Homeless man could get 5 years for wearing handcuff keys

reply to post by whitewave

How is this man or society served or made safer by this man going to prison?

Can we put him to sleep?

Honest question, I don't believe in life imprisonment, and I don't want criminals on the street harrassing the young women. I don't want to pay for him to be in a mental institution or a prison for extended years. I say he straightens up and flies right, or we put him to sleep!

I have a feeling you won't agree though?

reply to post by whitewave


Neither the man or society is well served by sending him to prison as you point out.

Worse yet being only 22 and his frontal lobes still developing he will reach full maturity behind bars with a terrible set of roll models and perspective on life and be fully locked into them.

He might struggle and overcome them but it will always be a struggle.

The vagrancy laws as you point out really do illustrate how we are all free ranged economic slaves, if you don't have money, if you aren't doing something to have money, you don't deserve to breath the otherwise free air and roam on the earth even in public or unowned places.

Can we really blame the small percentage that opt to drop out of this system or just find for what ever reason that they can't cope with it either through mental defect or conscious decision?

The most enslaved person is the one who imagines they are free!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by whitewave

 

How is this man or society served or made safer by this man going to prison?

Can we put him to sleep?

Honest question, I don't believe in life imprisonment, and I don't want criminals on the street harrassing the young women. I don't want to pay for him to be in a mental institution or a prison for extended years. I say he straightens up and flies right, or we put him to sleep!

I have a feeling you won't agree though?

The reality is whose standard of right are we going to decide is right.

A standard that says people should be humanely murdered for simply having the temmerity and desire to converse with and give into primal impulses to mate and propogate with those they chose to converse with.

Or that a man should have to own a luxury home, have a enslaving job, and a expensive sports car simply to talk to a woman?

Chances are if the guy were Brad Pitt he would have had a dozen dates instead of a dozen complaints with an identical approach and state of mind.

I hope you understand you are advocating cold blooded murder based on an entirely dual and enslaving standard of what is right.

Cheer up friend, I don't advocate putting you to sleep for it, but it certainly is very deadly thinking and far more so than a drunken young man trying to make time with the ladies.



[edit on 10/9/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by getreadyalready


You might be surprised by what I'd agree with.

Seriously, though, the entire concept of one person or a group of persons having any say whatsoever over what someone can do or be is highly offensive to me.

It's not my place or business to decide someone else's fate. It's not anyone else's either. If someone is being a true menace (robbery, murder, etc.) then let the neighbors or the people the criminal are affecting deal with it.

Personally, I like the old Levitical law regarding criminals. If you've done something worthy of death-you die. If you do something worthy of death but it was accidental and not done with malice then you go to a "city of refuge" where you stay for the rest of your life and you have an entire city in which to take care of yourself. You are marked so that if you ever leave the city, the "avenger of blood" (next of kin, usually) can avenge themselves on you with impunity.

In that city of refuge you are free to live your life however you see fit. Not a bad system overall. It's basically segregation without robbing people of their right to live a normal life.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I agree, I don't think this guy deserved death for his crimes, but what if it is determined he is completely mentally ill, has no family or friends, and will never be able to live a productive life on the street?

Hypothetically, many homeless people are at best a burden on society, and at worst a dangerous liability!

I think everybody deserves opportunity, but once it is used up, and you have proven yourself a burden or a dangerous criminal (I keep saying Dangerous, because I really don't believe in all the 'victimless' crimes like drugs or tax evasion), then what do we do with them?

I realize I am advocating cold-blooded murder, and I don't like it, but if the alternative is a miserable 70 years in a max security prison, or a drug-stupor in a mental hospital, then which way is better? They are terrible choices, but one of them affects all of us in a negative way, and costs vasts amount of money, the other way is cheap and quick and only affects the one individual!

Originally posted by getreadyalready

I don't think this guy deserved death for his crimes, but what if it is determined he is completely mentally ill, has no family or friends, and will never be able to live a productive life on the street?

You do know that conspiracy theorists and people who disagree with the government have been deemed "completely mentally ill", don't you? Heaven forbid we also become unemployed and don't have twenty dollars in our pocket at all times!

reply to post by getreadyalready


I just don't morally believe in that type of government. I don't see a person like this as a threat to other individuals.

What makes most people uncomfortable about the homeless is the there but for the grace of fortune go I.

Just like death itself, most people aren't comfortable with reminders of just how tenuous and uncertain life can be for any or all of us.

Ultimately you truly are leaning towards conformity to an homogenous mass with a strong central almost totaltarian authority which defeats the whole purpose of living in a fluid universe.

