New Christian Discovery found in Da Vinci's Last Supper. The Holes in His Hands..

Originally posted by JesusVine
reply to post by MrDesolate

 

I see your point. So I will restate that The Da Vinci Code is one of the best selling books of all times. But this does not change the fact that the painting has faded over the years and the Bible interprets the scene as the meal Jesus had with his disciples after He had risen from the dead.

I posted to you a few pages back but I'm thinking you did not see my post.

In John's Gospel, the last meal Jesus ate with his disciples took place on the shore of the sea (Tiberias) at almost daybreak.

Hopefully you will go back and look at my post. I thought I left you some very thought provoking material.

Hi Jesus Vine

I'm not sure what chemicals you are snorting, but take a VERY CLOSE look at the Secco Fresco of Leonardo Da Vinci's LA CENA ULTIMA painted on the rear wall of the refectory of the Monastery of the Santa Marie Delle Grazie in Milano-- (1495-1497)

Are you seriously trying to debate the fact that R. Yehuda bar Shimeon Ish Keyiotah ('Judas Iscariot') is NOT the lowest figure in the panel clutching his coins and knocking over the table salt?

Clue: His is the fourth head from the left from the viewers point of view.

Are you blind, or are you just perhaps looking at another image of ANOTHER artist's 'Last Supper' possibly by another artist, such as the more mystical 'risen' version with the holes in the hands by Salvador Dali (1904-1989)?

Surely you cannot be referring to the Leonardo Cena Ultima when you say Judas is missing---he clearly is sitting right there up in front pressed up against R. Shimeon bar Yonah, Ha Kepha (Simon Peter)

Either that or you really ARE blind !!

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct


Please read these four accounts of the risen Christ.. Please notice John 20 where Jesus appears and say to Thomas “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.” After this in John 21 he appears again.. Please see next post for John 21.. Do you see?


Mark 16

The Great Commission


14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”



Luke 24

Jesus Appears to His Disciples


36 Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.” 37 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. 38 And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.[f] 41 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” 42 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb.[g] 43 And He took it and ate in their presence.


John 20

Seeing and Believing


24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.”
So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”
26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” 27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas,[d] because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct


John 21

Breakfast by the Sea

1 After these things Jesus showed Himself again to the disciples at the Sea of Tiberias, and in this way He showed Himself: 2 Simon Peter, Thomas called the Twin, Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two others of His disciples were together. 3 Simon Peter said to them, “I am going fishing.”
They said to him, “We are going with you also.” They went out and immediately[a] got into the boat, and that night they caught nothing. 4 But when the morning had now come, Jesus stood on the shore; yet the disciples did not know that it was Jesus. 5 Then Jesus said to them, “Children, have you any food?”
They answered Him, “No.”
6 And He said to them, “Cast the net on the right side of the boat, and you will find some.” So they cast, and now they were not able to draw it in because of the multitude of fish.
7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put on his outer garment (for he had removed it), and plunged into the sea. 8 But the other disciples came in the little boat (for they were not far from land, but about two hundred cubits), dragging the net with fish. 9 Then, as soon as they had come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid on it, and bread. 10 Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish which you have just caught.”
11 Simon Peter went up and dragged the net to land, full of large fish, one hundred and fifty-three; and although there were so many, the net was not broken. 12 Jesus said to them, “Come and eat breakfast.” Yet none of the disciples dared ask Him, “Who are You?”—knowing that it was the Lord. 13 Jesus then came and took the bread and gave it to them, and likewise the fish.
14 This is now the third time Jesus showed Himself to His disciples after He was raised from the dead.

reply to post by Sigismundus


Where have you been? I have said from the beginning Judas is not in the biblical interpretation of Leonardo Da Vinci's painting.

Please, go ahead and debate what the Bible says or doesn't say. There are lots of places on the internet with images of DaVincis "Last Supper". Look for yourselves. No and I repeat no holes. I've looked at that painting lots in books over the years and today on the internet. Various ones taken after it was cleaned etc. No holes. Hoax.

reply to post by michial



look again..And read your bible

Originally posted by JesusVine
reply to post by Keeper of Kheb

 

Zoom in on the picture in this link.. Is it a bag or rag of some type?? Is hard to tell. .I'm still looking.

