Why did i get a U2U to Digg the Alex Jones hoax story?

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
ATS is a business. The goal is to get more users. Attaching your name to things on other sites that will get viewed is marketing, pure and simple.

this is my take also.
should be obvious, even.
even for a complete ignorant like me (i dont even know what U2U means, and i hardly have ever visited this site before registering today)


EDIT : (several hours later) : After reading the rest of the thread I have noticed Beefcake using illogical arguments :

According to him the dating of the article would be proof that it was never intended to be taken at face value.

This argument would have been valid if the article claimed the interview had happened on the day of its morning publication. But the article contains, as far as i have read, no such statement.


Beefcake : "Alex had the story up for less than 2 hrs in its original form then amended it yet you act like it was a great hoax trying to trick everyone like the Caret drones.
This would never have tricked anyone so it was never intended to. Do you actually think AJ is stupid enough to try and trick people with something that could easily be verified by msm with a phone call.
Alex doesn't do his site his staff does and i think they made a mistake its the only logical conclusion. "

Here Beefcake fails to mention that AJ has hyped his interview as a huge announcement since at least the day before its publication. The timeline of the stunt is thus more than 90 minutes (90 minutes being the time it took AJ's site's staff to add a disclaimer line at the foot of the article, which line was added after ATS outed the stunt).


Then Beefcake goes on to blame AJ's staff : "It was a mistake by his staff imo. ATS has postured that this was a great Hoax and that Alex Jones is now a fraud and disingenuous. ATS is very much to blame."

But this is inconsistent with AJ's own hyping of his fake-interview the day before its publication.


Beefcake : "If AJ's staff made a mistake on this exciting day that had been hyped and everyone was all hustled and stressed form AJ yelling at them(because we know AJ would do that). Then how is it fair to persecute him and call all his past in to question."

Fortunately we have Jones himself touting his upcoming story as the biggest he has ever covered yet to prove his guilt in the stunt, the hoax, the lie, or however you want to paint it.


Beefcake: "IMO a Hoax is purely based on intentions and there was no intention by AJ to trick anyone the site was changed to quickly and his whole show was catered to it being a fake interview."

Well the "hoax" label may be excessive, as indeed for it to qualify as a hoax Jones would have had to stand by his publication for more than 90 minutes.
"Stunt" seems quite correct though, a "PR-stunt".


I'll stop the quoting and rebuking game here and I'll add my two cents : indeed a PR-stunt by a guy like Jones who has claimed to be a serious journalist since his started his career is a discrediting move not only to himself but also to the movement in general, as unfortunately Jones is one of this movement's figureheads.

It sends a signal to the rest of the world : "conspiracy theorists are charlatans who make up stories to get attention and revenue". This is the first time I've see a guy who heretofore pretended to be a serious conspiracy researcher and journalist admittedly and unabashedly pulling up a stunt, a scam, a lie to get attention.

We all know this movement needs credibility, and this AJ move is like a dagger blow in the back of the community. If anyone still doubted the guy doesn't work for what and who he claims he does, this is the time to get a clue. Some in this thread have, happily, made the statement that they are disappointed and can't defend Jones this time.

[edit on 9-9-2009 by quintal]

reply to post by Beefcake


I don't speak for anyone other than myself but this is the way I saw it.

Alex Jones is huge in conspiracy theory circles. In a lot of ways to a lot of people, he is 'the face' of conspiracy theories.

To have someone so recognizable do what he did places a whammy on all of us in terms of credibility to conspiracy theories. In my opinion, he should be called out on that.

It's like having a leader of a cause you belong to do something stupid and mar their reputation. If you want the whole cause to have a shadow over its head, you will sweep the controversy under the rug. However, when you truly care about the cause, you won't tolerate someone pulling shenanigans.

Does that make any sense? Instead of shielding 'charlatans' (for lack of a less dramatic term), you should call them out lest their error hangs over everyone's head. I do believe Jones made a laughingstock out of the conspiracy community yesterday. You may disagree but in his drive to hype up his ratings, he did a stupid thing and there is nothing wrong with people outing him.

While I'm pleased that we've seen and acknowledgement that omitting the disclaimer was wrong, and that it caused undo confusion, I'm still concerned that there might be some deception.

The "traffic bombardment" excuse makes no sense, here's why.

Originally posted by jkrog08
Probably because people like that crock Alex Jones who come up with so blatant hoaxes make all of us on here look like complete idiots that have no actual grip on what is real and what is fantasy. It needed to be took care of by the largest Alt site in the world, ATS, the word that it was a hoax needed to get out ASAP. We are already looked at as a joke by many, non-important by most, and serious by few. We need to show that we do not respect nor support such outrageous hoaxes. My two cents anyways...

