Originally posted by JesusVine
reply to post by badmedia
as a believer do you see the significance?
Not really. I can only say that the way in which you and Christianity in general see's Jesus and the father is not the same way I see things.
I don't believe in blood sacrifices, and I don't believe his death saves anyone. People IMO have to walk the path and keep the commandments, and
understanding is required to do that.
Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for
Jesus to me represents the truth, the way and the life. He gives the understanding needed for people to keep and do the commandments. When he is
betrayed and talks about it at the last supper, he is referring in the big picture to those who have betrayed the understanding and worked towards the
manipulating people with the lie.
So, IMO to worship the death of Jesus and to find salvation in the death of Jesus is not different than saying the truth had to die in order for the
lie of this world to live. Which is to me satanic and of this world, not of the father.
This is also basically what happens in the garden. When they eat the from the tree of knowledge, they are to learn both good and evil. The only
way evil can exist at all is through the sacrifice of truth. In this way, understanding of good and evil is obtained, just as we need to
experience hot and cold to understand them. But this only means that in the end, all things serve the father and a higher purpose. As Jesus only
represents the truth and understanding, which is being sacrificed for this lesson. IE: While "evil" may in the end be a part of the learning
process, and in this way it is "justified" for existing on a higher plane - it is still not the correct path, and wisdom is the ability to make the
correct choice towards the good, or towards the example of Jesus. Thus why he likens those who do as he says as to being wise men who build their
house on a rock in Matthew 7, which ties in to Peter and the rock in John 20).
I have never in my life meet anyone named Jesus, but I do know the father. The father gave me these understandings, and when I read Jesus I
recognize the father within him. I recognize he is giving the understanding that I know comes from the father. And in this manner, I am a
believer of Jesus, but I am not a believer of Christianity, which I think is the anti-christ religion.
Not that I have anything against if he lived or not or still exists in the least. The father just showed me that it was the father the entire time
in the first place, and that "Jesus" - and others like him are just tools(not in a bad way at all, not in terms of = that guy is such a tool etc)
who were used for a purpose.
It's not about accepting anything, it's all about understanding what is being expressed. Anyone can accept 1+1=2 is true because a man or book
told them so. But only the man who understands math really knows what it means and how to use/apply it to their life. Thus why knowledge of the
holy is understanding, and why acceptance of things is considered bad in the OT.
So to be quite honest, if a painting has holes in him or not has no change of being significant to me. The father is within, and the point is to
find the father. The father rewards those who find him with wisdom and understanding, and it is that one must seek. Holes or not is just a ploy
towards acceptance and belief.
I mentioned proverbs 9 before, but check out proverbs 8. It says these things exactly. The entire chapter is good, but I'm just going to
highlight a few places to save space.
8All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
9They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
10Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.
11For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
17I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
18Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
19My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
20I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
21That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.
So here's a real world example of the difference between me and a Christian.
John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Popular verse for Christians. But when a christian reads that, they see only by "Jesus" can they come by that. In that sense, "Jesus" is just
an idol. But when I read that sentence, I see him defining that he is the way, the truth and life for a reason, and he is saying that by those
things can one come to the father. Not by the idol of Jesus, but by someone seeking out the truth, the way and the life.
To continue further:
13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Does this mean if I ask Jesus to kill my brother it will be done? No. Why not? Because it is not in line with the truth, the way and the life.
It is those things which you ask for in that manner - that is what will be done.
And this is important because people think only by "Jesus" can one come to the father, but they do not realize it is actually be seeking those
things. But Jesus even says this himself.
Same chapter still:
24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your
remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
If it is by "Jesus" that one comes to the father, then how is it possible for them to hear the father? Again, in his name - in the name of the
truth, the way and so forth. So it is available and always has been to those who seek understanding, who seek the truth and so forth. Regardless
of race, sex, nation and so forth.
So I don't see things in the same light as Christians. I am not at all a believer in Christianity.