Obama: 'If you misrepresent what's in the plan, we will call you out'

I'm not expecting everyone to like the plan, Steve.

Universal health care does not mean universal popularity; let's be straight on that.

So, if you're against it, fine by me.

Originally posted by Mak Manto
Is President Obama not allowed to stick up for his ideas?

Real fair... Isn't that, oh, let me see, IGNORANT?

And what is the motto at ATS?

Deny ignorance.

Deny the ignorant thought that someone should not be allowed to strike back at someone who is denouncing their plan...

Ok first of all, the health bill is NOT Obama's plan.
It was crafted by other people.
Secondly, what reassurances do we have that he actually read the 1000+ page bill and if he did, that he understood every single aspect of it?

You see, the thing is...the president, regardless of who it is; follows an agenda given to him by his handlers.

I know this to be 100% fact
Listen to this speech by JFK where he states exactly that.

He was assassinated shortly thereafter.

[edit on 9-9-2009 by warrenb]

When the President said tonight that there would be a low cost
catastrophic care policy for low-income people, as Senator
John McCain proposed during the election cycle, was he describing
the Government option, or some kind of plan that private insurers
must offer? That statement came from him way ahead of his
explaination of the Government Insurance option. -cwm

reply to post by warrenb


That's not for you to decide upon, Warren.

The fact is, if opponents will try to heckle him, he has every right to strike back.

No buts about it.

Originally posted by Mak Manto
Universal health care does not mean universal popularity; let's be straight on that.

So, if you're against it, fine by me.

I think you got caught in the spider web of distortion of fact painted over with a pretty label to make it easy to swallow. I cant fault you for that.

I too want free health care. It sounds f'ing fantastic in principle but if you read the bill that the government wants to pass, it is anything but free. Sure they take a small amount each month out of your salary, no biggie.

This has been covered to death already so I wont post it but in a nutshell, the IRS gets more power to control your life and invade your privacy. The state gets to decide who lives and dies. Not having insurance is going to cost you a pretty penny regardless if you can afford it or not (both the insurance and the fine). Just a few issues amongst others.

What they've done is sugar coat fascism and the theft of liberty by using powerful keywords and titles.

Never underestimate the power of words as a tool and especially never forget to read the fine print.

reply to post by warrenb


The President admitted on an internet-based news conference during
late July that he hadn't read the House Bill that was (then) recently
approved. He was taken by complete surprise when one participant
read the section which doesn't allow people to change from one
private insurance company to another private insurance company.

Actually, I think he knows that the House Bill was designed to get
people into the Government Health Insurance plan both volunarily
and involuntarily. Smaller companies will gladly terminate their
company health insurance knowing that the employees will be taken
care of by the Government health insurance.
-cwm

Did anyone notice that ONE-THIRD of the "uninsured Americans" have dosappeared in the last 24 hours?

Until today, all the Obamacare proponents have been calling up the inflated figure of "47 million uninsured" (or 45, or 50) as justification for bankrupting small business, killing employer-paid coverage and driving insurance companies out of the market with a "public option.".

Tonight, BHO 'promised that "the 30 million Americans without insurance" will be able to get it!

Actually, he said they would be REQUIRED to get it, but that doesn't matter, does it?

Deny ignorance!

jw

Originally posted by patent98310
Many people need this; they do not have the money to pay for another accident or sickness. It works if it is done right, so that's what all of us should be working towards.

There must be reform.

You assume "it" is the only solution. There are other alternatives. Did you notice the members waving papers?

Those were Republican proposals that the Dems refuse to consider!

They're out there, you just need to look.

Did you know that a Democrat shot down a Health Care Reform bill during Bush's administration?

Know who it was? T. Kennedy (D-Mass.).

Deny ignorance.

jw

reply to post by warrenb


You've been lied to by people who don't want health care reform.

You're being told this by people who WANT THE SAME SYSTEM.

The system that sucks, the system EVERYONE SAYS THAT BLOWS, is being praised by people who are against Obama's plan.

How can you not see this?

All in all I listened to Obama's speech, and I really didnt have much of a problem with the proposals that he made...sans a few smaller details.

I agree that Americans shouldnt be hung out and left to die by greedy insurance companies who are nothing more than money rackateers and scum.

People should not have to die because they are too poor to afford health care. Period. And like it or not there are millions of people who cannot afford health insurance as things stand.

Im not entirely sold on Obama's health plan, but I agree in principle with most of what he is proposing and I find it difficult to understand why anyone would oppose the changes he is speaking of when it wont affect your coverage or your insurance choices in any way?

If anything it will create more competition and in turn will be better for you and I, the consumer. What is it that makes people wretch in such a bad way about affordable health care?