Then why did they take the HOAX tags off?

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by William One Sac
How can you claim they outed a hoax, when it was a hoax to begin with.

Because it was on ATS that I first saw the screen shot of the original interview. It seems pretty simple that ATS should take credit for that.

Originally posted by AshleyD I do believe Jones made a laughingstock out of the conspiracy community yesterday. You may disagree but in his drive to hype up his ratings, he did a stupid thing and there is nothing wrong with people outing him.

My problem with this is I'm anything but sure that jones was just silly in this stunt-pulling. He may very well have done that on purpose. He is the main figurehead of the movement and he (or his handlers) may have deliberately sent a torpedo to the community through this nearly-hoax.

I'm picturing a cartoon-drawing of Jones as a torpedo now: Suits him well. His face just bothers me when I look at it. He doesnt look intelligent. He looks driven yes, but it's so obvious that he's just a teenager craving recognition and riding the horse of "let's fight the new world order" to give himself a credibility to himself, as a man.

I'm a William Cooper fan. Comparing Jones to Cooper is just sad for the times we live in. We had Cooper, we're getting Jones plastered all over the world. I believe the purpose of the large exposure of the Jones-torpedo is to cover up the Coopers of the world. Jones is there taking up the space.
And now Jones has been detonated, at least a little.

What saddens me also is that genuine researchers, like that guy who was the first to out the bilderberger meetings and has been doing so for decades, decide to do a "mainstream-conspiracy" interview it is with... Jones !

It's like you gotta pass through Jones if you want large coverage. It's like Jones isn't credible but he has the power to broadcast you far and wide and consequently some very credible guys go to his show... which in turn gives credibility to Jones. This is bothering.

[edit on 9-9-2009 by quintal]

reply to post by Beefcake


I suppose it is because this is a website that many see as a nut job fringe associated with Alex Jones and the ATS admins wanted to distance us from him. It is understandable. It is not so much about the importance of the story as the public relations angle, just as it is with many companies

Originally posted by Gaspode
But once in a blue moon they ask you a favour, and you gather the torches and pitchforks? Simply astounding!

That's a bit of a hyperbole I think, nobody is lighting torches or brandishing farm equipment, but I'm not going to be hammering the plough shares of truth into swords for ATS either.
Chris Bollyn is now being called a nazi, Prof. Jones just got railroaded on one of those quasi-debunking shows, Sibel Edmonds is being completely ignored, John O'Neil is dead, Charlie Sheen beat his old lady and threw babies into pits with hungry dogs, and now Alex Jones is being labeled a hoaxer... sorry, but I'm just not going to willingly contribute to the demonization of the truth movement, and I don't think it's right that ATS is either. It's odd that we are being asked to.

Originally posted by William One Sac
Personally I think it is wonderful that ATS outed this hoax.

Power to the ATS people!!

Ditto William Ditto.

Placing the disclaimer at the bottom is dishonest on its face and something I'd expect of the NYT.

I got that U2U just now and when I clicked the ATS link; instead of a normal ATS thread I got Prison Planet (with an ATS URL in my address bar) with the "interview" and NO disclaimer that I saw.

Geesh! I never click AJ's URL's - but - I THOUGHT I was going to get an ATS thread by clicking that URL.

Confused and disgusted at my being duped by ATS staff.

YOU might dig AJ; I don't. He's in fantasy-land; fighting Lizard People and he doesn't even have his Dungeon's and Dragons Player's Handbook on the table yet!

Grrrr-r-r-r-r @ Sceptic Overlord.

I'm going to see this as water under the bridge. I don't like ATS trying to use thier members for an agenda.

Despite the reasons that were give they seem like BS to me because the stories have changed so many time.

1) It was to "spread the truth" and that Alex had Hoaxed the truth movement and even by Skeptic Overlord own admission the language of the u2u was maybe not the best.

2)then it was to have atsers spread the word to correct other publications taht were saying it was real.

3)Now it is

Alex Jones is huge in conspiracy theory circles. In a lot of ways to a lot of people, he is 'the face' of conspiracy theories. To have someone so recognizable do what he did places a whammy on all of us in terms of credibility to conspiracy theories. In my opinion, he should be called out on that.

These inconsistencies are not good and make me think that maybe none of them are true. I have suspicions they are just Spin.

Some admins still think AJ is lying and Paul Watson and Kurt Nimmo and you will just say they are doing the bidding of Alex i don't think they are.

Charlie said he put the disclaimer at the bottom because if it was at the top no one would read it. Again i believe him and maybe you don't.

I believe the u2u had malicious intent and many other don't i can't prove it but based on the reasons for the u2u changing so much i can suspect it.

