Congressman Yells 'You Lie' During Obama Speech

reply to post by infolurker

I don't care if we have healthcare reform as long as it is as GOOD OR BETTER than what I have today!

To trust the government at all is down right stupid. The republicans and the democrats are working for corporate and banking interests, and not the US citizen. This was brought home to American farmers when first Clinton, then Bush and now Obama sided with Monsanto, and the Ag/Pharma Cartel to sell out not only the US farmers and consumers but the poor the world over. History of the Food Supply Take Over

If you do not think the Banks, insurance companies and the Ag/Pharma Cartel are going to be the winners in this health Care bill you are nuts.

Here are a couple of examples of how the banks are going to benefit. First the money for this program has to be borrowed, and the money borrowed is created out of thin air by the FED. What happens to your increase in tax dollars then? The banks get ALL of it!

"With two-thirds of everyone's personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government." - from the Grace Commission Report famguardian.org...

Here is the other way banks are going to profit from the Health Care bill

The bankers plan to buy “life settlements,” life insurance policies that ill and elderly people sell for cash — $400,000 for a $1 million policy, say, depending on the life expectancy of the insured person. Then they plan to “securitize” these policies, in Wall Street jargon, by packaging hundreds or thousands together into bonds. They will then resell those bonds to investors, like big pension funds, who will receive the payouts when people with the insurance die.

The earlier the policyholder dies, the bigger the return — though if people live longer than expected, investors could get poor returns or even lose money....
www.nytimes.com...

Opponents of the bills made the following claims:

• Claim 1: PG 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life.
  
  
• Claim 2: PG 425 Lines 17-19 Government will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!
  
  
• Claim 3: PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death.
  
  
• Claim 4: PG 429 Lines 1-9 An “advance care planning consultant” will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.
  
  
• Claim 5: PG 429 Lines 10-12 “advance care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from Government.
  
  
• Claim 6: PG 429 Lines 13-25 The Government will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order. Logan’s Run anyone?
  
  
• Claim 7: PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.
  

These claims were matched with what was in Bill and explored at ATS The claims were found to be true or to have at least have some basis


So add up the facts:

"End of Life" care is to be regulated by the government including withholding of care.
Bankers/Speculators will make more money if you croak as soon as possible
Discussions of denying health care based on the cost benefit ratio depending on age and other factors
Your health care records may become public domain

I find this behind the scenes scenario very chilling indeed. Is this what the advocates of health care wish. Banker/Speculators who find it advantagious to have the government commit "legal murder"?

As a republican, and an opponent of the healthcare bill, I am embarrassed and ashamed of Rep Wilson's outburst. Whether he was correct in his assertion that Obama was lying or not, it was completely inappropriate to make such an outburst.

That being said, I believe that Wilson allowed his emotions to get the best of him and opened his mouth without thinking. That's no excuse, but at the same time I can understand the frustration he must have been experiencing, especially given the magnitude of the debate over this legislation.

I'm not sure if he should be punished. He apologized and I think it's best if we just moved on.

Originally posted by Mak Manto

Originally posted by stevegmu

Originally posted by Mak Manto
Can you say nutcase?

When Obama explicitly states that illegal immigrants will not be covered by insurance, there is no, "you lie."

They will not be covered for insurance.

Can you point me to the section in HR3200 specifically prohibiting illegals from being covered?

Can you point me that says it won't?

Though, here is the thing, Steve.

If you are here illegally, that is, if you are not able to present evidence that you came into this country through legal means, you will not be given insurance.

This is already how it is with illegal immigrants and health care. Current law states that illegal immigrants are not able to get it.

It'll be the same for the new bill.

Though, and President Obama has said this, I wouldn't have a problem with an exception to children of illegal immigrants.

Come sit in a Texas ER and tell me they can't get health care without proof of legal residency. That claim is a sham. They fill our ERs and no they can't get insurance but they sure get healthcare and we pay for it.

reply to post by daddio


Many proponents of national health care say that the Constitution does provide for this in the preamble:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

It is their belief that 'promoting the general welfare' allows for such policy to be made.

The meaning of the word Welfare in the Constitution is different from its current usage. The constitutional meaning of welfare is: 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being.