Hi/
In this painting Jesus Christ tells His Apostles that one of them will betray Him....all of them are amazed as to who this person is that wil betray their teacher.

ICXC NIKA
helen

SO your saying, JesusVine, that this painting painted by Di Vinci 1800 years after Jesus went to heaven, proves that Jesus had the Last Supper after he had arisen? I could read the bible a paint a picture, and 200 years later it probably wont be used to try something a fact. I am sure the Bible is a much more reliable source then the Di Vinci code. Even if it was 2nd best selling book. Harry Potter, was the second most selling bok for a while, but people didnt try to prove it was real with 200 year old paintings of wizards or spell books. Just sayin...

reply to post by ShadowLife


No thats not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that Da Vinci was inspired from the events of the risen Christ when he painted this scene.. Nothing Else.

reply to post by helen670


Would they all be surprised if they thought Jesus was dead and He appeared to them?

reply to post by JesusVine


now this is just stupid, do these people just wake up and think of new stupid conspiracies to get some atteniton. Now dont you think if there were holes in his hand we would have known by now.

reply to post by helen670


So can I ask you why is Jesus' Hand laid on the table and He and the disciple sitting next to him are looking strait down at his hand? What part of the biblical account of the betrayal Jesus says is about to happen would account for this? How about the fact that the painting depicts fish on the table and not a traditional passover meal that would have been served if the painting were a scene of the meal before He was crucified. How about the fact that the bible says the meal that was eaten before He was crucified was eaten in evening, but Da Vinci intended daylight be reflected in the windows. And these are just a few of the facts per the bible that show the true intent of Da Vinci and that this is a scene of the risen Christ and the fish He ate with them before he ascended to Heaven.

reply to post by JesusVine


Hi/

The painting shows a different scenario....the Apostles are trying to figure out who the betrayer is by asking each other who it is,whilst judas seems to be in a world on his own because,he knows that he is the guilty one, holding onto his silver, in a cloth bag as the painting depicts!

To be honest with you, it is not Davinci's fault on how he painted the 'last supper', but the many lies of propaganda rubbish surrounding the Gospel Truth that turned 'the last supper' into a mystery piece, instaed of a master piece!
One way to get people to not believe, is to make them believe in a little truth mixed with a few lies, then twist that little truth and the confussion arises more readily...it's a well known method for deception.
The Davinci code movie....already proven to be a great deception that has followers believing in a lie,.
Although the movie was based on fiction,and many knew this, many still follow their own ideas because the movie did exactly what it was meant to do,deceive and confuse!
The idea of deception and confusion is nothing new,but simply an old one come to life with the help of technology.
This is how the media works....books,magazines,reality shows,movies, songs etc....


ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by JesusVine


Hi/
You probably mean well,but the 'last supper' is just a painting!

Leonardo Davinci was a painter,an artist!
He painted for a living and he was good at it!
He was not a Theologian nor was he an Icon painter for religion,he did not study the Scriptures,but painted.
He was simply an artist!
If you want to see real Religious Icon Painters...
LINK
BEHIND ORTHODOX ICONS
Notes on the Theology of Icons
Another LINK

ICXC NIKA
helen

I don't see any holes. Nor do I see what the significance would be if there were holes...other than Da Vinci got a bit confused bein's the crucifixion hadn't occurred yet.

I'm just real unclear why this would be some type of important discovery.

Oh...and I still don't see holes.

Originally posted by JesusVine
reply to post by ShadowLife

 

No thats not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that Da Vinci was inspired from the events of the risen Christ when he painted this scene.. Nothing Else.

Hi,
Sorry I did not read what you wrote here...
If as you say that Lenardo Davinci was inspired by Risen Christ.........
Why would the painting be called the 'Last Supper''?
Why would Judas be sitting on the table with a money bag?
It does not make sense?

ICX NIKA
helen

A friend once told me the importance of fellowship, dont think Jesus wanted us to infight like this, the idea was to work together;

Let me help you here.