Getting the most out of life in an infinite universe and that type of rigid enslaving structure don't go hand in hand.

It defeats true learning, it defeats true logic, it becomes all simply about making others feel safe through sameness and compliance, and assumes that the central unifying authority and the collective wisdom of the oligarchs that rule it is wise.

Looking around at the planet, our own society, the history of the human race, I would say it wouldn't be possible to get further from the truth.

Preemptive wars instead of real efforts to make peace. Jealousies and resentments born of the victims triangle. I am ok, you are ok, he's not ok thinking designed to comfort each and one another into false notions of correctness that just perpetuate the same problems ultimately people want to be protected from.

People should be free under all circumstances until they take a life.

Otherwise it's about debt and creditors, its a false notion you can pay a debt to society, it creates the dibiliating collective thinking where people are ultimately afraid to think out side of the box for fear of rejection. It stifles innovation and wisdom and understanding and breeds intollerance and fear.

You can pay a debt back to people who have had something of real tangible value taken from them, but you have to be free to work in order to do that.

No one lost anything tangible in this case, and it's a stretch of the imagination simply for ego and arguments sake to try to misconstrue some one has.

This is simply about fear and prejudice, jealousy and loathing and unhappiness in ones own conformity and the missery loves company notion that all should conform to it as well.

Harnessing a human's energy is one thing, imprisoning it is stupid, failing to innovate to find a way for a human's energy to be productive in some way is stupider still, it is defeatist thinking and entrenched by a Master slave society where ultimately the slaves are taught to keep others in line by rejecting and condemning those who will not submit to the same form of slavery as they have.

People like speech, like thought should be free, and this man hasn't done anything in my oppinion to negate his.

I don't favor an authoritarian system because power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts.

[edit on 10/9/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I agreed with you on this case, and we don't have any information that this guy is mentally ill, or any danger to anybody, so I completely agree that the punishment does not fit the crime! Herb, sexual innuendos and a handcuff key, do not a criminal make!!

I was attempting to derail I guess! Sorry!

I was responding to the other comment about jail not benefiting this guy or the society, and I was thinking, "When does jail ever benefit an individual or a society?" I don't think it ever does!! It doesn't rehabilitate, and it is very expensive to society. The US has the largest prison population in the world, and it is for silly stuff like drugs, or tax evasion, or child support, or being 19 and dating a 16 year old! I was trying to make the point that the vast majority of offenders do not need jail, and the violent ones don't need it either!!

Either get people the help they need, leave them alone, or put them to sleep!

It is an overarching simplistic attitude that I would like to see debated somewhere! If there is no victim there is no crime. If there is a victim, get to the bottom of it and give a swift and appropriate punishment. If that is not sufficient, then we need to remove the offender from our society permanently!

Double Post, sticky fingers!

[edit on 10-9-2009 by getreadyalready]

reply to post by getreadyalready


I gave you a star for all of your post except I can't agree with the 'our' society concept.

I am an individual whose thoughts and attitudes work for me. I am not a we as no one but me can climb inside my head and truly know and feel my joys and sorrows, hopes and fears, pleasures and pain.

I am a solitary unit by nature and design, while many people seek safety in a herd, or companionship in a herd, validation and absolution from a herd, it is still all based and as limited as the herd and the herd's leaders, and their perspectives and collective wisdom, compasion and intelligence.

I reject herd concepts. Adolf Hitler's herd thought they were politicaly correct, so did Joseph Stalins Herd. Just because Roosevelt's herd imposed dominance through a might makes right Darwinian struggle employing many of the same actions and methods denounced as wrong in the other herd, doesn't make the herd right, it just makes the herd dominant.

I don't wish to be submissive or submit, nor do I wish persay to dominate others I wish to do no harm.

Yet the concept of we must harm others before they harm us if the herd imagines for any reason true or false harm is imminent or possible just makes the herd/mob mentallity what it is, dangerous, rigid and based simply on might, not right.

I don't want to pay for the herd, I don't want to be taxed by the herd, I certainly don't want to be dominated or controlled or enslaved by the herd, I can respect the herds right to be a herd as long as the herd does no harm to me.

If society was truly social there would be no homeless problem, society is far from civilized but is simply about ceremonial barbarity and perscribed ways to display imperfections for it's imagined collective good which usually and almost always is at the expense of something bad to someone else.