[edit on 10-9-2009 by Freenrgy2]

reply to post by Rasputin13


It was like a town hall meeting in the halls of Congress!

It's happened on both sides of the aisle.

Civility? Decorum? RESPECT? Pffft! Though my opinion clearly will disagree with the opinion I have seen Skeptic Overlord state on this topic numerous times in regards to these traits (that opinion being that they are THE most important values to hold to, at least at ATS) we're talking about an issue which will cost the American tax payers well over a trillion dollars. F civility, F decorum, and F respect! Obama is what he is and it's about damn time our elected representative start calling him out in disruptive manners over his lies!

I'm disappointed in Wilson, but not because he shouted down at a man deserving of being shouted down. I'm disappointed that he didn't call Obama out on more of his lies and I'm VERY disappointed he appologized afterward. He displayed honesty and a passion for truthfullness, both highly admirable traits which should never be appologized for.

Originally posted by Debsturrs
nothing but disresepct.
republicans are seriously annoying me.

Where does it say we have to respect the president? Did you respect all the former presidents?
Respect is earned, not given.

Originally posted by stevegmu

Originally posted by Mak Manto
Can you say nutcase?

When Obama explicitly states that illegal immigrants will not be covered by insurance, there is no, "you lie."

They will not be covered for insurance.

Can you point me to the section in HR3200 specifically prohibiting illegals from being covered?

...though confused about the stars for asking a question that has been answered over and over and could easily be looked up...I will assume your question was legit.

Page 143..Sec 246 of HR3200
explicitly states..With a hard to misinterpret heading...

NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS

"Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."

* FYI this is one of those propaganda pieces that resonates on dual levels....It's a lie that ping-pongs off of some people's established prejudice and xenophobia. Ya know...the idea that illegal aliens are going to take their jobs, homes and invade their towns and date their daughters.

The discussion or any rebuttal to the lie gets lost in an emotional storm (as a "hot button" issue is intended to do) The emotion distracts from examining the veracity of the statement.

It is the same reason the "Obama is a Muslim" lie persists. The response is inherently distracted by...who cares? and whether it is an endorsement of bigotry and prejudice to even rebut the lie...rebutting the lie means that the claim must be rebutted...what is wrong with being Muslim etc etc.

*Also HR3200 is the only bill anyone in congress or the whitehouse or the AMA etc is taking seriously thus far.

As far as I know the rest is just convenient BS. Yes there are other reform bills floating around out there. Obama made mention of the congressman last night that has been introducing the same reform bill each year since his father introduced it over 40 years ago….

So it seems the whole “which one” tactic is just that and has little place beyond a BS distraction tool. Please correct me if I am wrong.


[edit on 10-9-2009 by maybereal11]

What? No one has called this guy a racist yet? No one has asked the Black Panthers to be relocated away from the voter booth to this guy's neighborhood? I am shocked.... How can this be right? Obviously anyone that is white and disagrees with der Leader is racist.

Not sure why so many people are upset that a rep did this to a dem. The dems have been doing this to Bush for 8 years. Glad to see it being returned. I would like to see a complete changing of the guard though and welcome bans on term limits for congressmen and women.

If this guy was going to do this, it should have been part of a plan. He wasted his chance. He should have said it, followed up with more info and kept it up. That would have been constructive. Instead, he shouted out and didn't have anything to follow up with.

Not only was Joe Wilson well within his rights, he was telling the truth. I have taken the time to read a large portion of the health care reform 'bill' presented by the democrats and Mr. Obama. It most certainly has provisions for illegal aliens.

Illegals get medicaid and food stamps, what makes anyone think things are going to change?

Whether or not it was a lie, or even a slight bending of the truth notwithstanding, the previous president was the most shameless liar ever to hold the office and nobody ever treated him with such disdain.

It was out of line, and now the whole world can see just how far the once admired United States has sunk into the mud.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Your signature line is my favorite. Tell me that is a bumper sticker!

I also completely agree with your post. Those two traits should not be apologized for although they will generate the most anger as most don't know how to deal with someone that has those traits.

