Does the Central Limit Theorem prove a Creator/Deity?

reply to post by OldThinker


I don't think you comprehend the full extent of how big our 'known' universe is

Please, please carefully look at this picture and read the pictures from left to right, top to bottom. Only then will your appreciate how small and insignificant we truly are.

Link

btw, light takes 7 minutes to reach us from the sun and that's travelling at a speed of 186,000 MPH. Furthest planet is Pluto, which is 3,647,240,000 miles. It takes light ~5 hours to travel from the Sun to Pluto!

That's just our small little solar system, of which there are many, many more in just our galaxy. There are quite a few galaxies in our universe, if you care to look out at the night sky!

So does God bestow these unique criteria on all other solar systems???

reply to post by PrisonerOfSociety


Friend, you may as well give up now. There is no hope for OT, he's not interested in answers. Months I have been talking to him and every challenge he's ever offered has been either beaten or just plain illogical. You can't win in an argument with someone who doesn't know the rules.

In fact, OT is now ignoring me and all my rebuttals and refutations, pretending that he has something when it's consistently shown to be bankrupt of substance.

MORE! And what about our SLOWING rotation? And our unique radiation shield? Could it be protecting us? And our CRUST, heck 'pizza' hut's' jealous. Why JUST earth? hm? more:

Slowing rotation makes advanced life possibleThe moon has had other beneficial affects on the earth. Scientists now know that the earth originally had a rotational period of eight hours. Such a rapid rotational period would have resulted in surface wind velocities in excess of 500 miles per hour. The gravitational tug of the moon over the last 4+ billion years has reduced the rotation period of the earth to 24 hours (likewise, the gravitational attraction of the earth on the moon has reduced its rotational period to 29 days). Needless to say, winds of 500 miles per hour would not be conducive to the existence of higher life forms (coincidence or design?).

Van-Allen radiation shield is unique to EarthAnother fortuitous result of the collision of the Mars-sized planet with the Earth is the presence of the Earth's large and heavy metallic core. In fact, the Earth has the highest density of any of the planets in our Solar System. This large nickel-iron core is responsible for our large magnetic field. This magnetic field produces the Van-Allen radiation shield, which protects the Earth from radiation bombardment. If this shield were not present, life would not be possible on the Earth. The only other rocky planet to have any magnetic field is Mercury - but its field strength is 100 times less than the Earth's. Even Venus, our sister planet, has no magnetic field. The lack of a magnetic field on Venus is thought to have resulted in the planet losing virtually all of its water through stripping by the solar wind (see Venus: Express dispatches from Nature). For more information on the magnetosphere, see NASA's What is the Magnetosphere? and Space Weather on Mars. The Van-Allen radiation shield is a design unique to the Earth (coincidence or design?).

Unique continental crust and tectonic activityRecent evidence tells us that the earth is unique in many ways, even compared to the other rocky planets in our Solar System. In a recent study (3), Dr. Roberta Rudnick says that the earth has a unique continental crust, which is different from any other planet in our Solar System (even Venus, our "sister planet"). The mechanisms which resulted in this unique continental crust is not entirely certain as she stated, "Perhaps the greatest dilemma facing those interested in understanding how the continents formed is their composition." However, the earth's crust is much thinner (4 km) than that of Venus (30 km). Tectonic processes cannot happen with such thick plates. If most of the crust of the earth had not been blown away during the formation of the moon, the earth would have no continents, but would be completely covered by water (see The Moon And Plate Tectonics: Why We Are Alone from spacedaily.com). The tectonic processes which recycle the crust are extremely important in maintaining life on our planet by recycling minerals and nutrients (coincidence or design?).