Im no Obama fan and I disagree with a great deal of the things this administration proposes, but I gotta admit I find little fault in this and I hope that many Republicans and conservatives aren't simply cutting off their own noses to spite their face.

Of course, if what he stated tonight turns out to be lies and half truths then he deserves to be raked over the coles. But from what I see thus far there isnt anything to be so angrily opposed to. I think the man is actually trying to help out poor working class people.

And he is right, we are the only advanced civilized nation in the entire world still allowing insurance and drug companies to rape us blind. Unless you work for an insurance company or a drug company or just hate your fellow American....why would you be against what is being offered?

reply to post by Mak Manto

How is it fair and balanced that opponents of health care get to call his plan socialist

Because the "public option" is socialist

that his plan will lead to death panels and such

Because his Health Care czar 'Zeke Emannuel has called for EXACTLY that, andSection 1233 of HR 3200 encourages and pays for the same

but when Obama says he will call them out on the the fact they're brandying fear, why is he bad?

Because he's lying about it. He's "brandying fear" to exaggerate numbers, minimize costs and eschew alternatives as misbegotten

He DOES intend to force a "public option"
He DOES intend to mandate insurance on everyone enforced by the IRS and fines
He DOES intend to force private coverage out and install a "single payer (government) system

Is President Obama not allowed to stick up for his ideas?

You just don't get it do you? These are NOT "his ideas." Although he's likely to create a draft of legislation of his own, the only reform seriously being considered came from Reps. Rangel and Waxman: HR 3200.

Obama saw what happened to the Clintons when THEY created a plan.
Hillary told him what to do when he made her fourth-in-command. He made a list of what he had to have in any bill that he would sign, then gave it to Congress to draft the legislation and take the fall if the people didn't like "his ideas."


Deny Ignorance!

jw

Originally posted by Mak Manto
The system that sucks, the system EVERYONE SAYS THAT BLOWS, is being praised by people who are against Obama's plan.

You used a double negative so I guess your agreeing with everything I've said.
Either that or you need another English course. In either case fantastic.

reply to post by BlackOps719

I find it difficult to understand why anyone would oppose the changes he is speaking of when it wont affect your coverage or your insurance choices in any way.

THAT is exactly why many are opposed to HR 3200 or a "public option."

Employers will be required to pay a penalty if their employee's programs are better than the public option.

They will be taxed on the benefits they provide or are already providing.

Insurers who offer programs better than the public option will be likewise penalized. They will not be able to compete with a public entity that does not need to return a profit or can run at a deficit.

(The CBO projects a $1trillion deficit for HR 3200. That means that the public will be providing a trillion dollars of services without paying for them. How do you compete with THAT?)

It will take a few years, but employers and insurers will not be able to compete or offer affordable coverage. You WILL lose your plan.

(Note that Obama said tonight that you "won't be forced to change" your coverage. Before tonight, he said "you will be able to KEEP your coverage." Notice the difference? A lawyer's words are always well chosen and do have significance.)

jw

No, without this bill, the status quo ensures that the private insurance companies continue to profit at the expense of American citizens.

Another corporation in the long list of corporations that take advantage of the American citizen, poison the American citizen, and fleece the American citizen out of trillions of dollars a year.

I say trillions as that is what your previous administration, as well as the current administration has given to these very same corporations. Any action whatsoever that works toward removing the power out of the hands of these corporations that basically own and control America should be applauded by US citizenry and encouraged.

It is no different from the federal reserve. The same federal reserve that controls the USofA It is no different from the military industrial complex that profits from the deaths of American soldiers as well as innocent civilians throughout the world. It is no different than the multinational corporations that pay off politicians and lobbyists in order to get exactly what they want via foreign and domestic policy.

Yet sadly, most Americans involved in this current debacle cannot even see that. They just continue to spew their partisan bigotry, and continue to spew the fear mongering rhetoric that they hear from their government backed media conglomerate.

Unfortunately, all of this current hysteria is playing right in to the hands of the corporations that currently benefit the most by maintaining the status quo.

Obama says what he's TOLD to say

So why worry what 'Obama Says ' ?


when everyone should be looking at who is REALLY doing the 'saying' .. and WHY they're saying it (through Obama's mouth)

Originally posted by warrenb

Originally posted by Mak Manto
The system that sucks, the system EVERYONE SAYS THAT BLOWS, is being praised by people who are against Obama's plan.

You used a double negative so I guess your agreeing with everything I've said.
Either that or you need another English course. In either case fantastic.

Stop it, Warren, this is not a laughing matter.

