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What do we have to do to gain credibility? I am about to quit.

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posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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Well none of us know the damage and the outcome of the Alex Jones fiasco, but that aside, what does the Truth Movement have to do to gain credibility? I am honestly thinking of "throwing in the towel" and calling it a day and just read about UFO's and what not.

It is frustrating on so many levels and for me at least has been building for a long time.

From the beginning the movement has been hounded by people who have put out the most ridiculous of theories or on purpose put out stuff that can easily be debunked (Just think of In Plain Sight).

Now we have some scientific tests that have been done, but the debate is not on the findings but is centered on whether or not the Open Journal is really a Peer Review Journal or has any credibility.

It seems nothing is straightforward anymore.


I have some thoughts on how we might gain credibility but I would like to hear others voice there.

Here are just a few of my thoughts.


#1. Engage and learn from Skeptics ( I am not talking about die hard debunkers who's sole purpose is to argue against the obvious)

I am talking about Skeptics who hold a different viewpoint and who actually might have something valid to say, or might correct an error in the facts we report.

This is about the Truth after all, and we should try as hard as we can to put aside "winning the argument" for "searching for Truth."

If we don't respect others who hold a different viewpoint, that makes us intolerant. Tolerance is tolerating people who are different or hold different viewpoints. Tolerance goes a long way in gaining one respect and it makes others take you seriously.

#2. Doing more then arguing back and forth and in circles on the internet. The net has become a place that catches people like flies and keeps them there.

Now don't get me wrong, there are certain facts and arguments that are valid and need our full attention, but we have to *balance* ourselves lest we waiste our energy on such so that more important things are not addressed or looked into.

#3. Demand of OUR OWN (People who believe the OFFICIAL STORY IS FALSE).

Don't just glorify David Griffin or Steven Jones, respectfully challenge them and have your own ideas challenged. Of course we can applaud those and the hard work they are doing but in order for the movement to remain strong, we should be more demanding.


Those are just a few of the ideas floating around my head right now. The way I see the Truth movement currently, it is stuck in the mud and all of these issues will be a future talking point, much like JFK. If that is the future of this, I don't want to continue.

If the future of 9/11 Truth is Alex Jones and his Charlie Sheen fantasies, then count me out.




posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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Top thread... about time someone raised the question.

I can put it down to one thing - I think we have to accept that the 'truth' is a little closer to the 'official story' than people think, or are comfortable with.

No plane theory, beams from outer space, buildings with explosives mixed into the concrete, even controlled demolition... when you add all of these together, it just comes across as absurd. But the catch is, there's no official truth movement with an official truth 'bible' which helps us reach an official truther point of view - our collective concerns just become this massive pile of silliness concocted from the ether...

That's it. I'm going to write a 'truther bible'.

Rew



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:11 PM
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First off, stop treating this like it is ruining your "credibility" because when it comes down to it, your credibility does not exist. you do. this isen't some spiritual nut job saying this, this is fact. if you believe what other people say affect you, go ahead. enjoy the plunder. but if you realize it does not matter, then enjoy the up rising.


I for one, am not pleased people still think like this. i may just leave ATS due to you all damaging my "credibility"



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:12 PM
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Well....for starters, I think the answer is really pretty simple. If you want to someday have credibility, which is a pretty vague subject in itself, you can't quit.

You have to outlast the ones that would destroy your work or plot to discredit or argue meaningless points.

Don't take the AJ thing too seriously. He has always been on the fringe and and though he gave a lot of steam to a movement that needed some, he's only one man.

Just like you.

Just keep doing what you do. You will probably NEVER get the WHOLE truth, which would be great, in a way, if you did, but it just can't be. I don't think that absolute truth of what happened that day is digestible by the whole population until they have made their way to place in which they can understand. Nothing you can do will speed that time up for them, so you have to wait. Keep polishing, keep reading, keep throwing points out and sharing with people that are willing to look at it a little differently than how we have all been programmed.

The time will come. That I can guarantee, but when they WANT you to quit, and you give them what they want, there is no hope for ANY truth become art of our consciousness.

Just lay low, take a breather, let some of the dirt wash away and come back in recharged and loaded for bare.



[edit on 9-9-2009 by KSPigpen]



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:12 PM
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First, you need to quit being part of the problem.