All other earth-sized planets will be either deserts or waterworldsScientists now know that planets like the earth, with large amounts of both water and land, are virtually impossible to form. Large planets do not form continents because the increased gravity prevents significant mountain and continent formation. Earth-sized planets completely flood, and any land formed is eroded by the seas in a short period of time (in the absence of tectonic activity, which results only from the effects of the formation of the moon). Smaller planets lack tectonic activity, so would have no land masses, but would be completely covered with water. According to Dr. Nick Hoffman of La Trobe University, Melbourne Australia:

"Around countless stars in our galaxy, and innumerable galaxies through space there will surely be Terrestrial planets, yet they will not be Earth-like. They will not have glistening Silver Moons orbiting silently through space around them, but only small dull rocks whizzing in orbit. The worlds will be, almost without exception, waterworlds." (Venus - What the Earth would have been like from spacedaily.com) link:www.godandscience.org...

reply to post by Welfhard


I agree.

I think religious people have a switch flipped in their head where all reason and tangible evidence means nothing. They just quote crappy scripture, as if that means the answers were written in some cryptic text thousands of years ago, by someone called Geoff (or whatever).

I also think that people with religion pumping through their blood, see themselves as vain, self-important entities and their mission is to bring others to their God-like wisdom. Comparable to people who seek fame on X-factor, as they crave for attention from strangers.

I see humanity as specks of sand on an infinite beach; we are easily blown away by the winds of time. We are just passengers in a journey to the unknown. We need to get off this bloody planet asap, to fully exploit the true nature of humanity...curiosity and exploration.

Originally posted by PrisonerOfSociety
reply to post by OldThinker

 

I don't think you comprehend the full extent of how big our 'known' universe is

POS, I do, really....

take 9 minutes and look here: www.youtube.com...

OT gets it!

I am so glad you brought it up!!!!

Let me know what you think, ok?

OT

reply to post by OldThinker


OT, i don't think you even read other peoples posts. Perhaps you're trolling your own thread to get hits. Will you get an invite to the pearly gates if you hit page 50?

Also, you keep on using the word 'unique'. What makes you think Earth is unique?

May i ask you a question OT? Do you think there is any life in the universe / multiverse, besides us dirty humans?

reply to post by OldThinker


Excellent points OT. One would have to be a moron to not see the perfect intelligence behind the creation of the Universe.

Everyone....did you know that God does not send anyone to Hell?
That's right....people send themselves to Hell for rejecting the Son of God.
See....you are responsible for where you go....not Him!

He gives you a choice, and you pick.

reply to post by PrisonerOfSociety


OT struggles with the idea that earth is not unique, that is his whole premise. Even when forced to face facts, he sill can't get it through his head.

Can you do me a favour, can you ask OT if he's put me on ignore, because I think he may have.

Originally posted by PrisonerOfSociety
reply to post by OldThinker

 

OT, i don't think you even read other peoples posts. Perhaps you're trolling your own thread to get hits. Will you get an invite to the pearly gates if you hit page 50?

Also, you keep on using the word 'unique'. What makes you think Earth is unique?

May i ask you a question OT? Do you think there is any life in the universe / multiverse, besides us dirty humans?

Since April?

Have you seen how to find a PROFILE? Mine's there...I'm not about points/hits/etc....


Been on here since 05, my friend. If I've offended you, I'm sorry, did I miss something?

did you see the 9 min vid?

OT

Originally posted by John Matrix
.......He gives you a choice, and you pick.

Hey John!!!


Glad you joined!


"without excuse" huh? Romans 1:20 is SOOOOOO scarry, IF you are on the wrong side??????

OT

I watched the video, but there was no closure as to what his point was, other than comparing star sizes. Did i miss the point of what he was saying? Did he say God created those stars.

Sorry about the hit count accusation.

Have you put Welfhard on ignore btw?

Originally posted by PrisonerOfSociety
reply to post by Welfhard

 

.....I think religious people have a switch flipped in their head where all reason and tangible evidence means nothing.......

Where have I missed REASON and TANGIBLE EVIDENCE? Please understand OT's not going anywhere, sorry for being confrontational...