I'm ready to move on and i know members and some admin will continue to say they don't believe him but that doesn't indite him. That wouldn't be fare. This letter was never intended to be a portrayed as real there was no hoaxing. imo

Edit: For what i is worth the Beefcake will not try and eat any of you


[edit on 9-9-2009 by Beefcake]

reply to post by Beefcake

3)Now it is...

Nooooo... Don't take my musing as an official explanation. Which is why I said 'I don't speak for anyone other than myself...'

I was just giving my opinion on why it's important to call out those who attempt to mislead.

Thanks for promising not to eat me, though! I'm bony and have too many toxins.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by Beefcake

 

3)Now it is...

Nooooo... Don't take my musing as an official explanation. Which is why I said 'I don't speak for anyone other than myself...'

I was just giving my opinion on why it's important to call out those who attempt to mislead.

Thanks for promising not to eat me, though! I'm bony and have too many toxins.

I don't necessarily believe malicious intent I'm just saying i COULD and so can certain admins and members believe malicious intent from Alex Jones.

We are all entitled to our beliefs and opinions as long as we are clear that is what they are and they aren't portrayed as facts.

I don't agree with all of AJs tactics but these threads have not only attracted the people who don't like AJ but also many many people who don't even think 9/11 was an inside job. I have been a lone voice in the wilderness at times but i have found many that agree with me and others that just think this has all got way out of hand.

That being said i eat the bones too

I am with Beefcake on this one.

ATS admin screwed the pooch.

1.) Asking for diggs is akin to asking for stars or flags.

2.) We were asked to mobilize for a cause, which is against the rules.

I read in another thread that since this Charlie Sheen/Obam thing broke, that ATS has had the highest amount of visits since last year?

I think it's good that the U2U was sent out to let people know who didn't already that the interview was ficticious. With this being so popular and all.

My 2 cents.

Its just a shame that so much attention is being given to the wrong issue.
AJ screwing up his big announcement is something, but compared to the issues of 911, it is nothing.

The 911 issues are real and deserving of scrutiny.

Too bad Jones messed up cuz now everyone here has put more attention on him than on the issue that cries out for it.

Why I Love ATS

NOTE: The following is just my personal opinion. As such, it may be safely ignored and you may safely return to your regularly scheduled programming if you prefer.

Ah, so much skepticism, so much suspicion, so much independent thought! Excuse me, I think I have something in my eye.

I have mixed feelings about all this.

On the one hand, I totally understand why Bill considered this issue important enough to call out. People can say what they want, but he has always been a straight shooter, both in public and behind the curtain. Indeed, when I first became a mod, one of the things that surprised me most was that fact that Bill and the Amigos say exactly the same things behind closed doors as they do in public. Coincidence? I think not.

On the other hand, I am totally on board with members who question the motives behind all this. I mean hey, why should the owners of ATS pick up on this particular story when there's so many other important stories to consider out there? It's a fair question, and one that I don't think should be dismissed out of hand.

I think Bill has explained his rationale clearly enough, and I won't endeavor to repeat his words here, nor am I in any position to speak for anyone but myself.

But I would like to point out for anyone who may wonder why their pet conspiracy doesn't get "official sanction" from the ATS ownership that cases like these offer a pretty good example. It doesn't really matter what the cause may be, or how open and shut the case may be, or how noble the cause may seem.

The gritty truth is that there are many members of our community who will take exception if ATS is perceived as taking a stance on any issue, no matter what it may be.

Is that a constraint upon the ownership? Yes.

Is it wrong that the ownership is so constrained? In my opinion, no.

In fact, I consider that constraint to be one of the most important "checks and balances" on our site. As much as I value and respect Bill's opinions (he is one of my most influential role models), his opinions are still just those: opinions.

At the heart of the ATS community is a respect for our rights as members to make up our own minds. Whenever any member of the staff, for any reason, however just and noble it may seem, calls attention to something like this, it should come as no surprise that some members will be suspicious of the motives behind such a move.

And rightly so!

Again, this is just my opinion, but it really warms my heart when I see members question authority like this. It reminds me why I love ATS as much as I do.

So was it wrong for the ATS administration to call attention to this particular issue? No, I don't think so.

Then is it wrong for ATSers to question the motives of the ATS administration in calling attention to to this particular issue? Definitely not!

If there's one thing ATS has taught me, it's respect for dissent and critical thinking. I'm seeing a lot of that here, and I think it's pretty damn cool, to be blunt.

Anyway, I suppose it may not really clarify anything, but I thought I'd chime in. I think Alex Jones has made a solid enough case against his own integrity, and I find no fault with the ATS admins pointing it out.

But I really love the spirit of skepticism and individuality I'm seeing in this thread, and I pray that every ATSer will draw as much inspiration from it as I have.

Please, my skeptical brothers and sisters, don't ever change.