It is not the truth movement that needs credibility. It is the people who supplied an inconsistent, and impossible official story who lack credibility.

Instead of holding fast and demanding answers and proof of their ridiculous claims, we divide ourselves into tiny little groups which waste no time in belittling and attacking eachother. All while losing sight of the original goal of having our questions answered.

There is no room for conspiracies when we know the truth. They are an unnecessary byproduct of lies that cannot be substantiated.

FOR EXAMPLE.

The United States Government has the power, to absolutely obliterate every single Pentagon related conspiracy by doing one simple thing. Releasing 1 video, of a Boeing slamming into the building at 550 MPH.

This one video, which no doubt exists, as evidenced by the ten's of cameras which would have captured the event, has the power to eliminate any need for a conspiracy theory.

Instead, they do not release these videos, because these videos do not substantiate their claim.

If you want to actually learn something, I suggest reading my thread:

Conspiracy Theory: The Conspiracy theory of all Conspiracy Theories



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by talisman
 


We don't have to gain credibility. If people don't want the truth that is their problem not ours.

Alex Jones destroyed his credibility but if people will use that to say all other things he said must therefore be false then they are using logical fallacies and have no logical right for example to say that 9/11 is not an inside job because Alex Jones said it is an inside job.

I have a tough time believing other people won't be filling the void left by Alex Jones.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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Excellent post totally agree. Always keep looking and when all seems lost "Never Give Up."



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by truthquest
reply to post by talisman
 


We don't have to gain credibility. If people don't want the truth that is their problem not ours.

Alex Jones destroyed his credibility but if people will use that to say all other things he said must therefore be false then they are using logical fallacies and have no logical right for example to say that 9/11 is not an inside job because Alex Jones said it is an inside job.

I have a tough time believing other people won't be filling the void left by Alex Jones.




People don't see things like this. The tendency of people (public) is to "lump" things together. Whether it is wrong or right is not the issue, its just the way it is.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by king9072
 



The United States Government has the power, to absolutely obliterate every single Pentagon related conspiracy by doing one simple thing. Releasing 1 video, of a Boeing slamming into the building at 550 MPH.

This one video, which no doubt exists, as evidenced by the ten's of cameras which would have captured the event, has the power to eliminate any need for a conspiracy theory.


There's a video of the explosion, but it's a slow frame-rate camera that didn't catch the plane coming in.

Can you specify which possible cameras near the pentagon could have definitely caught the plane coming in?

Otherwise it's perfectly reasonable to assume there's no footage that exists. There's also many witnesses who claim to have seen the plane.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:25 PM
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We should stick to discerning the facts, and determining where to go from there. Deny ignorance, etc...

Too many ATS'ers decide "I believe what makes me feel better" and proceed from there.

Wrong approach IMO.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by talisman
 


Have 1 person involved in the 'conspiracy' come forward, and admit it was a government operation.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by talisman
If the future of 9/11 Truth is Alex Jones and his Charlie Sheen fantasies, then count me out.


That, I think, is the first sentiment today that I can agree with.

If you want the 9/11 truth movement to go anywhere but a tinfoil lined basement to be laughed at, the key is gathering the evidence and getting a fund going to get together a good legal team and investigators to collect and put together evidence. HARD evidence, not stills of media footage with cute little arrows and diagrams.

And of course, ditch the highly questionable, weird theories when doing so. Start with the things that have HARD evidence. Witness accounts, paper trails, money trails, documents, ect.

Unfortunately, it seems that the "movement is unlikely to get anywhere, because no one is taking the proper action.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by talisman
 


Have 1 person involved in the 'conspiracy' come forward, and admit it was a government operation.



That would help the case. But credibility can be gained through rational discourse/logic and by use of reason.

I personally feel there is just too much to fight against, there is just too much working against those who earnestly want answers.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:34 PM
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The rumours of Alex Jones Demise have been greatly exagerated.

9/11 was an inside job there is no doubt in my mind. Who did it?

Intelligence agencies all over the world had a hand in it for sure. Certain government officials all around the world. This was a global event not just a US event. Governments all over the world have used 9/11 to push police state policies and to become part of the wars in the middle east(for a stake in the spoils.

