I think the first plane hit the wrong building.

reply to post by Pilgrum

Pilgrum said.......
I've yet to see any evidence of any explosions of sufficient magnitude btw)

Well maybe you should watch this video then. Pay particular attention to the windows blowing out just before the building collapses for no apparent reason.

I can't seem to get the video to post so the link is......HERE

One reason why the south tower might have collapsed first, if indeed it was "made" to collapse. Could be that the firefighters had made it to the crash zone/collapse zone in the south tower first.

The supposed perpetrators realized they had to act now or risk the operation being compromised. If you do believe in a CD of the complex you have to believe that the perps were trying to minimize casualties as much as possible.

What I meant by damage being 15 floors lowers is

Lowest impact point on South Tower - 78th floor

Lowest impact point North Tower - 93 th floor

93 - 78 = 15 Did anyone pass arithmetic here?

This answers the question of why WTC2 was brought down 1st, no raging fires, no building showing signs of collapse, forget what people THINK happened, instead, take a look at pure facts and ask yourself why x2 fireman managed to get to the 78th storey in a building being ravaged by fire and showing signs of collapse!!!!!!

whatreallyhappened.com...

And what happened next.

reply to post by Psychoses


That video appears to be concerning WTC7 primarily and it's quite a good angle on the collapse. I still see nothing strange about windows failing in a collapsing building caused by distortion of the superstructure itself - no obvious evidence of explosives to be seen. For clarification I mean explosions large enough to cause total failure of any part of that structure.

EDIT: Just got to watch the whole video which is shot from an angle I hadn't previously seen - thanks for posting that link

The WTC7 shot is a valuable asset for analysis but I still see no sign of building-wrecking explosions though in either tower. Something to note is that the building is already in motion when those windows fail which doesn't support the notion of explosions initiating the collapse.


[edit on 10/9/2009 by Pilgrum]

reply to post by Psychoses


Well i for one cant understand how one tower that was hit last came down first.
20 mins after the first missile hit the first tower .
Isnt that a smoking gun?

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by Psychoses

 

It was simple physics

South tower was struck 15 floors lower than North (78 to 83 floors vs
93 to 98) - that meant hundred of thousands of tons more weight
to be supported by structure

Simple physics YES!

That means there was more steel to support that added weight and more difficult for the airliner to damage and more steel for any fire to heat up. BELIEVERS only look at the data from the side that supports their beliefs.

Why don't we have a table specifying the tons of steel and tons of concrete that were on every level and why hasn't the physics profession been demanding that information for TEN YEARS?

psik

I just want to throw this in there...

The South Tower did collapse first...and ironically it began to collapse as soon as the firefighters confirmed they could keep the fires under control. Out of complete speculation, I'm going to say if charges were detonated then maybe someone was monitoring all emergency radio communications, they heard the firefighters managed to make it to the point of impact with the realization that the fires were not the "burning inferno" as described by government sponsored experts.

9:52 a.m.

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Battalion Seven Alpha." "Freddie, come on over. Freddie, come on over by us."
Battalion Seven Chief:

"Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones."

Ladder 15: "What stair are you in, Orio?"
Battalion Seven Aide: "Seven Alpha to lobby command post."
Ladder Fifteen: "Fifteen to Battalion Seven."
Battalion Seven Chief: "... Ladder 15."
Ladder 15: "Chief, what stair you in?"
Battalion Seven Chief: "South stairway Adam, South Tower."
Ladder 15: "Floor 78?"
Battalion Seven Chief: "Ten-four, numerous civilians, we gonna need two engines up here."
Ladder 15: "Alright ten-four, we're on our way."

9:52 a.m.

Battalion Seven Aide: "Seven Alpha for Battalion Seven."
Battalion Seven Chief: "South tower, Steve, south tower, tell them...Tower one. Battalion
Seven to Ladder 15. "Fifteen."
Battalion Seven Chief: "I'm going to need two of your firefighters Adam stairway to knock down two fires. We have a house line stretched we could use some water on it, knock it down, kay."
Ladder 15: "Alright ten-four, we're coming up the stairs. We're on 77 now in the B stair, I'll be right to you."
Ladder 15 Roof: "Fifteen Roof to 15. We're on 71. We're coming right up."

9:57 a.m.

"Division 3 ... lobby command, to the Fieldcom command post."
Battalion Seven Chief: "Operations Tower One to floor above Battalion Nine."
Battalion Nine Chief: "Battalion Nine to command post."
Battalion Seven Operations Tower One:

"Battalion Seven Operations Tower One to Battalion Nine, need you on floor above 79. We have access stairs going up to 79, kay."

Battalion Nine: "Alright, I'm on my way up Orio."
Ladder 15 OV: "Fifteen OV to Fifteen."
Ladder 15: "Go ahead Fifteen OV, Battalion Seven Operations Tower One."
Ladder 15 OV: "Stuck in the elevator, in the elevator shaft, you're going to have to get a difference elevator. We're chopping through the wall to get out."
Battalion Seven Chief: "Radio lobby command with that Tower One."

9:58 a.m.

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Ladder 15."

(END OF TAPE)

Once again, this is complete speculation. Just wanted to throw that notion in there

Originally posted by homervb
I just want to throw this in there...

The South Tower did collapse first...and ironically it began to collapse as soon as the firefighters confirmed they could keep the fires under control. Out of complete speculation, I'm going to say if charges were detonated then maybe someone was monitoring all emergency radio communications, they heard the firefighters managed to make it to the point of impact with the realization that the fires were not the "burning inferno" as described by government sponsored experts.

