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Abortion will be covered in Obama's plan

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posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


I have to disagree with you on the point of the public option.

I also want (hope) that this does not pass at all.

Tort reform and opening up state lines to insurance companies will decrease costs, making it more affordable for all.

Abortion as with end of life issues are a moral sticking point with me, however.

Abortion transcends legal issues in that it deals with religious/moral implications.

Having Washington legislate those is just wrong. Now you could say the same thing about war/murder but we aren't aborting fetuses to protect our way of life.

We are doing it because it is easy and convenient.



[edit on 9-9-2009 by mikerussellus]




posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by northof8
Abortion will be covered in Obama's plan an its not your standard abortion. They will be aborting all of our grandparents and anyone else that has a terminal illness.



I havent read the health care bill, but I can assure you that in countries with socialized healthcare they do not let someone like this die.
Quite the contrary, because the doctors have NO incentive to ration health care (it is state-funded after all, why should I ration something that I am not paying for?)
All this death panel talk is a bunch of BS.

As for abortions, I support it but only to second month of pregnancy, when the consciousness starts to develop. After that it is a murder I think..



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by Maslo
I havent read the health care bill, but I can assure you that in countries with socialized healthcare they do not let someone like this die.


And I can assure you that we won't either.
The idea that the government will be "pulling the plug on grandma" is a fantasy planted in the minds of the non-thinking to frighten people of the bill. It's utter nonsense and a downright lie.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Why is this so hard for you to understand? When there are limited resources for an unlimited need, there will be rationing.

Someone else will be deciding whether you live or die.

Obama's new czar, Holdren even speaks about it.

zombietime.com...



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by mappam
It doesn't really matter if you are Pro or not - gals will ALWAYS find a way to abort.

I am (really) older and remember the back-room dirty motels that were used. Doctors that were less than qualified. Botched proceedures that killed young females. Girls that tried to self-abort with a coathanger.

So do I believe that abortion should be covered - yes
Do I believe Abortion is a PERSONAL choice - yes
Do I believe it should be SAFE - yes.
Do I believe that females will continue to seek out ways to abort - yes.

If you don't believe in abortion - fine - don't get pregnant in the first place. Or have the baby and either keep it or give it up for adoption.

Don't force your beliefs on others. It is a medical proceedure and should be carried under steril conditions in a safe environment - not a back room somewhere.



Just quoting so it gets read - am I pushing the envelope? Probably. Will I be flamed for my opinions - probably.

But as I stated - Abortions will happen.

Should they be safe - or do you just want females to put their life on the line for a mistake they made (OR a rape or incest!)



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by mikerussellus

Originally posted by redhead57
I just fail to see why the "pro life" people really care what someone else does with their body or baby. I agree that if they were so concerned with the lives of the unborn they would do a bit more to feed, clothe and house the babies of poor mothers. The same ones that scream about how wrong abortions are and want every teen that gets pregnant or ever poor woman that gets pregnant to keep their babies, are the same ones that scream to have things like WIC and food stamps done away with. Like the life of an unborn is worth more than the life of a child.


Abortion is part of gyn care...period. If the Pro Life people stay out of my womb, I will gladly stay out of their churches.


So your ok with murder, just as long as it's not you getting killed?


Really...that is what you got out of my post????

I am not a supporter of murder, not for any reason including revenge killings such as Capitol Punishment, but abortion is not murder! I am against child abuse, child poverty and women being viewed as nothing more than baby incubators! Abortion is a medical procedure that is covered by most insurances today and is a health care issue! Considering the fact that you copied and posted my comment here on a my thread about doctors wanting to withhold care from LIVING and BREATHING patients should show that in fact I do value life.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by mikerussellus
 


News alert....you already are funding abortion! Medicade and Medicare pay for them already so your precious tax dollars are already paying for it! Just another talking point really.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by mappam
 


Years ago, when I was active with the GOP (before I became disgusted with them) we had a roundtable discussion with some state and local pols.

I stated that we would never be able to legislate abortion because it is a moral issue. I stated that if we were to put abortion clinics out of business, we had to start in the home. To teach kids that it is a life, to teach them morality. This was years ago, but it has only gotten worse.

There is a moral "void" in todays family. This is perpetuated in schools and echo'd by our politicians.

Thus, the clinics stay in business. This can be illustrated by the current administration allowing tax payer funds to support abortion in this travesty of a healthcare bill.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by redhead57
 


You value life.

You are against murder.

But abortion is ok?

What am I missing here?



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by redhead57
reply to post by mikerussellus
 


News alert....you already are funding abortion! Medicade and Medicare pay for them already so your precious tax dollars are already paying for it! Just another talking point really.


Where did you find that? Would like to see how it is paying for it.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by mikerussellus
Obama's new czar, Holdren even speaks about it.


Yes, he SPEAKS about it. We speak about it here. He doesn't, however recommend or advocate it. You've been listening to Glenn Beck and his attack the czars show... Holdren explores all possible ways of population control, but recommends access to birth control, instead.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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Uh, I have provided transportation to several young ladies right to the clinic and seen them give their medicade cards, that is how! Now that may be just in NY, but given that medicade is a federal program I am fairly sure it is that way across the board! I also know of women that are on disability who have medicare and have had terminations with that insurance!