"The novelist Matteo Bandello observed Leonardo at work and wrote that some days he would paint from dawn till dusk without stopping to eat, and then not paint for three or four days at a time.[27] This, according to Vasari, was beyond the comprehension of the prior, who hounded him until Leonardo asked Ludovico to intervene. Vasari describes how Leonardo, troubled over his ability to adequately depict the faces of Christ and the traitor Judas, told the Duke that he might be obliged to use the prior as his model."

speculation
Leonardo was a clever man, he hid more than you know in his images. Also his comment wrt struggling with faces was a ruse to hide the real imagery, the frantic pace so that no one would notice his method, and the quip to the duke shows you he was at odds with his commission.

Here is your last supper with a lot of things you may not have seen before -
grab the original from here

BTW best i can do with the source - but this looks far more like Jesus if you ask me.

reply to post by pixanomaly


This information if true appears to show the possible conspiracy involved in Leonardos depiction of the last meal Jesus had with His disciples. Has it not been the intention of evil to try and prove Christ did not rise from the dead? For any bible reading individual it is obvious the the scene depicts the events of the risen Christ. Just because we are led to believe that this is the scene of the meal Jesus had with His disciples before He was crucified does not make true. And what has happened to as a people that we believe we are not capable of finding new information if we pray and ask God to guide us. Isn't just likes us though, to think we know it all. I do not know it all but I do know that Leonardo painted holes in the hands of Jesus to depict the events of the risen Christ. If you look at the scene and use the bibles account of the meal Jesus had with his disciples before He was crucified as a reference, besides what we believe is Judas and the surprise in the disciples reactions the painting does not fit the biblical account. If we use the bibles account of the events and meal Jesus had with His disciples after He had risen from the dead Da Vinci's painting begins to make sense and the holes Leonardo originally painted in the scene are easier to see. There is no argument. So whats the importance? The truth.

1)Why does one of the disciples have his finger held up as Jesus lays His hand upon the table? So that he could place his finger in the holes of Jesus' hand.

John 20: 27
27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

2)Did Jesus sit at a table with His disciples after He had risen from the dead? YES

Mark 16: 9-14
9 Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons. 10 She went and told those who had been with Him, as they mourned and wept. 11 And when they heard that He was alive and had been seen by her, they did not believe. 12 After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country. 13 And they went and told it to the rest, but they did not believe them either. 14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.

3)Did Jesus eat fish with the disciples after He had risen and were they surprised to see him? YES

Luke 24: 36-43
Jesus Appears to His Disciples

36 Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.” 37 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. 38 And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.[f] 41 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” 42 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb.[g] 43 And He took it and ate in their presence.

4)Why is Mary Magdalene at the table with the disciples? She was told to gather the disciples in Galilee to meet Jesus.

Mark 16: 6-7
6 But he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He is risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid Him. 7 But go, tell His disciples—and Peter—that He is going before you into Galilee; there you will see Him, as He said to you.”

Originally posted by JesusVine
reply to post by pixanomaly

 

This information if true appears to show the possible conspiracy involved in Leonardos depiction of the last meal Jesus had with His disciples. Has it not been the intention of evil to try and prove Christ did not rise from the dead? For any bible reading individual it is obvious the the scene depicts the events of the risen Christ. Just because we are led to believe that this is the scene of the meal Jesus had with His disciples before He was crucified does not make true. And what has happened to as a people that we believe we are not capable of finding new information if we pray and ask God to guide us. Isn't just likes us though, to think we know it all. I do not know it all but I do know that Leonardo painted holes in the hands of Jesus to depict the events of the risen Christ. If you look at the scene and use the bibles account of the meal Jesus had with his disciples before He was crucified as a reference, besides what we believe is Judas and the surprise in the disciples reactions the painting does not fit the biblical account. If we use the bibles account of the events and meal Jesus had with His disciples after He had risen from the dead Da Vinci's painting begins to make sense and the holes Leonardo originally painted in the scene are easier to see. There is no argument. So whats the importance? The truth.

If this is as you say, a painting of the resurrected Christ, then how do you explain Judas being there?

Also notice how Judas and Jesus are both reaching for bread at the same time? So this is NOT a painting of the resurrected Christ but rather an artists rendition of the Last Supper.

[edit on 13-9-2009 by TangoVooDoo]