But my position is SECURE....

SETTLED....

CONFIDENT...

My savior has revealed GRACE to me.....for more yrs that your been on the "priviledge" earth...

LISTEN, pls! OT's not trying to WIN, over you...BEAT you in an argument, ETC ETC....

I am a messenger, plain and simple.....

Here's the CRUX....

Believe me or don't...ok?

OT out!

reply to post by PrisonerOfSociety


oh that's ok....

And think about the SIZE/DISTANCE........between........!!!!!!


Yet all energies are focused on earth...odd huh?

Also....who was JC? to you? Maybe he was a liar?

That really is a logical option…please read on…

First of all, the longer I live the more I realize I don't know. Life is a bit more complicated than I thought it would be when I was in my 20/30's. I am a Christian, by that I mean I have chosen to believe that I am imperfect and needed His intervention.

I have come to this conclusion primarily upon LOGIC, not faith. Faith is one of those enigma's in today's vocabulary that has lost its meaning or has been interpreted differently by so many. My journey to this conclusion has a few factors that I will share with the forum/thread.



Point 1 ---- Again before I go on I will try and be LOGIC-based and not bring in a bunch of Christian-eze mumbo jumbo.

Remember Back to the Future and the Delorian (sp?) Imagine if you were Micheal J Fox and someone asked you to go to five (only 5) different time zones/geographical areas and meet one person in each time zone/area and ask them, "please write a book about God, I'll be back in 5 years to collect it."

Five years later you went and picked up the five books. Logically speaking what are the chances those five books would agree? What are the chances those five books would build upon one another? What are the chances you could make any semblance out of them...to live by or the like? Snowballs in your know where, right?

Different people! Different cultures! Difference Time frames! Different Premises! Different World view! etc...

Logically speaking you would have five unconnected books with five different perspectives, right?

Well, the Bible (torah, prophets, gospels, epistles, revelation) are not 5 books by five authors, but 66 books by 40 authors...who did not know one another, did not live in the same town, did not live in the same time line...authors were of every occupation and financial status........yet......the Bible is a one-themed, continuing story.

Doesn't prove it God's Word yet though...just something that might warrant another look.

Point 2 ---- Here's an undisputable fact (I believe at least after examining) Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be God, his followers claimed He claimed to be God...and...non Christian journalist (such as Josephus) claimed He claimed he was God. Doesn't appear here to be different agendas going on. He said it, His followers said He said it, third parties said He said it and even his enemies said He said it (Sanhedrin, Pharisees, etc)

SO...with all that said...we have only two LOGICAL outcomes. No religious double-talk here) Either you BELIEVE or you REJECT. Really no other options right? If you believe, then to you HE IS LORD. If you REJECT there are really only two options for you.

1) JC knew he wasn't telling the truth, therefore he would be A LIAR

2) JC didn't know he wasn't telling the truth, therefore he would be A LUNATIC.

That's the only three logical outcomes...LIAR, LUNATIC......or...... LORD. There is no room for him being a good guy and all, no room for him being a prophet as every other religion on the face of the earth calls him.

Because prophets don't lie and they are not usually in psych wards.

Point 3 ---- Most direct followers were killed for believing in JC. If they had stole his body and the Romans excused, at least one of them would have squilled just before their execution right? I would have...

but NO-All these ordinary folks were willing to die for what they saw…

Originally posted by PrisonerOfSociety
I watched the video, but there was no closure ....

oh friend yes there is....

just google louie giglio....you just saw a part of the series....

OT

Yet all energies are focused on earth...odd huh?

Eh? What do you mean?

Why did all those people die in the recent quakes? Was that God's will?

Originally posted by PrisonerOfSociety

Yet all energies are focused on earth...odd huh?

Eh? What do you mean?

Why did all those people die in the recent quakes? Was that God's will?

To the fascination and puzzlement of planet-searching astronomers, the results offer a sobering counterpoint to the flurry of planet discoveries announced over the previous months.