You're being told to believe that Obama's plan is bad, but let's be straight here. Insurance lobbyists will always be against health care reform, no matter what the reform is.

reply to post by jdub297




Im just wondering where has it been stated that private carriers would be penalized if they are unable to match the public option? That is a new one I haven't heard yet, just wondering if that is a definite or speculation.


Jdub...I hear what you are saying and I respect your status on this issue. As I said, if what Obama was saying tonight turns out to be false, which it may, then by all means he should answer for it.

But nowhere in what he was saying did I hear anything about trying to crush the insurance companies. All I heard him say was there would be a private option still available for those who wish to keep what they have, but also a cheaper and more affordable version for those of us who cannot foot the ridiculous bill for private coverage.

I happen to be one of the 30 million Americans who do not have health coverage of any kind. I am self employed, and although I could afford it, the cost would put a serious strain on my income. I am healthy and virtually never go to the doctor or ER, so it cant be said that I am being paid for by anyone else.

If you are making the case that a public option would put private insurers out of business, they will get no sympathy from me. They have been bleeding and gouging American workers for generations and the idea of them cutting their profit margins or folding up doesn't make me sad or troubled in any way.

No more monopoly, boo hoo, let me play a violin serenade for the poor insurance executives who will have to get a real job.

If they hadn't been such greed driven scoundrels for the last 200 years then they wouldnt have this problem today and a public affordable option wouldnt be necessary.

The cost of health coverage should NOT cost people half of their monthly income. Elderly people should NOT have to decide between filling prescriptions or eating every month. Little kids shouldn't have to die from treatable illnesses due to lack of insurance coverage.

If these things can be avoided by adding a public option then I say to hell with the insurance companies and their bottom line.

Originally posted by jdub297

He DOES intend to force private coverage out and install a "single payer (government) system

A? what was that?

How is he going to force an insurance option out?

First of all I thought the government was incompetent last I heard and agreed with.

The only way I could see that happening is if they get priced out -

And people will have the choice to chose what works best for them.

Maybe all of you should just keep your private insurance and the problem will be solved.

Just because there is a PUBLIC bus on my corner doesn't mean I can't call a cab
or buy a car.



[edit on 10-9-2009 by mental modulator]

As far as coverage we have just been pitched for MORE choice

and people who advocate freedom are against it?



A co op market place with a public option in that market place sounds like a damn good way to let the best man win IMO.

Originally posted by mental modulator

How is he going to force an insurance option out?

The government doesn't have to answer to "customers" or shareholders. They can spend money they don't have. They do not have to make a profit. (Most health ins. cos. only make modest profit, and that is returned to shareholders as dividends.)

First of all I thought the government was incompetent last I heard and agreed with.

They are. That's why the exisitng gov't health care pgms. (Medicaid and Medicare) run at huge deficits (i.e., losses) that taxpayers have to pick up. Between 10 and 20% of costs are due to fraud and waste. Both are BANKRUPT. (The funds budgeted and set aside for these expenses are gone. The gov't takes money from other programs like SSI and STILL LOSES MONEY) The VA is killing our veterans at increasing rates.

The only way I could see that happening is if they get priced out -

The Congressional Budget Office says the bill will add $1 trillion to the deficit. That means the government would be providing $1 trillion of services that they WON'T be able to pay for. (They make up the difference by printing more money, driving the value of everyone else's money DOWN. It's called "inflation" and it's coming real soon!)

If insurance companies, doctors and hospitals didn't get paid for $1 trillion of THEIR services, how long would you expect them to compete or keep costs the same?

And people will have the choice to chose what works best for them.

Once private doctors, carriers and other providers are gone, you will not have any choice.

Maybe all of you should just keep your private insurance and the problem will be solved.

We won't be able to. That's one reason people oppose the "public option."

If you listened, you heard Obama say, "You will not be forced to change your coverage." He used to say, "You will be able to keep your coverage."

There's a difference. If employers don't offer it any more, and ins. cos. can't compete, then we can't KEEP our ins. But, no one "forced" us to change; we just won't have a choice anymore.

A lawyer's choice of words have meaning and significance.

Just because there is a PUBLIC bus on my corner doesn't mean I can't call a cab or buy a car.

Anyone who is rich enough, will be able to find a private doctor somewhere. Just as anyone rich enough to afford a car doesn't have to ride a bus. NO PUBLIC TRANSPORT makes money. They all lose money that must be made up for by HIGHER TAXES for everyone else.

You picked a superb analogy.

Any other questions?

By the way, I do not like our present system. I hate insurance companies.

I've shared my ideas on that elsewhere. There are other options. I've posted them elsewhere as well.

Google "Republican health care" and you'll find at least 4 different bills that the Dems will never let see the light of day.

jw

[edit on 10-9-2009 by jdub297]