New World Order justice is blind if it believes in the notion of it's own infalibility and correctness and it really isn't about justice but might makes right, because a dead man executed in haste can not be ressurected, just lamented.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Theoretically I agree with you, but I am surprised that is your stance? You seem to be very spiritual, and most people of that persuasion feel 'connected' on a spiritual level to all living things and the earth itself!

I know I have some harsh opinions, and very little patience sometimes, but even I feel the connection to the collection of "humanity" and the earth and wind and seas!

Have you ever stood alone on a seashore at dusk or dawn? It is very warming, and I don't feel alone at all! Even looking out at a stormy sea with lightning and wind is comforting in some way, so I don't believe we can exist as individuals!

Plus it is just logistically impossible, the society has to maintain some order if we are going to live in close proximity with one another.

for the interesting discussion, and in a way, we are both now connected to this homeless guy that never heard of us!!

reply to post by getreadyalready


It's true that we are all connected and all a part of the same universe connected by a thread that touches and runs through us all and all things.

Somethings like the ocean and the sunrise and sunset and full moon are timeless in their temporal aspects while we as mere humans live a fleeting existence.

The universe born out of chaos needs a certain amount of chaos to keep from collapsing back on to itself.

Order it too much you negate the very purpose for it being, and by extension you being.

Like a rubber band being stretched we are all travelling away or towards a oneness but it's only through our divisions and differences we can quantify what the one is.

It's a process, and what ever this young man discovers is something we all will share in and be a part of because of the way we are all connected eventually.

Still it's best not to get up in the wee dawn hours of Christmas morning and peek inside the presents.

Everything happens in due course and due time on it's own schedule.

We are all connected together, and that's why it's important to try to always display empathy and compassion for others.

The road they ultimately walk keeps us from having to travel that road too.

We all benefit in the end for not short circuiting the process and we all should ask ourselves why we don't or aren't wishing this young man luck and well.

Another star. The need to dominate is a hard one to shun and foresake I know but ultimately Mastery comes through desiring nothing to the point that it becomes your binding and governing force in life.

We all have our crosses to bear in life, some do so with great ease, some find the burden immense.

Ultimately we should be looking for ways to help one another and not punish one another.

Patience is a virtue, a hard one to display when time is the only true asset.

if you wanted to go to the trouble or new you would need it you could swallow the key before you do something stupid or just be prepared by swallowing it again like every two days

Originally posted by malcolm420
if you wanted to go to the trouble or new you would need it you could swallow the key before you do something stupid or just be prepared by swallowing it again like every two days

Or you could have the key surgically impanted just under the skin where it wouldn't be too hard to cut out even by cutting it out from within by twisting and manipulating the key underneath your skin!

that is a good idea to but ouch! lol

Originally posted by malcolm420
that is a good idea to but ouch! lol

Ouch is the assassin that has his legs severed below the knees so he can use different height prostetics to fool authorities as to whether they are looking for man of tall, short or medium height.

A key...that's a piece of cake!

Originally posted by getreadyalready reply to post by whitewave

 

How is this man or society served or made safer by this man going to prison? Can we put him to sleep? Honest question, I don't believe in life imprisonment, and I don't want criminals on the street harrassing the young women. I don't want to pay for him to be in a mental institution or a prison for extended years. I say he straightens up and flies right, or we put him to sleep! I have a feeling you won't agree though?

Well, if we're getting out & dusting off our "final solutions", I'll throw mine into the mix.
The entire world populace should be individually forced to enter a booth. Therewithin they should be confronted by a question on a screen:

"It is right that the state may use rods to beat its people into submission. Should that force prove insufficient, execution, symbolised by the axe, should be employed.
Agree? / Disagree?

Anyone who clicks "Agree" should be painlessly killed on the spot.
WTF? Check it: Fasces.
I'd rather see an entire society of mentally ill vagrants (not that I believe for 1sec that opting out of our society demonstrates mental illness, but just to be completely clear) than suffer a fascist to live. Er... actually I'm lying. I wouldn't even execute fascists. What I would do is champion their right to free speech so that their repetition of old, failed, fear based, hate filled, stupidity can be fully appreciated for what it is &, by annoying reasonable people, be debunked by counter-argument.
Oh hang on, looks like our ancestors already thought of this... its just that some of us have since become so afraid of debate that we must have laws against stupid speech, for fear we cannot defeat its arguments.
F# fascism! F# censorship! F# me! F# you! In fact, a bit more f#ing & a bit less whinging would see us all better off... so f# religion too!
Edit: f#ing!

[edit on 11/9/09 by Bunken Drum]