"This could be the first tantalizing evidence that conditions for planet formation and evolution may be fundamentally different elsewhere in the galaxy," says Mario Livio of the Space Telescope Science Institute (STScI) in Baltimore, MD.

The bold and innovative observation pushed NASA Hubble Space Telescope's capabilities to its limits, simultaneously scanning for small changes in the light from 35,000 stars in the globular star cluster 47 Tucanae, located 15,000 light-years (4 kiloparsecs) away in the southern constellation Tucana.

ex]

more: hubblesite.org...

earthquakes? i'll take that one later....sleepy, ok....thx for joining again!

reply to post by PrisonerOfSociety



more research for your study...

Two books..........Rare Earth: Why Complex Life is Uncommon in the Universe by Peter D. Ward and Donald Brownlee

A recent (2000) secular book that recognizes the improbable design of the earth. Paleontologist Peter D. Ward and astrobiologist Donald Brownlee examine the unusual characteristics of our galaxy, solar system, star, and Earth and conclude that ET may have no home to go to. Surprisingly, the authors conclude that the amazing "coincidences" are the result of good luck and chance.
link: www.amazon.com...
= = = =

The Creator and the Cosmos by Dr. Hugh Ross

A classic book for modern Christian apologetics and science, recently updated (June, 2001) with fully one third of the book updated. Dr. Ross presents the latest scientific evidence for intelligent design of our world and an easy to understand introduction to modern cosmology. This is a great book to give agnostics, who have an interest in cosmology and astronomy.
link: www.amazon.com...

Originally posted by PrisonerOfSociety
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Your source is questionable.

please know...OT's no rookie...

see here for references....sci.tech-archive.net...


here's a few...

References
Jim Holt. 1997. Science Resurrects God. The Wall Street Journal
(December 24, 1997), Dow Jones & Co., Inc.
Hoyle, F. 1982. The Universe: Past and Present Reflections. Annual
Review of Astronomy and Astrophysics: 20:16.
Ellis, G.F.R. 1993. The Anthropic Principle: Laws and Environments.
The Anthropic Principle, F. Bertola and U.Curi, ed. New York,
Cambridge University Press, p. 30.
Davies, P. 1988. The Cosmic Blueprint: New Discoveries in Nature's
Creative Ability To Order the Universe. New York: Simon and Schuster,
p.203.
Davies, P. 1984. Superforce: The Search for a Grand Unified Theory of
Nature. (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1984), p. 243.
Willford, J.N. March 12, 1991. Sizing up the Cosmos: An Astronomers
Quest. New York Times, p. B9.
Heeren, F. 1995. Show Me God. Wheeling, IL, Searchlight Publications,
p. 200.
Greenstein, G. 1988. The Symbiotic Universe. New York: William Morrow,
p.27.
Heeren, F. 1995. Show Me God. Wheeling, IL, Searchlight Publications,
p. 233

reply to post by John Matrix

Excellent points OT. One would have to be a moron to not see the perfect intelligence behind the creation of the Universe.

Everyone....did you know that God does not send anyone to Hell?
That's right....people send themselves to Hell for rejecting the Son of God.
See....you are responsible for where you go....not Him!

He gives you a choice, and you pick.

Yea, like the local council gave Arthur Dent a choice to move his house out of the way of the planed bypass.

God doesn't play fair because he asks faith of us.

There are other life forms in the Universe.....but it's not life like we have on earth, nor is it life that requires a planet to sustain it.

The only physical life in the Universe is found on earth. Until there is physical proof, that is my stand.

However, there are hyperdimensional beings. You can read lots about them in the Bible if you want to. They are called angels, sons of God, demons, fallen angels. They appear as UFO's quite often,....materialize from thin air and then disappear into thin air.....from other dimensions you see!!

Click here to read a very interesting article:
www.mt.net...