selling a plan costing more than $8,000 for an individual and $21,000 for a family would have to pay a 35 percent excise tax on the excess amount.

Nationwide, about one in 10 family insurance plans would be subject to the new excise tax, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a liberal-leaning policy and research group.

The tax would very likely be passed along to workers in even higher premiums than they pay now. But if insurance premiums continue to rise faster than inflation, as they have for years, many more people’s policies could end up setting off the luxury tax in coming years.

www.nytimes.com...

Another "reform" justification disappears, along with another Obama "promise."

jw

GOD DAMMIT..
Who do I believe? ......I see so many conflicting views with this crap
OBAMA JUST STAY OUT OF OUR DAMN LIVES YOU SOB....KEEP YOUR CRAP TO YOU AND YOURS..I HATE IT. I mean I hope you get the Civil War you are hoping for because I am getting #ing pissed.
Enough is enough....revolution happens quietly and it does have a begin date, because it is spontaneity that will create it. It is not a planned revolt, it happens, when it happens. .....

as is the bill itself wasn't bad enough, CBO scoring shows it will require $400 billion in Medicare benefit cuts, higher taxes on workers, employers and insurers, just to break even.

And many say the reality will be far worse.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by stevegmu
They were counting illegals in the 46-50 million estimates.

Last I heard, during the W. administration, that number was something like 24 MILLION!!!! not to mention thousands more that were probably still in hiding and still unaccounted for. So what happened? did roughly 8 million of these illegals just up and disappear? Sounds fishy to be honest.

reply to post by Hitemhard
Maybe you heard wrong.

In any case, 2 things remain true: Obama intends to make them all legal, anyway; the numbers are only estimates, since very few of them actually checked in to be counted after they got here.

jw

reply to post by Hitemhard


There's no real accounting for them, as they are illegal. I think many left with the slow down in construction.

I didnt read every post here, so forgive me if I mention something previously stated.

The main thing I am worried about is this... under this new bill, according to a report by the private insurance industry, there would be an estimated average increase in premiums of $4000. That is a 200% increase over what we are paying currently. That would also push us over the limit into the "luxury,generous" plans and they hit us with another 35% excise tax. Add in the extra income tax and other bs taxes, what is left out of our pay? Do these douchbags in governemtn stop to think about these things? Thats the problem with all this socialist crap, eventually you run out of everyone else's money. Oh don't forget cap and trade remember what the glorious leader said..in his own words " under my plan for cap and trade, electricy rates would neccessarily skyrocket". Are these people brain dead? They are taxing people right into the street, half the country will be homeless by the time these idiots get done with Obama's social justice. Oh don't forget nancy Pelosi and her wet dream of VAT taxes, or the juice and soda tax, or the bs tax for SCHIPS on tobacco products. theres your change right there, you go from a comfortable decent life style, to living on the street because Uncle Sam wanted to help you.

Originally posted by Night Star

Originally posted by carewemust
I wonder if it would be cheaper for a healthy 25 year old person to
pay the penalty for not having insurance, than it would be for him/her
to buy the insurance? It's these kinds of details..the dollars and cents
stuff, that people want to know.

By the time the details are ironed out in the final bill, we the public
won't have the opportunity to review it. It will be delivered to the
President for signature at lightspeed. There will be MILLIONS of
angry Americans if this happens.

My husband and I couldn't afford medical coverage at that age, then around that age he ended up in the hospital being diagnosed with diabetes. It ended up costing us thousands of dollars!!! Never think that you are healthy and do't need medical insurance. Even children have diseases, acidents and what-not. You cannot predict what may or may not happen. One accident and you could end up in the hospital for a long time and crippled. Please, take this into consideration.

There are other things to take into consideration as well. Some people cannot afford insurance, no matter how cheap it is. There are a lot of people (and more every day thanks to the now-failing economy) that are doing good to simply pay the basic bills and have food to eat. I mean basic, too, water, electric, gas. I was a single mom for a few years, and did not have insurance, nor could I afford it. Even $25-30 a month would have killed my budget. I know people now that have not one spare dime. So under Obama's plan, they pay or get a fine? So who buys their groceries then? Who pays their rent? Obama? No; such people will have to apply for government aid, already nearly impossible to get for many people, and will end up far worse off than they are now. Taxes will raise even more, and a lot of people won't be approved for aid. Those that are are then under more and more government control; the real goal of this plan, if you ask me. The last thing we need is the feds in control of health care.

reply to post by SM2
Wait, wait, wait.

What if we call some of the taxes "fees," some of them "penalties," and all you whiners who pay them "rich."

See, that makes everything better now, doesn't it?

Since Sec./Czar Holdren wants the US to "de-develop,"
you won't be needing any of that expensive electricity anyway! And, if you don't have a job, you won't need to worry about fuel taxes or
the increased prices being charged by the repair guys to pay THEIR new taxes and penalties and fees.

Now it makes sense, right?

jw

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by Hitemhard

 

Maybe you heard wrong.

In any case, 2 things remain true: Obama intends to make them all legal, anyway; the numbers are only estimates, since very few of them actually checked in to be counted after they got here.

jw

That may be true, but what I was trying to express with my post was, that this whole "30-50 million" thing, is exxagerated in the first place since I remember the numbers being lower in the first place. So the excuse of "well 1/3rd of the country is uninsired" is garbage since they can't even seem to agree on the numbers of even illegals. Maybe they'd have a better foothold if they showed some hard data, and not spout numbers at random as they always do.

reply to post by ANNED


I don't know about that my friend, my husband is a retiree and a veteran of the first gulf war, we have tricare human and our fees are very low yearly we pay about a littler more than 300 dollars with medications from 3 dollars to 12.

I have a preferred doctor and can get a visit on the same day I call, had two major surgeries and everything but food was pay for.

Referrals are not more than 25 dollars.

Now with Obamacare we may be losing the triacare benefits and be forced to get private insurance at their rates that will be higher that what we pay right now, up to 4 thousand dollars when now we pay only over 300.

Things are not looking good for retirees and vets under Obamacare.

reply to post by Hitemhard

what I was trying to express with my post was, that this whole "30-50 million" thing, is exxagerated in the first place since I remember the numbers being lower in the first place. So the excuse of "well 1/3rd of the country is uninsired" is garbage since they can't even seem to agree on the numbers of even illegals. Maybe they'd have a better foothold if they showed some hard data, and not spout numbers at random as they always do.

OK. Gotcha.

What we've got are 2 sets of numbers: total ininsured, and illegal aliens.

"46 to 50 million" total uninsured is completely bogus, so let's forget that for now.

"12 million" illegal aliens is also bogus, but less obviously so. Estimates range from 7 million to 20 million, with Mexican nationals making up between 55 and 60% of the total.

For Obama's purposes, we really don't kow how many he eliminated because we can't be sure what (bogus) starting number he was working from.

Assuming the lowest of the bogus uninsured estimates, we have 45 million. If there are "30 million (citizens and legal residents) who can't get insurance" as Obama said, then he must have assumed a total illegal immigrant population of somewhere around 15 million.

It doesn't matter anyway, since they're getting amnesty.

jw