Once again, this is complete speculation. Just wanted to throw that notion in there

But it's damned reasonable speculation. I thought of the same thing as soon as I read the OP but it is not the stuff I normally talk about.

psik

reply to post by psikeyhackr

Why don't we have a table specifying the tons of steel and tons of concrete that were on every level and why hasn't the physics profession been demanding that information for TEN YEARS?

Its in the NIST report - you just can't be bothered to read it. Too bad.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

Why don't we have a table specifying the tons of steel and tons of concrete that were on every level and why hasn't the physics profession been demanding that information for TEN YEARS?

Its in the NIST report - you just can't be bothered to read it. Too bad.

You just keep claiming that. I notice you have not specified the total for the concrete and told us where it is.

psik

Originally posted by psikeyhackr

Originally posted by homervb
I just want to throw this in there...

The South Tower did collapse first...and ironically it began to collapse as soon as the firefighters confirmed they could keep the fires under control. Out of complete speculation, I'm going to say if charges were detonated then maybe someone was monitoring all emergency radio communications, they heard the firefighters managed to make it to the point of impact with the realization that the fires were not the "burning inferno" as described by government sponsored experts.

Once again, this is complete speculation. Just wanted to throw that notion in there

But it's damned reasonable speculation. I thought of the same thing as soon as I read the OP but it is not the stuff I normally talk about.

psik

Haha, well on this forum you get crucified if you speculate anything. I'll take another leap of faith and say (out of complete speculation once again) that the charges (if CD happened to be the case) for WTC 1 & 2 were detonated from within WTC 7. My speculation branches from the fact that several of the most important offices of US Intelligence agencies, including a CIA false front, were located inside WTC 7. I'm not saying our own government set off these detonators, but consider things such as foreign government intelligence agents (managing to penetrate our gov't agencies) with their fingers on the button. (I'm trying to avoid the whole inside job theory) Now once again, before I get nailed to a cross, THIS IS COMPLETE SPECULATION. I don't feel like being verbally sodomized by some of the hard headed OSers out there.

Originally posted by psikeyhackr

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

Why don't we have a table specifying the tons of steel and tons of concrete that were on every level and why hasn't the physics profession been demanding that information for TEN YEARS?

Its in the NIST report - you just can't be bothered to read it. Too bad.

You just keep claiming that. I notice you have not specified the total for the concrete and told us where it is.

psik

Sorry, you can't be bothered to read the one document that list the answers to the question you've been asking for years so I'll be damned if I am going to do your research for you while you insult the world's engineers, scientist and not to mention all Americans.

reply to post by hooper


The fact that you state its there does not make it so, I know you cant really grasp that concept, but its so regardless.

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by psikeyhackr

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

Why don't we have a table specifying the tons of steel and tons of concrete that were on every level and why hasn't the physics profession been demanding that information for TEN YEARS?

Its in the NIST report - you just can't be bothered to read it. Too bad.

You just keep claiming that. I notice you have not specified the total for the concrete and told us where it is.

psik

Sorry, you can't be bothered to read the one document that list the answers to the question you've been asking for years so I'll be damned if I am going to do your research for you while you insult the world's engineers, scientist and not to mention all Americans.

Dude, you do know that there are 1000s of experts that support the CD theory and someone like you insults them every day by saying they're dead wrong and have no idea what they're talking about, right? And yes, they are American, too. Sounds like a double edged sword to me.

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by psikeyhackr

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

Why don't we have a table specifying the tons of steel and tons of concrete that were on every level and why hasn't the physics profession been demanding that information for TEN YEARS?

Its in the NIST report - you just can't be bothered to read it. Too bad.

You just keep claiming that. I notice you have not specified the total for the concrete and told us where it is.

psik

Sorry, you can't be bothered to read the one document that list the answers to the question you've been asking for years so I'll be damned if I am going to do your research for you while you insult the world's engineers, scientist and not to mention all Americans.

One document! ROFL

50 some reports of over 10,000 pages. But it is in electronic form I searched it for every occurrence of concrete and steel and read all of them. They specify the total for the steel in three places. They never specify the total for the concrete. The distributions down the buildings for either the steel or the concrete is not there.

psik

reply to post by psikeyhackr

50 some reports of over 10,000 pages. But it is in electronic form I searched it for every occurrence of concrete and steel and read all of them. They specify the total for the steel in three places. They never specify the total for the concrete. The distributions down the buildings for either the steel or the concrete is not there.

Yes it is. You just can't "search" for it. You have to actually read the document. But you never will. We all know that. Because even if someone etched your numbers in stone and hand delivered them to your house it would all be moot because your "theory" is pure rubbish. In your world of twisted physics buildings can never collapse because if a building can stand, it is incapable of falling.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

50 some reports of over 10,000 pages. But it is in electronic form I searched it for every occurrence of concrete and steel and read all of them. They specify the total for the steel in three places. They never specify the total for the concrete. The distributions down the buildings for either the steel or the concrete is not there.

Yes it is. You just can't "search" for it. You have to actually read the document. But you never will. We all know that. Because even if someone etched your numbers in stone and hand delivered them to your house it would all be moot because your "theory" is pure rubbish. In your world of twisted physics buildings can never collapse because if a building can stand, it is incapable of falling.

If the building is over 1000 feet tall and the top 15% is supposed to crush the rest that is.

You make a point of distorting information with gross oversimplifications just as you don't come up with the data you CLAIM is there and specify its location.

psik

reply to post by psikeyhackr

You make a point of distorting information with gross oversimplifications....

For instance:

If the building is over 1000 feet tall and the top 15% is supposed to crush the rest that is.