A fetus is not a living person. I am vehemently opposed to any abortion that is past 12 weeks, buy that point in gestation IMO the decision should have been made. Only in the case of a mother's life being lost would I agree that should be done.

Just a question for you, what is your take on the Death Penalty??



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by mikerussellus
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Why is this so hard for you to understand? When there are limited resources for an unlimited need, there will be rationing.

Someone else will be deciding whether you live or die.

Obama's new czar, Holdren even speaks about it.

zombietime.com...


One of the things that academe is called upon is to formulate responses to sets of circumstances, way in advance of either need or delivery. Such discussions often include the most dire of ethical questions..."what do we do if?..."

It takes reasoned men and women to have these discussions because some of them may require decades of debate to achieve a policy level. May I remind folks of "Operation Northwoods?"

So to take discussions of this nature out of context and apply them as personal quotations is beyond disingenuous, it is anti-intellectual and downright stoopid.

If a couple more of this kind of argument had been debated in advance of Hurricane Katrina, maybe the government response would not have been such a sustained and intense cluster-#.

Think, people...don't just chug that koolaid and do the bobblehead!



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


When we speak about it, I seriously doubt the president is listening.

When Holdren speaks about it? Hmmff!

• Women could be forced to abort their pregnancies, whether they wanted to or not;
• The population at large could be sterilized by infertility drugs intentionally put into the nation's drinking water or in food;
• Single mothers and teen mothers should have their babies seized from them against their will and given away to other couples to raise;
• People who "contribute to social deterioration" (i.e. undesirables) "can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility" -- in other words, be compelled to have abortions or be sterilized.
• A transnational "Planetary Regime" should assume control of the global economy and also dictate the most intimate details of Americans' lives -- using an armed international police force.

zombietime.com...



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by redhead57
 


All for the death penalty. These are adults that chose to remove themselves from the human race by their actions, their choice.

What did a fetus do? Other than want to be a human being. If 12 weeks is ok to kill a potential human life then why isn't 13 weeks? Would it be ok to kill a two year old? It's not like they have contributed?

You aren't arguing about life. You're arguing about TIME.

Would 12 1/2 weeks be too late? How about 11 9/10 weeks? Still ok to kill?



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by mikerussellus
• Women could be forced to abort their pregnancies, whether they wanted to or not;


EXACTLY MY POINT! Do you want the government making that choice??? Or do YOU want that choice? You can't have it both ways. Either you want the choice or you want the government to have it... Which is it?

This is exactly what I was saying in this post

[edit on 9-9-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Forgive my stoopid simplification, but I feel that it serves to illustrate the point of rationing.

I would agree that we are already under the umbrella of raationed care now. But removing any and all of our own personal decisions for healthcare is wrong and "stoopid".



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by Maslo

Originally posted by northof8
Abortion will be covered in Obama's plan an its not your standard abortion. They will be aborting all of our grandparents and anyone else that has a terminal illness.



I havent read the health care bill, but I can assure you that in countries with socialized healthcare they do not let someone like this die.
Quite the contrary, because the doctors have NO incentive to ration health care (it is state-funded after all, why should I ration something that I am not paying for?)
All this death panel talk is a bunch of BS.

As for abortions, I support it but only to second month of pregnancy, when the consciousness starts to develop. After that it is a murder I think..


Seems to be a bunch of disinfo agents here or just plain ignorant SOB's. This one admits he hasn't read the bill but still decides to debate the issue... Have you read the UK headlines lately?

Forced to watch her baby die

This is wht you are going to get from the Nazi in Chief. You "people" that blindly support this Nazi you call your president, I sure hope you are the first to go to the death camps.

Here is another.. Nazis are killing my Dad

[edit on 9-9-2009 by northof8]



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


I choose. . . . .neither. It is not a binary decision.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by mikerussellus
 



Passed by Congress in 1976, the Hyde Amendment excludes abortion from the comprehensive health care services provided to low-income people by the federal government through Medicaid. Congress has made some exceptions to the funding ban, which have varied over the years. At present, the federal Medicaid program mandates abortion funding in cases of rape or incest, as well as when a pregnant woman's life is endangered by a physical disorder, illness, or injury.

Most states have followed the federal government's lead in restricting public funding for abortion. Currently only seventeen states fund abortions for low-income women on the same or similar terms as other pregnancy-related and general health services. (See map.) Four of these states provide funding voluntarily (HI, MD, NY,1 and WA); in thirteen, courts interpreting their state constitutions have declared broad and independent protection for reproductive choice and have ordered nondiscriminatory public funding of abortion (AK, AZ, CA, CT, IL, MA, MN, MT, NJ, NM, OR, VT, and WV).2 Thirty-two of the remaining states pay for abortions for low-income women in cases of life-endangering circumstances, rape, or incest, as mandated by federal Medicaid law.3 (A handful of these states pay as well in cases of fetal impairment or when the pregnancy threatens "severe" health problems, but none provides reimbursement for all medically necessary abortions for low-income women.) Finally, one state (SD) fails even to comply with the Hyde Amendment, instead providing coverage only for lifesaving abortions.


She is right, medicare and mediaid does pay for abortion.

www.aclu.org...

More updated information,

bulletin.aarp.org...

[edit on 9-9-2009 by marg6043]



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