Originally posted by traderjack
I have taken the time to read a large portion of the health care reform 'bill' presented by the democrats and Mr. Obama. It most certainly has provisions for illegal aliens.

Illegals get medicaid and food stamps, what makes anyone think things are going to change?

"YOU LIE"!! ...just kidding...well kind of.

You are lieing or are confused. This debate has been filled with BS so far so if you are going to call out President a liar why don't you do us a favor and cite specific page numbers and passages of the bill to back up your claims.

...like I did above when I provided the clause forbidding coverage of illegal aliens.

All this talk of a socialist health care system blah blah blah blah...

I got to tell you, I do not care if it is socialist, communist, capitalist, or any other word you want to attach to it. Fact is the Government screws up everything they touch way worse than I ever could. I would have to be a complete fool to think they would do an acceptable job with my health care.

Originally posted by Angus123
the previous president was the most shameless liar ever to hold the office and nobody ever treated him with such disdain.

Are you joking??

Bush hasn't even been out of office for a year and you cannot remember him being treated with disdain at all?

Really??

reply to post by xmaddness

My God! I've often thought that there should be an age verification for membership, but now I'm convinced there should be an intelligence test!

Do you think what Rep. Joe Wilson did was justified? Why do you think this?

Yes. Because he does.

Want some examples?
1. "47 million who do not have insurance" becomes "30 million who can't get insurance." Where's the 17 million that he's cited and relied on for the past 2 years?
2. "Mr. Raddatz' treatment was denied by the insurance company, and he died." Mr. Raddatz' treatment WAS PAID FOR by the ins. co. and he died 3-1/2 years later from other causes.
3. His Health Care czar, Zeke Emannuel advocates withholding services for the infirm, and Section 1233 of HR 3200 allows for and PAYS for services such as this!
4. Section 202 of HR 3200 permits illegal aliens to participate in the "public option."
(If you need more examples, just ask; one is all it takes to make BHO a liar.)

Does this outburst set a new precedent for more "colorful" debates in the house and congress? If so, is this a good thing or a bad thing?

No.

It has been done before.

In 2004, Democrats delivered a “Chorus Of Boos” during Bush’s State Of The Union when he called for renewal of the Patriot Act.

No one did anything then, did they? Where's the ATS thread on THAT one?

In 2005, Dems howled, hissed and shouted “No!” when Bush pushed for Social Security reform in the SOU. Democrats broke decorum and booed twice.

Where's the outrage? Where's the ATS thread? Where were all you supporters who cry so loud today? Still in high school? Just lacked guts?

All of the pitiful mewling here is disgusting and embarassing. This forum should be off limits to anyone who does not demonstrate at least a minimum knowledge of history, the scientific method, and politics.

Or at least common sense.

jw

[edit on 10-9-2009 by jdub297]

reply to post by maybereal11


Section 242 States illegals will not receive health care. However, the section of the bill that would require e-verify in order to obtain .gov insurance was struck down!

"Under H.R. 3200, a 'Health Insurance Exchange' would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on NON-CITZENS---Whether legally or ILLEGALLY present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently -- participating in the Exchange."

So, before you say I am 'confused' or call me a 'liar', check your damned facts! Moreover, the HC bill is small potatoes compared to the other Marxist BS on Obama's agenda!

Better read this fast, the mods will be striking it down quick enough! I defended myself and critricized the chosen one and that's 'un-American'!

1018 page bill: Sec. 59B, Pg. 170, Line 1—“Any NONRESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes.”

This is from the proposed HC bill!


And the quote on my earlier thread, It was Nancy Pelosi!

[edit on 10-9-2009 by traderjack]

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
reply to post by Bombeni

 

As I stated on the last page. Wal-Mart's across the country will soon start having hospital based walk-in clinics inside, much like the eye care center or Papa Murphy's Pizza!

Who do you think will take advantage of these? The goal is to drive people to these clinics for non-emergency situations instead of the ER.

Already happening in Texas - Walmarts do have clinics. However, they are not free like the ER.

reply to post by traderjack


I appreciate the effort...can you please provide me with a link or two to investigate you claims?

Otherwise anyone can spout anything...understand?