We are literally hit over the head with info that counters the official story and some still don't get it and the powers that be laugh at our idiocy.

I think with many of their occult beliefs they actually need us to know they did it. Even warning us it was going to happen like the Neo drivers licensee in Matrix or the lone gunman episode.

All the way to just imo being so lazy in the operation that they would just rely on Hitler's "big Lie" philosophy to protect them.
Wiki: Hitler-The Big Lie

Seeing such hubris and knowing all the facts how could anyone even consider giving up.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Originally posted by talisman
If the future of 9/11 Truth is Alex Jones and his Charlie Sheen fantasies, then count me out.


That, I think, is the first sentiment today that I can agree with.

If you want the 9/11 truth movement to go anywhere but a tinfoil lined basement to be laughed at, the key is gathering the evidence and getting a fund going to get together a good legal team and investigators to collect and put together evidence. HARD evidence, not stills of media footage with cute little arrows and diagrams.

And of course, ditch the highly questionable, weird theories when doing so. Start with the things that have HARD evidence. Witness accounts, paper trails, money trails, documents, ect.

Unfortunately, it seems that the "movement is unlikely to get anywhere, because no one is taking the proper action.



That is a good post man. WE have to stick with the *hard evidence* and avoid endless speculation that goes nowhere. Search for evidence that will and can be used in a court of law.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 11:15 PM
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I believe the right approach to gain "credibility" would be to stop creating stories, theories, and conspiracies, and only concentrate on debunking the official story.

In other words, don't mention NWO or that the government did it or that it at least allowed it to happen.

Simply prove that the OS is a lie to the majority of people. Once it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the official story is a lie, THEN concentrate on finding out WHO are the responsible ones for the 9/11 attacks.

What puts off many people from even trying to think about the validity of the official story is that the "truth movement" has so many different theories and places the blame on several different entities, or that there are several versions of "what actually happened" that the majority of people simply won't be convinced with so many different and conflicting ideas.

In my opinion, all theories of what actually happened should be discarded or put aside, and all efforts should be concentrated on debunking the official story without placing blame on the government, NWO, etc.

Once this step is done, get back to theorizing who did it and exactly what exactly happened.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by talisman
 


Most Truthers do not follow AJ. AJ just destroyed what little credibility he had left.
I do agree with most of your post, however, I do hope you continue talking about the truth of 911 and continue to post your ideas. We as people who demand a new investigation into 911 must not give up EVER! It is up to us to try and get people to see the truth. If we give up, then we are giving up on our country and the American people.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by talisman

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Originally posted by talisman
If the future of 9/11 Truth is Alex Jones and his Charlie Sheen fantasies, then count me out.


That, I think, is the first sentiment today that I can agree with.

If you want the 9/11 truth movement to go anywhere but a tinfoil lined basement to be laughed at, the key is gathering the evidence and getting a fund going to get together a good legal team and investigators to collect and put together evidence. HARD evidence, not stills of media footage with cute little arrows and diagrams.

And of course, ditch the highly questionable, weird theories when doing so. Start with the things that have HARD evidence. Witness accounts, paper trails, money trails, documents, ect.

Unfortunately, it seems that the "movement is unlikely to get anywhere, because no one is taking the proper action.



That is a good post man. WE have to stick with the *hard evidence* and avoid endless speculation that goes nowhere. Search for evidence that will and can be used in a court of law.


You said the magic words there. COURT OF LAW. because ultimately, that's the only route that will get us anywhere. It's their game, their system, and if you are gonna fight them, you use the same tools and weapons they use to hide, evade, and protect themselves.

They do it behind the bureaucracy and legal nitpicking, and that's what we need to do if we are ever gonna take the fortress.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 11:57 PM
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reply to post by Beefcake
 


Yet not a single person has come forward. There's just no credibility without a confession from a participant.



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by talisman

Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by talisman
 


Have 1 person involved in the 'conspiracy' come forward, and admit it was a government operation.



That would help the case. But credibility can be gained through rational discourse/logic and by use of reason.

I personally feel there is just too much to fight against, there is just too


my old screename "xtc_savedmylife" i detail how I met with someone that worked for communication with the govt. back then.. and i would swear my life on this as I have previously stated.. if you can still find it under that name.. u can read GL



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